Stannis' Sellswords? (Possible Spoilers)

[Third World King]

1 - Unproven, moving on

Stannis has aged far rapidly in the last few years, all due to Mel's sorcery. It's only a matter of time before his lifeforce is extinguished, if he continues to keep company with that red witch.

2 - Dorne can only raise about 25,000 men. Doran states that they have been overstating their strength for years to keep the other kingdoms fearful. 50,000 spears they may have, but they only have 25,000 men to hold them. They will need to develop a new style of fighting where each man holds two spears.

Where did you get the idea that Dorne has only 25 000 spears?

3 - The North will only accept a Stark as their RULER. If the ruler of House Stark chooses to swear fealty to the King on the Iron Throne the rest of the North will follow. Ned did so and the rest of the North followed, Robb declared independance and the rest of the North followed. the North takes its cue from house Stark.

I highly doubt Rickon will submit to Stannis, and march the North to war in the South as his brother Robb did. The North got a battle coming their way from an enemy far more threatening than the Lannisters or Tyrells combined, in the white-walkers.

4 - They dont like Stannis because he is not like his brothers, but they are loyal to the name Baratheon. The problem is things are so screwed up with that name. Also if Robert had given Storms End to Stannis as was his right, they may have grown more loyal to him. Not because they would like him better but because they would not have known Renlys style of lordship. One way or another, I dont think they will accept a Targaryen after all they have done.

The Stormlands will favor anyone other than Stannis. They know the justice Stannis is likely to dish out to them should he win this war, so they will likely back anyone with a greater claim to the crown than Stannis. Unlike his brother, Stannis does not know how to make friends out of enemies. All he knows is how to burn or hang "traitors". Also, Stannis didn't do himself any favors by burning the weirwood trees in favor of his god of light (religion seems to have a great influence on the Iron Throne).

6 - A pretender? He isnt a pretender, he was the heir to the Iron throne by all the laws of Westeros. The Riverlands are essentially a spent force and I cant say they will definately declare for Stannis, but they will certainly not fight aginst him.

Robert was never an heir to the Iron Throne according to the law, yet he ended up on the throne. Know what I'm trying to say? Stannis babblings that he is the rightful heir will never get him to the throne, only a military strength will do that -which he has none. Stannis and Viserys are no different at all, both are beggar kings and pretenders.

7 - Haha, you're funny.

Well, I don't think the Crow's Eye fears Stannis. He wasn't there when Balon rebelled against Robert..

8 - Sellswords fight well when they are winning. Stannis is a commander that can put them in that position. Why cant money win him the Iron Throne? If Westeros is anything like this world, money can do just about anything.

Stannis is a military genius? Well, you could've fooled me lol.

Stannis surrounds himself with fools (except for Davos), all his military advisors are stupid. Stannis had a advantage in military strength at the Blackwater battle, but was soundly beaten by the dwarf. If that wasn't enough, he was taken unaware from the back by Tywin and Tyrell at the battle for King's landing. Even a novice commander knows to always keep a rear guard up incase of situations like these.

Stannis is no Robert..

[Batman]

Stannis has aged far rapidly in the last few years, all due to Mel's sorcery. It's only a matter of time before his lifeforce is extinguished, if he continues to keep company with that red witch.

Where did you get the idea that Dorne has only 25 000 spears?

I highly doubt Rickon will submit to Stannis, and march the North to war in the South as his brother Robb did. The North got a battle coming their way from an enemy far more threatening than the Lannisters or Tyrells combined, in the white-walkers.

The Stormlands will favor anyone other than Stannis. They know the justice Stannis is likely to dish out to them should he win this war, so they will likely back anyone with a greater claim to the crown than Stannis. Unlike his brother, Stannis does not know how to make friends out of enemies. All he knows is how to burn or hang "traitors". Also, Stannis didn't do himself any favors by burning the weirwood trees in favor of his god of light (religion seems to have a great influence on the Iron Throne).

