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About Tagganaro

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    I know SUN TZU hrurrr jizz everywhre.

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  1. You're quoting from before Jon enters and combines both Mallister and Pyke votes, and considering the very thing you quote mentions that 2/3s are needed to become LC, that shows Jon won by a pretty handy majority right? I think Mallister/Pyke had near 400 combined while Janos was like 150, but I'm guessing there were a few like Othell Yarwyck who decides not to vote for Janos once Jon entered. I'd guess Jon had something like 450 while Janos was at 125, but that's a total guess and I have no idea if that lines up with the number of NW brothers there. But yeah, at least 2/3s is not really close is it?
  2. This is a rather large assumption...what other men are stupid enough to so openly disobey their own commanding officer? And when would these other men do something like that? The difference is not that Slynt murdered Jon's father, it's that he's a complete idiot who dug his own grave. It's not a direct parallel, it's actually the opposite. Did Slynt kill Ned himself? Did he swing the sword? Yes, Jon's father is on his mind because Jon looks up to him. Just like Robb. When Robb killed Karstark was he fantasizing about revenge for Ned? Or was he just passing the sentence on as he was taught to by Ned, like the rest of the Stark children. It seems to me that Jon is acting exactly as a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch should act when one of his officers flat-out disobeys an order and forces Jon to "kill the boy." Wait, so @Ran gives you a quote from Jon's own thoughts saying that he hoped Slynt came to his senses and this is what you're arguing? No responsibility for Slynt forcing Jon's hand? This is exactly how the book describes it. Jon has given Slynt every reasonable opportunity here to fulfill his orders. The Night's Watch is not some tea party bro hangout, it's a military order where recruits lives are forfeit in service of a cause. Even in today's modern world an officer disobeying a commanding lawful order is subject to dishonorable discharge and confinement for multiple years. In the Night's Watch, there is no "discharge" and there is no prolonged confinment that we know of. Because Jon likes to think everything through? Because Jon has already thought to himself that he doesn't want to do this and is looking for a way out, but realizes there is no alternative? Wow, seems like we are just reading different books. That's actually exactly what his thought process suggests to me and it appears several others. I don't quite understand why in your view Slynt has no accountability for his actions at all, and why Jon is supposed to coddle him in a world where that is uncommon to say the least. Jon thinks to himself "geez, I hope Slynt obeys and I think of him as a brother despite our personal history, he must have some ability to lead people hence why i'm putting him in charge of a fortress which is super important to me and the Night's Watch and something I usually reserve for friends." Then Jon goes out and gives Slynt multiple opportunities to obey this simple and reasonable order, thinking all the while "I hope he obeys me" and you're reading Jon fantasizing about and enjoying and planning on Slynt's murder? Again, to each his own I guess but I don't see that at all when I read that.
  3. He didn't include taking no part in the politics of the realm either in the vow, but it's still important. It's a military organization, of course you have to have a chain of command and with presumably 997+ previous LCs, you would think it'd be pretty important to have one. I know you're trying to make a point, but c'mon now. This is silly. There is obviously no comparison between Jon giving a perfectly reasonable order to a subordinate and what the Night's King was doing. Marsh's reaction makes nothing plain. He has a shall we say "vested interest" in Slynt's well-being considering that they both plotted together previously and that Marsh for all his tough talk about Jon taking sides is motivated by fear of the Crown. Of course he's gonna react that way when Jon kills Slynt. Besides, lets look at all the other reactions to Jon's sentence. We're not told of one person who speaks up and says "This is wrong. The LC can't do this. There should be a trial." This despite the fact that there are many Slynt supporters eating with him in the Hall. Not one of Jon's men hesitates either. Because you know why? Slynt done F'ed up and there's nothing anyone can say in his defense here. I agree with this 100%. IT is Jon's call as LC, just like it was Mormont's call before him whether to punish Jon more severely or not. Jon chose to punish Slynt more severely, and knowing everything we do about him among the 100's of decisions Jon has made that should be questioned, this does not seem like one of them. I agree on this as well. Jon certainly respects Mormont and I think the fact that Marsh served him well swayed Jon. Also I will give credit to Marsh, he went up to Jon straight after he was elected and offered to serve him- good way to win Jon over. And Marsh and Thorne, unlike Slynt, at least knew the rotten ice they walked on and didn't dare disobey a direct order from Jon and give him a reason to kill them. Heck, I think Thorne says that exact same thing to Jon when Jon is sending him away on a ranging. Because Slynt gave Jon a perfect reason to kill him because he's an idiot.
  4. Yeah, pretty doubtful to me Blackfish was telling the truth there. While not present for Robb's will, I'd still think as one of Robb's closest advisors Blackfish would be aware of his plans. Either way, I'm not sure I ever would buy Cat talking about Jon anyway, and especially moreso than Robb who would only have kind things to say. Also a bit suspicious that basically the 2 most high-ranking Tully men after Edmure take the Black when given a chance.
  5. Tagganaro

