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About Tagganaro

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    I know SUN TZU hrurrr jizz everywhre.

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  1. Tagganaro

    Do you like Feast and Dance?

    I agree with this so much. I can appreciate AFFC a little more on reread, but I'm still mostly just bored by it. The 22 chapters you mentioned are for the most part completely uninteresting to me (I'd say out of them, only the King's Moot really captured by attention). The Brienne stuff I liked a lot more on reread, but that's not saying much. I went from actively hating it to just being mostly bored by it. And don't get me started on Aeron, Arys and Aereo even having POVs. ADWD is much more enjoyable for me because the Dany, Jon, Theon chapters are really good and although the Tyrion stuff can drag at times, I really enjoyed his time with Jon Con and Aegon and it ends with a bang with him joining the Second Sons. I do have to knock down ADWD because it doesn't get to the battles of Mereen and Winterfell, and instead wastes too much time on Quentyn, Areo (only 1 POV I think but still annoying), Victarion (I enjoyed these chapters but still think pointless), Barristan and Jon Con.
  2. Tagganaro

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    I don't think they were "lost" after running out of book material, nor do I think the show was "so bad." But to each his own. I think the final season was sloppy and rushed, and overall disappointing, but I was still thoroughly entertained by it and still think it was among the best TV I've seen this year (I'd put Episode 2 of this season as a top 5, if not top 3 all-time personally for the show). And I had my issues with Season 7 as well but it's still largely considered to be among the best seasons, not to mention Season 6 is widely considered to be one of the best. So it's not like they were completely lost after running out of book material, just that I think S 8 in particular was very rushed and sloppy. I mean, they had her kill Missandei and send Bronn after Jaime and Tyrion, as well as the stuff with Euron. It wasn't ideal to say the least, but it was much better than whatever the hell they were doing with the Night King. But yes, I obviously agree that she was largely wasted in Season 8. I will repeat that I think it's unfair to expect the show to do something that simply wouldn't be entertaining nor would it fill any time. I don't understand why we would differentiate popular based on whether they are loved or hated- either way the character is still popular. Not that it's dispositive, but pretty much any list of the best characters on GOT will have Cersei top 5 and if you asked anybody who was the best villain on GOT they'd say Cersei hands-down. From that perspective, I think it's easy to understand why they kept her around.
  3. Tagganaro

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    This may be true or not, but I think it's sort of unfair. This may be "logical" but it's not entertaining. I've said this before, but showrunners were kind of held hostage by Lena Heady and Cersei. She was too popular and too good in that role for them to kill her off when they probably should have. As a result, they had to plan for her to be one of the final villians, and Dany just easily dispatching of her with no battle would not have made for good TV. Beyond that, I also think the show never really knew what to do with the dragons- they were overpowered or completely nerfed depending on the situation. It's tough to reconcile Rhaegal being easily killed by a few crossbows on moving ships while Drogon is able to completely annihilate both those same ships plus all the wall-mounted crossbows at KL without ever being in any danger. I was referring to mad more from a "mad king" POV, in terms of burning KL. I honestly think Dany's story had it gotten more time would have been very good- the idea of her so badly wanting to be perceived as a hero, doing the heroic thing helping to save the realm from the NK, only to have her watch all her closest allies die and watch as the remaining ones pick Jon over her is pretty awful. I think with just a few more episodes after Winterfell exploring her increasing anger, paranoia, and desperation could have done wonders. Instead, like most of the past 2 seasons, it was insanely rushed. I can't really disagree with this. I think it was overall very sloppy and there were too many loose threads, plus missed opportunities at the end (I think the finale and the Battle of Winterfell were both way too simple and straight-forward and was disappointed by the lack of any real twists, it felt a bit perfunctory IMO). I will say however that I cut the showrunners a little more slack, I think they were put in an impossible situation as well as being just burnt out from the whole thing. Part of me can look back and wish HBO had said no when D & D asked for the shorter seasons to wrap it up and brought in some new fresh faces and minds. But of course I can understand why that didn't happen.
  4. Tagganaro