Robert was never an heir to the Iron Throne according to the law, yet he ended up on the throne. Know what I'm trying to say? Stannis babblings that he is the rightful heir will never get him to the throne, only a military strength will do that -which he has none. Stannis and Viserys are no different at all, both are beggar kings and pretenders.

Well, I don't think the Crow's Eye fears Stannis. He wasn't there when Balon rebelled against Robert..

Stannis is a military genius? Well, you could've fooled me lol.

Stannis surrounds himself with fools (except for Davos), all his military advisors are stupid. Stannis had a advantage in military strength at the Blackwater battle, but was soundly beaten by the dwarf. If that wasn't enough, he was taken unaware from the back by Tywin and Tyrell at the battle for King's landing. Even a novice commander knows to always keep a rear guard up incase of situations like these.

Stannis is no Robert..

1 - Like I said unproven. Could just be the stress of war. It is a reasonably theory though.

2 - Doran has stated that they cannot raise this kind of force, 50,000 men. They put their numbers much higher than they actually are to make the other kingdoms believe they have strength enough to contest with any of them. He stated they are the least populous of the Kingdoms and Daeron I said that their numbers were far greater to make his accomplishment seem greater. Doran and previous princes have kept this lie going because it serves their purposes.

3 - No one said anything about Rickon marching with the army, he is a little boy. Manderly gave his word he would join Stannis if Davos brought back Rickon. Rickon is a boy who has lost everyone he knows and loves. He may take his lead from Jon or he may take his lead from a regent. Manderly is the most powerful lord in the North and has pledged Stannis fealty if he brought Rickon. Until I read otherwise I am taking Manderly at his word. The North remembers, they remember the Lannisters and the Freys and the Boltons. Stannis offers vengance, they want vengance.

4 - We disagree, but I will concede the Stormlands are the most difficult to predict.

5 - Roberts right to the throne was the right of conquest, the same right Aegon had. The Targaryens lost all their rights when they lost the throne. Tommen's claim is based on the idea he is a Baratheon, making him a usurper since he isnt a Baratheon. By right of birth and blood Stannis is the King. The justice of his cause wont help him, but he is the rightful king.

6 - If he doesnt he is stupid, although he is pretty stupid. He was there during the rebellion against Robert because he planned the attack on Lannisport. Asha mentions this when Victarian brings it up as his plan, he confirms it wasnt his bu Eurons.

7 - At this point I am pretty sure you are trolling.

Stannis wasnt beaten by a dwarf, he was beaten by 70,000 Lannister and Tyrell troops. The scouts were taken out by the mountain clans, a good move by Tyrion. Even if the scouts had survived it wouldnt have mattered, 70,000 will beat 20,000 any day.

You spoke of his defeat but never his victories. The siege of Storms End, the fall of Dragonstone, destroying the Greyjoy fleet, the battle of Castle Black and Deepwood Motte. Defeating the Greyjoys at sea is like defeating Rafa Nadal on clay, it is nearly impossible. His tactics overwhelmed the Wildings at the battle of Castle Black as well. They outnumbered him by tens of thousands and yet his tactics beat them.

I am not saying he is better than Robert, who I regard as one of the best two commanders in the the story, and I am not calling him a genious. But he is as good of a commander as men like Tywin, Kevan and Tarly.

[Victor227]

In anyone other than Stannis' hands, the Iron Bank would be an almost guaranteed war-winner. There are loads, tons really, of impovrished nobles houses in Westeros that would flock to his banner. The problem is that too many houses, especially in the South, have already gone against him. Stannis would have to be able to bring himself to pardon them for their treasons, and do so in a convincing enough way to assure them they still had a chance for advancement in the realm under him, and with Stannis, that's just too uncertain.

The Tyrells were leery about Stannis for events that happened back when he was a child. Why would the Westerlands, Reach, or Stormlands take the chance of him becoming king when they'd fought him so incredibly recently? I can see the surviving Riverlands and Northern houses falling in behind him should everything work out golden with the Boltons, Davos finding Rickon, and the Iron Bank sending reinforcements, but they're pretty tapped out. Stannis just isn't Robert. I can see it in him to begrudgingly forgive enemies, but never ones that have actually fought against him and killed his men.

