Who Is Smarter, Varys Or Littlefinger?

[Lolly's Baby Daddy]

Varys...since he is a Faceless Man

[David C. Hunter]

Varys...since he is a Faceless Man

If your serious then explain why you believe that because I am curious

[Melpomene]

I'll say Varys.

He remains incognito throughout the whole time, and is like butter - you can try to grab hold but then he will just slip away.

He is still mysterious to this day. The problem with LF now is that while he achieved something very substantial, more and more people are growing aware of his slimyness. And now he is also in a much more public eye. Whereas Varys has disapeared, and still very few people are aware of what he has done so far.

And assuming the story of his past was all authentic, it was an impressive journey - he came from being a slave, actor, thief and beggar, to creating and owning a very powerful "business" with his partner Illyrio out of the blue, to becoming a member of a KL council.

He used the power of words and knowledge to achieve his goals. He taught orphan kids how to read, write and spy, and became unfamous for his skills. He has skills in theatre. He knows how to act calming, affectionate and trustful. And inbetween seems to be smuggling a lot of royal people all over the place. He did this sort of work in a matter of a few decades. And, any chaos he created was subtle.

Whereas LF...well, he was a ward, had his heart broken, then with the help of Lysa got a job in Gullton, and made a lot of money. Then he bought some brothels. Made some more monies and made it to KL council.

One might say LF came from nothing, but Varys came from true nothing. Less than dirt, really. LF was still from a house, Varys was a slave.

Additionally, LF seems to target and manipulate those who are weaker than him. Varys will spar with anyone, regardless of skills, intelligence and status.

Not to diminish LF as he is clever in his own right, but his pursuits seem very greedy, all personal, and creating havoc for no reason whatsoever. Varys appears to have a deeper sense of maturity, self reliancy, and his burden is heavier as he is involved in a huge ass conspicary that involves a much bigger picture and a much bigger conflict. Whatever it may be, whatever version he sees of it, he is fighting on behalf of something else.

[Tetrarch42]

I feel that Littlefinger is more overt, and an opportunist. He can think on his feet and make a bad situation into a good one and keep suspicion off him. Meanwhile Varys is more of a long-term schemer, and it seems more people recognize the danger he poses, so I feel it's less about who's smarter and rather how they operate.

Interesting to consider how they turn out by the end of the series.

[Every]

They're pretty equally matched, but my money would be on Varys to come out on top.

[Tagganaro]

If LF could get castrated like Varys I'd say no question LF. But it seems as if Littlefinger's Little Finger does a lot of his thinking now, and that will most likely get him killed.

[kittenmittens]

I think that the Game of Thrones will come down to these two combatants in the end, unless there is a darker, craftier, unseen force that is vying for the crown.

[Chacho88]

i hate LF but ill give it to him, Varys can only succeed if Aegon VI wins the Iron Throne, if not then he has to hid for the rest of his life, who would take him? he disappeared the night of tywins death, so is implicated in some sort of way, as were LF well everyone knows where he is, he's becoming more powerful every day too, has more money, has more power behind him, lil as it may be, and the end of the day would u have a really good master of coin, or really good master of whisperers

[BastardBorn]

Varys, but not by much. His spy network is his own creation, as well as his relationship with Illyrio, so I don't see how his position isn't to his own credit. LF does seem quicker on his feet, but ultimately Varys will out strategize him.

[Alester Florent]

I think the suggestion that Littlefinger has all his plans invested in Sansa is to underestimate him. That does indeed seem to be his Plan A, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a Plan B, or C, or however many he needs, or that he couldn't come up with one quickly in response to changing circumstances.

It's one of the reasons why Littlefinger is so good at the Game. He's always thinking at least one move ahead of most of the other players, even those who are themselves quite competent (e.g. Tyrion). As a result he's yet to be caught off guard all series, and has yet to experience a serious setback.

[Bourne]

I don't know who's played the better game, but that doesn't necessarily make them the smarter of the two.

Littlefinger is the smartest man in Westeros.

[Chacho88]

i really hate littlefinger but really he's looking out for #1 i mean he gave Ned a chance to be on the right side, Ned didnt take it and Littlefinger knew hed end up dead with him and he stuck it out, i dont think anyone here would have done otherwise, everyones had that one person that broke their heart and would do anything to get it back, so he sees a chance with sansa i guess, who can blame him, everything he does is to make himself richer and more powerful, who wouldnt want that, most dont do it cuz they lack the skills required,

i just think his ambition to get the girl of his dreams, ruin somewhat the family that stole her away from him and get rich is what makes littlefinger better, and he's patient, most ambitious ppl go full at it and sometimes rush into a mistake, littlefingers takes his time for things to develop, he is one dangerous man

[PrinceHenryris]

I say LF. Varys has information skills, but LF has anticipation skills. He bought off one of the most dangerous men in the Vale. Then he bought up the debt of one of the proudest houses, and offered one of the best marriage offers in Westeros. Not to mention that he gained the loyalty of a cadet branch of House Royce.

I don't particularly like LF, but he knows how to play the game.

[Pope Killdragon]

Stalemate

[greywindsrage]

Littlefinger... the gods only know what game Littlefinger is playing.