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    Of course, I'm not talking about what Dany eventually did. She became an outright mad villain. Again, I can't quite remember what Jon said back in Season 7, but it was something along the lines of "showing up with your dragons to burn cities is more of the same." Of course, burning the red keep wouldn't be burning a city, but it's fair to assume there would be some blurring of the lines there as a surgical operation like that would require there to be no resistance or reaction to a dragon suddenly showing up. After Jon says that, we see Dany decide against it and instead attack in the "loot train battle" (btw, the dumbest battle name ever ). I think again, Dany in S7 is really into the idea of being a hero, and even in S8 assumes she will be welcomed like a hero to KL. In my opinion, there was a good story to tell with respect to Dany's descent into madness, it was just insanely rushed.
  5. Tagganaro

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    I think the final 2 seasons you could really see the strain this series was placing on D & D. I don't think they really wanted to do it anymore, hence cutting down the episode orders to bare minimum levels when they needed 10+. I get it though...I don't think D & D are nearly the idiots they are painted out to be, just think they got overwhelmed with this insanely complex source material and two years isn't really that long when you think about it in comparison to GRRM taking 10 years to write a single book. I'll always feel a bit sympathetic for them beyond all the awards they've won and money they've made from this, I do honestly believe they only wanted to and signed up to adapt GRRM's works and then got stuck up a creek without a paddle when GRRM stopped writing at a reasonable pace. The Starbucks and production errors really are crazy...I wonder if due to all the potential spoilers they really cut down on the amount of people who could see the finished product and that played into it, with only a few people being able to spot errors like that. I don't think it was that insane that Dany didn't roll up to KL, she wanted to and then Jon talked her out of it by appealing to her wanting to be a hero and different from other rulers. But yeah, the wight hunt was without a doubt the dumbest thing the show ever did. Season 7 was really written on a house of cards with that concept.
  6. agreed. The wildlings hate Craster, I think it was even Tormund who said to Mance that he doesn't understand why Mance doesn't chop Craster's head off. Craster is neither a wildling or a NW- they both hate him but barely tolerate him due to his limited usefulness. And yes, I don't think that even had the wildlings attempted to treat with the NW and told them about the Others, it would change anything. The NW would not believe them until they saw for themselves at the Fist of the First Men, they would have no reason to believe them and no reason to ally.
  7. Tagganaro

    Was the Red Wedding inevitable?

    I honestly don't think there is a Red Wedding if Robb doesn't marry Jeyne. As hopeless as the situation may have been, the Red Wedding itself was a brutal response to the very particular insult of Robb breaking the marriage contract. There were many other mitigating factors that may have led to some sort of Frey betrayal of Robb, but I think if we're just focused on the Red Wedding itself it doesn't happen if Robb doesn't marry Jeyne.
  8. Tagganaro

    What was the point of r+l=j

    I can't agree with this at all. Jon's Targ heritage is the reason for everyone thinking he could be King in the first place and it is explicitly mentioned by everyone as the main reason. Sansa, for all her hate for Dany, doesn't think of putting Jon on the Throne instead until she finds out about his Targ heritage. Tyrion and Varys similarly don't start debating this until they find out from Sansa (they even discuss it earlier in the season but just in the context of marrying Dany and Jon). T I also disagree with the show not setting up that only Targs can ride a dragon- Unless I'm forgetting Jon and Dany were the only ones to ever do so on the show, and Jon didn't until after his identity was revealed. That kind of speaks for itself no?
  9. Tagganaro

    Jon killing Dany doesn’t work for me

    Perhaps I'm misreading, but isn't the point that she is "mad", and not necessarily just mad as in angry, but insane? Of course her argument is wrong, she is insane in that moment. She's trying to justify something that in her mind she has no real way of justifying. And Jon in that conversation is trying to see where her head is at. He has conflicted feelings about killing her and wants her to show him that there's still some good in there, maybe show extreme remorse over what she did. But he doesn't get that. Instead she shows this flat and meaningless "justification" that proves she doesn't feel real remorse. Then not only that but Dany makes it worse by promising more violence and insanity (you can see Jon's face kind of drop once she says "I know what is right" and "it doesn't matter what other people think is right" ((paraphrasing)). I think again the major problem here comes before Dany goes mad...there was just not nearly enough work done to establish it well enough. But the things that come afterwards make sense to me.
  10. Tagganaro

    I really like what Drogon did but...