While the Iron Bank could incentivize a lot of lords to follow Stannis, and put enough mercenaries in his hands to make him a viable contender along with the scraps of the North, I really can't see how, with his reputation, the South is going to splinter to his side. The only advantage he has over Aegon right now is that the Iron Bank knows about him, and Targaryens are the stock of Old Valyria, meaning Braavos may want little to do with him.

[Batman]

In anyone other than Stannis' hands, the Iron Bank would be an almost guaranteed war-winner. There are loads, tons really, of impovrished nobles houses in Westeros that would flock to his banner. The problem is that too many houses, especially in the South, have already gone against him. Stannis would have to be able to bring himself to pardon them for their treasons, and do so in a convincing enough way to assure them they still had a chance for advancement in the realm under him, and with Stannis, that's just too uncertain.

The Tyrells were leery about Stannis for events that happened back when he was a child. Why would the Westerlands, Reach, or Stormlands take the chance of him becoming king when they'd fought him so incredibly recently? I can see the surviving Riverlands and Northern houses falling in behind him should everything work out golden with the Boltons, Davos finding Rickon, and the Iron Bank sending reinforcements, but they're pretty tapped out. Stannis just isn't Robert. I can see it in him to begrudgingly forgive enemies, but never ones that have actually fought against him and killed his men.

While the Iron Bank could incentivize a lot of lords to follow Stannis, and put enough mercenaries in his hands to make him a viable contender along with the scraps of the North, I really can't see how, with his reputation, the South is going to splinter to his side. The only advantage he has over Aegon right now is that the Iron Bank knows about him, and Targaryens are the stock of Old Valyria, meaning Braavos may want little to do with him.

The Tyrells wont support Stannis

The Lannisters bannermen could be bribed if there was a promise Stannis' justice would only entend to Cersei

The Tullys and Riverlords are in desperate need of coin so they could be won easily

The Stormlords could be won back

Dorne will never bend to Stannis

The only thing stopping the Vale is Littlefinger, so I think an assasin would be worth more than bribes in this case. Yohn Royce declared lord protector by King Stannis would win them to his side.

In short people know Stannis to be rigid in his honour and word. If he gave the promise that he would pardon their actions I think most lords would believe him.

[Third World King]

1 - Like I said unproven. Could just be the stress of war. It is a reasonably theory though.

Unproven? Melisandre admitted herself that Stannis lifeforce was too weak to cast any more shadows. As Dalla said, "sorcery is like a sword without a hilt, there is never a safe way to handle it". Stannis should've been wise enough to know that...

2 - Doran has stated that they cannot raise this kind of force, 50,000 men. They put their numbers much higher than they actually are to make the other kingdoms believe they have strength enough to contest with any of them. He stated they are the least populous of the Kingdoms and Daeron I said that their numbers were far greater to make his accomplishment seem greater. Doran and previous princes have kept this lie going because it serves their purposes.

Where did Doran say that Dorne cannot raise 50 000 men?

Quentyn Martell stated that Dorne had 50 000 spears ready, should Dany want to take Westeros back from the Usurpers. I don't think that the prince would lie about that to Dany just to get her to agree to the marriage.

3 - No one said anything about Rickon marching with the army, he is a little boy. Manderly gave his word he would join Stannis if Davos brought back Rickon. Rickon is a boy who has lost everyone he knows and loves. He may take his lead from Jon or he may take his lead from a regent. Manderly is the most powerful lord in the North and has pledged Stannis fealty if he brought Rickon. Until I read otherwise I am taking Manderly at his word. The North remembers, they remember the Lannisters and the Freys and the Boltons. Stannis offers vengance, they want vengance.

Manderly may have promised that, but will he live long enough to see it through? Will Roose Bolton and the Freys allow him to do that?