I can't argue with that one. We all know what Varys is up to but Littlefinger?

[justashadow]

I have to say Varys...his knowledge is his power whereas Littlefinger uses manipulation and chess like moves to achieve his power. The problem is that sometimes the best laid plans can go wrong no matter how you have (perfectly and) strategically played the game.

[greywindsrage]

Varys only got to where he was because of his partnership with Ilyrio and his network of child-spies, without that, he'd still be successful, but not in the position he's in now. He's also currently a fugitive in hiding, with none of his plans going the way he meant them to, and Aegon likely to fail completely.

Littlefinger, on the other hand, rose from the most useless of lordships to where he is now using only his own mind and his master's degree in manipulation. That magnificent bastard.

Don't forget that Varys was a great thief who taught those children to be spies. He grew up in a much harsher environment than Littlefinger.

[danm_999]

Varys only got to where he was because of his partnership with Ilyrio and his network of child-spies, without that, he'd still be successful, but not in the position he's in now. He's also currently a fugitive in hiding, with none of his plans going the way he meant them to, and Aegon likely to fail completely.

Littlefinger, on the other hand, rose from the most useless of lordships to where he is now using only his own mind and his master's degree in manipulation. That magnificent bastard.

I can't understand this view at all. Littlefinger's lordship is rather useless on paper, but in practice it's like being in a cross country race and having a Pontiac Aztek when most people don't have shoes.

As a Lord, Littlefinger gets a full education, he never has to participate in manual labour, and his father has personal connections to Hoster Tully that means Littlefinger gets fostered in the House of one of Westeros' most powerful castles. His rise, while aided by his own merit, is based largely on his personal connections; he goes to court not because he's famously competant, but because Lysa pulls strings with Jon Arryn, who then finds him competant.

Many of his big "master manipulation" revolve around him exploiting relationships he only has because he was born into the family he was born into (example, he only tricks Ned intro trusting him against his instincts because of his relationship with Cat, he only manages to kill Jon Arryn and orchestrate the War of the Five Kings because of his relationship with Lysa).

In contrast, Varys was a eunuch slave who, with Illyrio, created their common wealth and power completely on their own, without getting any help from daddy, or without being fostered in a rich lord's home. They literally had to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Varys, unlike Littlefinger, was brought to court because he became so famous in the Free Cities Aerys heard of him and hired him.

Varys is a foreigner, and reviled as a eunuch, and couldn't bank on any childhood relationships with great lords and ladies as leverage, yet has survived through Aerys, Robert and Joffrey's reigns.

To finish, I'll say that it's ridiculous to believe none of Varys plans are going the way he meant them to; given the detailed instructions he gave Tyrion to find the Tower of the Hand, meaning he wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin, and it was always part of his plan to dissapear from public life. Not to mention, he's pre-planted the Gold coin from the Reach in Rugen's cell (likely his double identity) to further his plan; set Cersei against the Tyrells.

Meanwhile, Littlefinger likely has no idea he's just hired Ser Shadrich, a knight looking for Sansa for Cersei, at the Gates of the Moon.

[Flig]

I think that the Game of Thrones will come down to these two combatants in the end, unless there is a darker, craftier, unseen force that is vying for the crown.

Enter Darkstar.

[Pope Killdragon]

I can't understand this view at all. Littlefinger's lordship is rather useless on paper, but it's like being in a cross country race and having a Pontiac Aztek when most people don't have shoes.

As a Lord, Littlefinger gets a full education, he never has to participate in manual labour, and his father has personal connections to Hoster Tully that means Littlefinger gets fostered in the House of one of Westeros' most powerful castles. His rise, while aided by his own merit, is based largely on his personal connections; he goes to court not because he's famously competant, but because Lysa pulls strings with Jon Arryn, who then finds him competant.

Many of his big "master manipulation" revolve around him exploiting relationships he only has because he was born into the family he was born into (example, he only tricks Ned intro trusting him against his instincts because of his relationship with Cat, he only manages to kill Jon Arryn and orchestrate the War of the Five Kings because of his relationship with Lysa).

In contrast, Varys was a eunuch slave who, with Illyrio, created their common wealth and power completely on their own, without getting any help from daddy, or without being fostered in a rich lord's home. They literally had to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Varys, unlike Littlefinger, was brought to court because he became so famous in the Free Cities Aerys heard of him and hired him.

Varys is a foreigner, and reviled as a eunuch, and couldn't bank on any childhood relationships with great lords and ladies as leverage, yet has survived through Aerys, Robert and Joffrey's reigns.

To finish, I'll say that it's ridiculous to believe none of Varys plans are going the way he meant them to; given the detailed instructions he gave Tyrion to find the Tower of the Hand, meaning he wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin, and it was always part of his plan to dissapear from public life. Not to mention, he's pre-planted the Gold coin from the Reach in Rugen's cell (likely his double identity) to further his plan; set Cersei against the Tyrells.

Meanwhile, Littlefinger likely has no idea he's just hired Ser Shadrich, a knight looking for Sansa for Cersei, at the Gates of the Moon.

I change my mind Varys wins.