    Was Tywin Lannister a villain?

    This. Tywin is a monster with clear tendencies towards sexual violence and humiliation. The Tysha issue is not a one-time thing- Elia Martell and Tytos's mistress are other examples of this. And I know he didn't personally rape Elia, but his unconvincing "you can't blame me for my henchmen's activity" is completely absurd- he could easily remedy this by punishing Gregor and making it clear this behavior was unacceptable, but instead Tywin implicitly supports this and by extension, Gregor's future monstrous behavior.
  6. Everyone knows his credentials- yet they vote against him to become LC. Jon knows his credentials- it's specifically why he chose him to command at Greyguard. Jon could have decided to keep him at Castle Black- although I'd question what exactly you think Jon should have had him doing there (he's not suited to being a steward or builder and doesn't really seem like much of a ranger either). I'd argue that assuming Slynt's "experience policing and keeping order" is valuable and, you know actually existent, then Jon is doing the right thing utilizing those skills by putting him in command of Greyguard where he can actually exercise those skills, unlike at Castle Black. True..she planned on Kettleblack to do that. This would be great if a) Slynt would actually tell the Lannisters to send troops to help and b) the Lannisters would actually comply with this request. We are given little reason to believe either one of these things could ever happen, assuming things as they are that Jon won the LC vote and Slynt didn't. Fair but again, this assumes that both Slynt and the Lannisters would be cooperative with Jon post-Jon's election, which does not seem very possible based on what the books give us.
  7. What @Cas Stark just said. Furthermore, he was under no obligation to give misleading updates. There is nothing really vague about "I think [TWOW] will be out this year."
  8. Speaking for myself, I am angry. As mentioned by numerous people, it doesn't seem as if we will ever get an end to this series that I love. Which disappoints me rather than angers me to be fair. What angers me is what was mentioned by @T and A and @Cas Stark above. It's the feeling that whether GRRM has intentionally lied or misled us or unintentionally done the same, he's still done just that. I can't help but feel he's been less than honest in his numerous statements over the past 7 or so years that he thought he could finish TWOW by so-and-so date, only to have that date pass then reveal that he's essentially no closer to finishing than he was before. It certainly appears to me as if he has no intention or desire of ever finishing this, which leaves me disappointed (and angry) to say the very least. Yeah, I feel like these points are sailing close to the wind...I'd rather no updates at all or for him to just honestly say I can't give you any updates than for him to consistently seem to suggest "I think it will be out next year" which he's basically been saying for 3+ years now. But again, a lot of these are just personal feelings and we as readers may just disagree on how we feel about them.
  9. Just caught this as leaving the thread. The hilarious thing is that we have Jon's own thoughts and POV on Janos as this is happening. Jon really thinks he is extending an olive branch here and treating Janos impartially, that is his subjective intent. Now it's possible Jon is internally biased and we are witnessing that, but look at this objectively. Despite every attempt by Janos to be insubordinate to his LC which is a no-no, Jon is offering him his own command of a separate fortress...Jon does not do this to his enemies, indeed he puts his friends in charge of other fortresses on the Wall which makes perfect sense since he needs to be able to trust his "blind-side" so to speak. And again, we have Jon's own thoughts on this. He specifically disavows a personal motive here, and thinks that Janos must have some skills in command and leadership as he rose to head of the Gold Cloaks.
  10. oh hey, another Jon trolling thread . Thanks for you reasonable response summing everything up, it will now be ignored by a bunch of pissed-off Jon haters. Anyway, great post, couldn't have said it better myself.
  11. Yeah, instead of ACOK coming out 1 year later it came out 2 years later. I'd settle for that again. And yeah, you'll get no argument from me that starting with Book 4, or I should say post-Book 3 is when all these issues began. Predictions/expectations/hopes kind of blend together unfortunately, but at the end of the day it's not too relevant. All that matters is that he can finish the book. I mean, even assuming that people are convinced he won't finish the series, which I have to admit I am at this point, how can't you understand people being angry about? Speaking for myself I love this series and this story and I think it's reasonable to expect an end to it. Not getting that is pretty disappointing to say the least.
  12. Tagganaro

    Did the BWB doubt Joffery's legitimacy prior to LSH?