As for your vengeance, look at what it did to Robb? Will the North want a repeat of that? The Northmen knows that they cannot win this war (Catelyn knew this), especially if they side with Stannis who has a measly host of less that 2 000 men. Besides, the North will need all its men for the battle that looms ahead with the Others...

5 - Roberts right to the throne was the right of conquest, the same right Aegon had. The Targaryens lost all their rights when they lost the throne. Tommen's claim is based on the idea he is a Baratheon, making him a usurper since he isnt a Baratheon. By right of birth and blood Stannis is the King. The justice of his cause wont help him, but he is the rightful king.

Stannis may be the "rightful king", but that won't stop anyone with a greater military power from claiming it as their own as Robert did to Rhaegar. The only rightful king is the one with the most power to win and hold the Iron Throne...

6 - If he doesnt he is stupid, although he is pretty stupid. He was there during the rebellion against Robert because he planned the attack on Lannisport. Asha mentions this when Victarian brings it up as his plan, he confirms it wasnt his bu Eurons.

Oh, yeah. My mistake.

But as I said earlier, Euron does not fear Stannis. His vision is to rule all of westeros, and Stannis is probably the least of his worries right now. If the Crow's Eye feared Stannis, he would never have dared attack lands loyal to Highgarden.

C'mon nobody fears Stannis, the lords of Westeros do not even bother returning any of his messages. They just ignore him like he is a pest lol. If you want to know what fear is, just look at how other houses are quick to repsond when the Lannisters come calling.

7 - At this point I am pretty sure you are trolling.

Stannis wasnt beaten by a dwarf, he was beaten by 70,000 Lannister and Tyrell troops. The scouts were taken out by the mountain clans, a good move by Tyrion. Even if the scouts had survived it wouldnt have mattered, 70,000 will beat 20,000 any day.

Am I trolling because I tell you the truth?

Stannis had far more ships at Blackwater, but what happened? He went blindly into a trap thinking that battles are decided on numbers alone, and was punished greatly for that error by the half-man.

At the battle for King's landing, Stannis showed his ineptitude by attacking foolishly, while leaving himself open for an attack from the back. All that could've been prevented had he made an alliance with Highgarden, but Stannis is too proud to ally himself with traitors, unlike Robert who is quick to know the benefits of turning enemies into friends. Call him what you will, but Stannis is no military genius.

..and by the way, 70 000 does not always beat 20 000. Give Tyrion 20 000 men, and Stannis 70 000, and I will back the Imp any day of the week.

You spoke of his defeat but never his victories. The siege of Storms End, the fall of Dragonstone, destroying the Greyjoy fleet, the battle of Castle Black and Deepwood Motte. Defeating the Greyjoys at sea is like defeating Rafa Nadal on clay, it is nearly impossible. His tactics overwhelmed the Wildings at the battle of Castle Black as well. They outnumbered him by tens of thousands and yet his tactics beat them.

I am not saying he is better than Robert, who I regard as one of the best two commanders in the the story, and I am not calling him a genious. But he is as good of a commander as men like Tywin, Kevan and Tarly.

-You call sitting in a castle like a scaredy cat for a year while living on rats a victory? The Dothraki would disagree with you there.

-Yes, Stannis did destroy the Iron fleet, but even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

-Anyone in the seven Kingodoms can easily destroy the wildings without effort, even Joffrey. Even Jon commented that 300 rangers would leave a big dent against the thousands wildings. The free-folks do not have any discipline, training, armor, weapons, horses etc.

-How many did Stannis defeat at Deepwood motte? Didn't Asha have less than a 100 men?

If you call that greatness, then what do you call Robb's victories against Tywin?

[Dimadick]

The Golden company are the best by far and boast 10,000 strong although it does not say they are the largest. the Stormcrows and the Second Sons are 500 strong. That is a huge difference, there must be other companies who are closer in number to the GC. I was just reading the books and the only reason those two were hired was because the free cities would not have them, they were considered little better than the Brave Companions.