    Have to agree that this was a major stretch for Drogon to be this smart and understanding. I really like this idea as making the most sense: and that because the Iron Throne was nearest to him it created this beautiful symbolic moment of closing out Dany's story. But I am skeptical that the writers intended this, whether we can read it that way or not. I think they wanted Drogon to suddenly be this intelligent because it created this moment and they worked backwards from there, as they have shown a propensity to do that over the years of working backwards from moments and not really caring about how much sense it makes.
  11. Tagganaro

    What was the point of r+l=j

    I understand the expectation for more out of the R + L =J, but I also don't understand this idea that it was somehow irrelevant to the story. It wasn't just about Dany being Mad Queen- it was important for Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, Varys, and Bran's stories as well. This information was central to all their characters throughout this season. But I can agree also with the aspect of expecting a little bit more out of this- I think it kind of hurt Jon's overall story to have Arya kill the NK and to not have Jon sit the Throne at all. As far as coming up with an alternative narrative to tell this story, I do struggle a bit with the final episode. Having that huge moment where Jon kills Dany, it's a bit of a letdown to have it skip weeks ahead with Grey Worm simply capturing Jon (also a bit of a narrative leap to have Grey Worm massacring people in the streets for Dany and then just being calm and cool and imprisoning Jon rather than killing him afterwards). Part of me wonders if it would have been better if Jon through his Targ heritage could control Drogon after killing Dany, use Drogon and his heritage to disband the Dothraki and Unsullied and send Grey Worm off to Naath, then voluntarily relinquish the Throne. But that also robs Dany and Drogon a bit of their agency and their final moments so it's tough- I get that the writers had trouble with this aspect of things.
  12. I wouldn't go quite that far- I do believe they had a story to tell and quite a good one at that, they just didn't have the necessary amount of time to do so. I think looking back the showrunners may regret their decision to limit Seasons 7 and 8 to so few episodes- I think with one or two more episodes and a couple more scenes this could have been established a lot better. This is fine, and we can argue whether it is better or not, but this is simply not the story they were trying to tell. They didn't want this to be redeemable (and perhaps that was GRRM's directive as well) and they didn't want there to be excuses to be made. They didn't want this to be anything Dany could come back from, so there were no "loopholes" like she went mad with grief from watching Missandei die during the battle or she just meant to burn the red keep but it spiraled out of control.
  13. Tagganaro

    Praise without Repercussion, Final Edition

    I liked a lot of the episode and the season. I read a review that used a phrase I liked (paraphrasing): The episode was much like the rest of Season 8, full of poignant moments mixed with headscratching decisions. As for what I liked as the OP asks for, I thought the Jon/Dany stuff played very well. I adored the shot of Drogon flying up with his wings behind Dany and loved Clarke's acting in that final scene with Jon, showing both delusional hope for reconciling and extreme vulnerability at the same time. I also thought some of the comedy played really well: Shout-out to a perfect use of Edmure and the small council scene with Tyrion trying to tell his joke about the brothel. Finally, loved Brienne filling in Jaime's entry in the Kingsguard book and Sansa's ending as the QITN.
  14. Tagganaro

    Destiny of Jon Snow

    I mean if you really think about it there is no need for the NW anymore since the wildlings are completely integrated and free to come south of the Wall and there are no more Others so there is no purpose for the NW. I wish there was a quick explanation for what that meant but those wishes have been unfulfilled all season . Personally I read his "exile" as a bit of a gift to Jon while also appeasing Grey Worm a little bit at least enough for him to not seek revenge. I don't think he was deserting anything by heading north with the wildlings since there was nothing for him to do at the Wall. In that sense the "exile" kind of functions as self-imposed and the best possible outcome for Jon, who after killing Dany and all the stuff that went down was a broken man. The best he could hope for is to hang out with Ghost and Tormund.
  15. Tagganaro

    Possible explanation to "Dany gate"

    That's what I like about it too...they could have had Missandei or Rhaegal die leading directly to Dany snapping, but that wasn't the story they were trying to tell. I get that people are angry over this, which comes down primarily to the rushed nature of these past couple years IMO, but I don't think it was out of character or anything. Again, they just needed a couple more episodes with a couple more scenes to show Dany's continuing and worsening isolation, paranoia, and rage to really pull this off as well as they could have.