    I guess I'm unclear as to what you're actually trying to argue here...you have made numerous statements about the "hypocritical" nature of the Brotherhood for claiming to be King's men while fighting against the King's heirs. In response, you've argued against numerous statements not just by me but by others saying that there really isn't much hypocrisy since the Brotherhood is mainly concerned with protecting the smallfolk and doesn't care about taking sides. So which is it? Seems like you're trying to have it both ways. Since you are asking for quotes from you, here goes: As has been argued, they don't care abou the crown's war effort nor should they if they are primarily concerned with protecting smallfolk. So do you believe they are not concerned with protecting smallfolk? Ser Gregor is one of the biggest monsters in the 7 Kingdoms and has been tasked with setting the Riverlands (primarily its smallfolk) on fire and killing everyone. We see him do just that in ACOK. How can the Brotherhood protect the smallfolk and support Ser Gregor at the same time? I've bolded this part, because again you are trying to have it both ways it seems. Either the Brotherhood primarily wants to protect the smallfolk or it doesn't...I still fail to see the hypocrisy here in them saying they are King's men because the King is dead...they are really just saying they don't have a side.
  13. Tagganaro

    Did the BWB doubt Joffery's legitimacy prior to LSH?

    Do you really need me to cite all the instances in this thread where you've said the BWB were hypocrites because they were "aiding" the Starks (which they weren't). Here's one instance: What are you trying to say here if not that they're hypocrites for using Robert's name because they are working against the King's heirs...but as pointed out numerous times, that is not their mission at this point. It is to protect smallfolk, and they are punishing Northmen almost as much as Westermen. You keep asserting that they had already decided the Hound's guilt before the trial began because Thoros said the Hound is guilty because he's a Clegane...this may or may not be true, we don't know, but the way the scene unfolds it is clear that he is on trial for killiing Mycah so I don't know why you keep asserting this and why it is relevant. It is not what happens. I don't think we disagree on this one. Like I've been saying, they have become less honorable as the books have gone on. Do I need to quote you again? Here's what you just said above: As I've been saying, this is not what happens. They don't immediately hang him as they are willing to do for Brienne, Pod, Hyle, etc. And they don't even end up murdering him at all. You keep focusing in on what they want to do- you may or may not be right. But that is not what happens. I don't know what you're arguing here. He is very clearly accused of murdering Mycah, a fact which you seem to agree with. ok? So what does this mean? Would you argue the Brotherhood hasn't changed at all from ASOS to AFFC? No I didn't; I asked; And I will again answer that we don't know what they wanted to do, and why that is so important to you, if they didn't actually end up doing it. So what are we arguing about here? Ok, that is what I've been saying. Again, maybe? Maybe not? You are reading desires into stuff that is not expressed, I am merely stating what actually happened. You may be right...but this is very specifically not what happened as you've admitted already. He was put on trial for Mycah's murder, not the murders committed by his brother as they wanted to do.
  14. Tagganaro

    Arya and Roose

    I'm not sure that makes any sense. If he had any suspicion of "Weasel" being Arya, he would have kept an armed guard around her 100% of the time. She'd be an extremely valuable piece, especially with the Red Wedding coming up.
  15. It's really crazy to look back at all his "predictions" on when TWOW would be done. In 2012 he said he thought he could finish in 2014. In 2015, he claimed he had " a lot of pages done" in TWOW and that he wanted to get the book out by April 2016. Then beginning of 2017 he's saying he thinks it will be done by the end of the year. It's clear he either can't or won't write the book. Either he has lost interest or can't get out of the Mereeneese Knot. At this point not only am I doubting we will ever see ADOS but also TWOW.