Actually, its the Second Sons that have gained the bad reputation. "The Second Sons are an old company, and not without valor, but under Mero, they've turned near as bad as the Brave Companions. The man is as dangerous to his employers as to his foes. That's why you find him out here. None of the Free Cities will hire him any longer."

Mero is now dead and replaced by Brown Ben Plumm. It remains to be seen if Plumm can restore the fame of the company, though he is off to a bad start.

Jorah Mormont had no idea what the Stormcrows were doing there. He speculated that co-leader Prendahl na Ghezn, a Ghiscari, had kinsmen and contacts in Slaver's Bay. But there is no information on their past record.

[Dimadick]

It is fairly likely, IMHO, that after Cersei's fall from power Kevan could have mollified the Iron Bank, though, particularly if he knuckled down and agreed to punitive payments. Which was one of the reason he needed to go.

We know, Kevan didn't. First, the guy wasn't personally handling financial matters. He assigned these matters to Harys Swyft. So far their financial strategies have consisted of the following acts and ideas:

*They have already asked for a loan from Myrish bankers. Enough money "to make good the crown's debt to the Braavosi and extend us a new loan". Kevan considered a positive reply to be unlikely.

*They have contemplated asking for a loan from the magisters of Pentos.

*Kevan was rather set on sending Harys Swyft to Braavos, to treat with the Iron Bank in person. Harys wants to take bodyguards with him, and Kevan suggested the remnants of Gregor Clegane's crew. That would be about twenty men, excluding their current leader Red Ronnett Connington who is to remain confined in King's Landing.

*Finding a way to convince Petyr Baelish to retake his old seat in the Small Council. Rather convinced that "Petyr Baelish had a gift for conjuring dragons from the air".

Kevan did not dare to resort to new taxes, certain that half the lords in the Seven Kingdoms would immediately turn against the Iron Throne. Also certain that they would serve any would-be usurper, just to save "a clipped copper".

I am not sure Kevan had money for bribes either. Before his death, Kevan was trying to find a way to "win him [Randyll Tarly] to our side [Lannisters]", but had no idea if he could outbid Mace Tyrell.

[Batman]

Unproven? Melisandre admitted herself that Stannis lifeforce was too weak to cast any more shadows. As Dalla said, "sorcery is like a sword without a hilt, there is never a safe way to handle it". Stannis should've been wise enough to know that...

Where did Doran say that Dorne cannot raise 50 000 men?

Quentyn Martell stated that Dorne had 50 000 spears ready, should Dany want to take Westeros back from the Usurpers. I don't think that the prince would lie about that to Dany just to get her to agree to the marriage.

Manderly may have promised that, but will he live long enough to see it through? Will Roose Bolton and the Freys allow him to do that?

As for your vengeance, look at what it did to Robb? Will the North want a repeat of that? The Northmen knows that they cannot win this war (Catelyn knew this), especially if they side with Stannis who has a measly host of less that 2 000 men. Besides, the North will need all its men for the battle that looms ahead with the Others...

Stannis may be the "rightful king", but that won't stop anyone with a greater military power from claiming it as their own as Robert did to Rhaegar. The only rightful king is the one with the most power to win and hold the Iron Throne...

Oh, yeah. My mistake.

But as I said earlier, Euron does not fear Stannis. His vision is to rule all of westeros, and Stannis is probably the least of his worries right now. If the Crow's Eye feared Stannis, he would never have dared attack lands loyal to Highgarden.

C'mon nobody fears Stannis, the lords of Westeros do not even bother returning any of his messages. They just ignore him like he is a pest lol. If you want to know what fear is, just look at how other houses are quick to repsond when the Lannisters come calling.

Am I trolling because I tell you the truth?

Stannis had far more ships at Blackwater, but what happened? He went blindly into a trap thinking that battles are decided on numbers alone, and was punished greatly for that error by the half-man.

At the battle for King's landing, Stannis showed his ineptitude by attacking foolishly, while leaving himself open for an attack from the back. All that could've been prevented had he made an alliance with Highgarden, but Stannis is too proud to ally himself with traitors, unlike Robert who is quick to know the benefits of turning enemies into friends. Call him what you will, but Stannis is no military genius.

..and by the way, 70 000 does not always beat 20 000. Give Tyrion 20 000 men, and Stannis 70 000, and I will back the Imp any day of the week.

-You call sitting in a castle like a scaredy cat for a year while living on rats a victory? The Dothraki would disagree with you there.

-Yes, Stannis did destroy the Iron fleet, but even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

-Anyone in the seven Kingodoms can easily destroy the wildings without effort, even Joffrey. Even Jon commented that 300 rangers would leave a big dent against the thousands wildings. The free-folks do not have any discipline, training, armor, weapons, horses etc.

-How many did Stannis defeat at Deepwood motte? Didn't Asha have less than a 100 men?

If you call that greatness, then what do you call Robb's victories against Tywin?

Its weakened him but that doesnt mean he is dying.

When he was speaking to Arianne he mentioned that Dorne is not as strong as the other seven kingdoms would believe and that they perpetrate this myth to keep the other kingdoms wary.

Of course he would lie. He will do anything to secure the marriage and he has been taught the same bullshit about Dornes strength that his father was all the way back to Daeron the young Dragon. If I cant convince you at this point, go re-read the books because nothing I say will sway you at this point.

The North arent aware of the others yet. The North is a proud and honourable region and they wont let what happened to their king go. They wont join Aegon, Dany or Tommen, so tell me which king this leaves.

Did I claim it would? At this point I am pretty sure you arent reading all of my replies because I have already said the justness of his cause wont help him. Robert was the king by right of conquest and Stannis was his heir by blood. The Lannisters did not win the throne but usurped it in the Baratheon name. Blood wise Stannis is the rightful king. If Aegon or Dany win the throne they will be the rightful monarchs.

As to the rest, you are not a Stannis fan so you want to write him off. There really isnt any point in arguing with you on this because you wont change your mind and I know your just fucking around.

[Batman]

Actually, its the Second Sons that have gained the bad reputation. "The Second Sons are an old company, and not without valor, but under Mero, they've turned near as bad as the Brave Companions. The man is as dangerous to his employers as to his foes. That's why you find him out here. None of the Free Cities will hire him any longer."

Mero is now dead and replaced by Brown Ben Plumm. It remains to be seen if Plumm can restore the fame of the company, though he is off to a bad start.

Jorah Mormont had no idea what the Stormcrows were doing there. He speculated that co-leader Prendahl na Ghezn, a Ghiscari, had kinsmen and contacts in Slaver's Bay. But there is no information on their past record.

One way or another the best sellsword companies seem to be in the Free cities.

[Batman]

We know, Kevan didn't. First, the guy wasn't personally handling financial matters. He assigned these matters to Harys Swyft. So far their financial strategies have consisted of the following acts and ideas:

*They have already asked for a loan from Myrish bankers. Enough money "to make good the crown's debt to the Braavosi and extend us a new loan". Kevan considered a positive reply to be unlikely.

*They have contemplated asking for a loan from the magisters of Pentos.

*Kevan was rather set on sending Harys Swyft to Braavos, to treat with the Iron Bank in person. Harys wants to take bodyguards with him, and Kevan suggested the remnants of Gregor Clegane's crew. That would be about twenty men, excluding their current leader Red Ronnett Connington who is to remain confined in King's Landing.

*Finding a way to convince Petyr Baelish to retake his old seat in the Small Council. Rather convinced that "Petyr Baelish had a gift for conjuring dragons from the air".

Kevan did not dare to resort to new taxes, certain that half the lords in the Seven Kingdoms would immediately turn against the Iron Throne. Also certain that they would serve any would-be usurper, just to save "a clipped copper".

I am not sure Kevan had money for bribes either. Before his death, Kevan was trying to find a way to "win him [Randyll Tarly] to our side [Lannisters]", but had no idea if he could outbid Mace Tyrell.

He also mentioned that if none of the ideas that you mentioned worked out that he would need to resort to using the gold of Casterly Rock to pay the Crowns debts, something he was very against.

[Darth Rivers]

Most sellswords seem to already be hired formthe Battle of Meereen, so unless they run away....

The mercenaries available are for all practical intents and purposes innumerable. There is no way an entire profession is employed by one engagement. A rather crappy one, too, because mercenaries are bound to look for long and indecisive campaigns with lots of loot, rather than short wars decided by a pitched battle (the most dangerous type of engagement), in a location that lacks opportunities for rich plunder.

[Third World King]

Its weakened him but that doesnt mean he is dying.

C'mon Stannis looked 10 years older, just after casting a single shadow.

When he was speaking to Arianne he mentioned that Dorne is not as strong as the other seven kingdoms would believe and that they perpetrate this myth to keep the other kingdoms wary.

I'm still waiting for the part where it specifically states that dorne has 25 000 men? To be honest, I think you are just pulling numbers out of thin air...

Of course he would lie. He will do anything to secure the marriage and he has been taught the same bullshit about Dornes strength that his father was all the way back to Daeron the young Dragon. If I cant convince you at this point, go re-read the books because nothing I say will sway you at this point.

I happen to think that Quentyn was telling the truth. The only way you can convince is if you show me where you got that 25 000...

The North arent aware of the others yet. The North is a proud and honourable region and they wont let what happened to their king go. They wont join Aegon, Dany or Tommen, so tell me which king this leaves.

What makes you think the North is in a hurry to ally themselves with a beggar king like Stannis? Stannis arrived with 1 500 men in the North, only stupid lords would risk everything for that. Smart lords know to keep away from Stannis, that's why nobody bothered to reply to his ravens.

Did I claim it would? At this point I am pretty sure you arent reading all of my replies because I have already said the justness of his cause wont help him. Robert was the king by right of conquest and Stannis was his heir by blood. The Lannisters did not win the throne but usurped it in the Baratheon name. Blood wise Stannis is the rightful king. If Aegon or Dany win the throne they will be the rightful monarchs.

This is highly confusing to me. All I know is that, anyone who ends up sitting on the throne is the rightful king. Robert was the rightful king even after forcefully removing the Targaryens, so don't see how the next king won't be the rightful one.

As to the rest, you are not a Stannis fan so you want to write him off. There really isnt any point in arguing with you on this because you wont change your mind and I know your just fucking around.

There is no reason for me to believe that Stannis is going to grow from strength to strength. Definitely, not while he's got 1 500 men lol. Even the Freys can raise a bigger host than that. The dude is practically begging for support in the North, and lives in run down castles. If I were a betting man, my money would be on anyone other than Stannis. To be honest, I believe Stannis war for the Iron throne is done, all he has left for him is to help fight off the others in the North.

[shehenshah]

C'mon Stannis looked 10 years older, just after casting a single shadow.

"C'mon...", who are you Fox news Bill o'reilly. Just because he looks older doesn't mean he is dying. Haven't read any maester talking about his impeding death yet.

I'm still waiting for the part where it specifically states that dorne has 25 000 men? To be honest, I think you are just pulling numbers out of thin air...

I happen to think that Quentyn was telling the truth. The only way you can convince is if you show me where you got that 25 000...

I don't know about 25000 men either but in A Feast for Crows Chapter 40 "The Princess in the Tower" Prince Doran mentions that the larger army of Dorne is an exaggaration and they'll lose against Iron Throne

What makes you think the North is in a hurry to ally themselves with a beggar king like Stannis? Stannis arrived with 1 500 men in the North, only stupid lords would risk everything for that. Smart lords know to keep away from Stannis, that's why nobody bothered to reply to his ravens.

I guess that the mountain clans, mormonts, glovers and manderlys like to be stupid then

This is highly confusing to me. All I know is that, anyone who ends up sitting on the throne is the rightful king. Robert was the rightful king even after forcefully removing the Targaryens, so don't see how the next king won't be the rightful one.

I'll add 'gaining fealty of the majority of the seven kingdoms to that as well

There is no reason for me to believe that Stannis is going to grow from strength to strength. Definitely, not while he's got 1 500 men lol. Even the Freys can raise a bigger host than that. The dude is practically begging for support in the North, and lives in run down castles. If I were a betting man, my money would be on anyone other than Stannis. To be honest, I believe Stannis war for the Iron throne is done, all he has left for him is to help fight off the others in the North.

It is a valid opinion. Eagerly waiting for The Winds of Winter :wideeyed:

[Jolene Brown]

The mountain clans, mormonts, glovers and manderlys are risking everything to throw down the Boltons and reclaim Winterfell, not for Stannis. What will happen after that is still a very open question.

[shehenshah]

The mountain clans, mormonts, glovers and manderlys are risking everything to throw down the Boltons and reclaim Winterfell, not for Stannis. What will happen after that is still a very open question.

If he wins, they may want to throw down Lannisters (Revenge for Rob) and repay the rightful king by helping him win Iron Throne as well. However, he would perhaps give some nothern lands and castles to his knights/generals which can cause clash.

[GallowsKnight]

I think the timing of the Sellswords is entirely in GRRM's hands, not what's realistic or plausible.

If he wants to he could have a chapter of Massey completely frustrated that he can't raise any mercenaries or he could hop off the ship at Braavos to find that the Iron Bank has been keeping a large force of mercenaries on retainer should they be needed ever since Cersei brushed them off. Then with the Braavosi navy they sweep into White Harbour to reinforce Stannis.

[Free Northman]

A lot of Stannis supporters among readers are quite casual in treating the North as a whore that can simply be used to further Stannis ambitions in whatever way he sees fit.

If they have 10,000 men, great, they can be used to storm King's Landing from the landward side. If they have a navy of 50 ships, great, they can be used to set up a blockade of King's Landing from the seaward side. If there are empty castles, great, they can be given to Stannis southern bannermen to reward their loyalty and ensure their continued support in future. If there is a surviving son of Eddard Stark running around, great, he can be used as a puppet Lord of Winterfell to solidify Stannis support in the North.

All of the above entirely disregards the fact that the North doesn't care about the southern Game of Thrones, have larger issues to deal with than Stannis's royal ambitions, and frankly, don't like southron jackanapes very much to begin with.

They aren't there to be used as Stannis sees fit.

He will NOT be able to give a single northern castle to a southern bannerman.

The Manderly fleet will NOT be ferrying his troops back and forth across the Narrow Sea.

The northmen will NOT be marching off to King's Landing for him.

The North isn't simply an extension of Stannis's ambitions. They couldn't give two hoots about him.

[Free Northman]

Furthermore. There are supposedly two books left. The entire northern storyline has been a build up to the reinstatement of the Starks in Winterfell and the reunification of the North under a Stark for the War against the Others.

The North will probably be reunited by the end of Winds of Winter. That leaves one book as things stand currently. There is no time for the reunited North to first march off to King's Landing, before then coming all the way back North to deal with the existential and much more important threat facing them and the world, which makes Stannis's petty games fade into insignificance in comparison.

Stannis is never going back to King's Landing. He will die in the North and the story will continue with him having served his purpose in it. Stannis is a sideshow. He is not one of the main characters in this story.

It is really very obvious.

[GallowsKnight]

A lot of Stannis supporters among readers are quite casual in treating the North as a whore that can simply be used to further Stannis ambitions in whatever way he sees fit.

If they have 10,000 men, great, they can be used to storm King's Landing from the landward side. If they have a navy of 50 ships, great, they can be used to set up a blockade of King's Landing from the seaward side. If there are empty castles, great, they can be given to Stannis southern bannermen to reward their loyalty and ensure their continued support in future. If there is a surviving son of Eddard Stark running around, great, he can be used as a puppet Lord of Winterfell to solidify Stannis support in the North.

All of the above entirely disregards the fact that the North doesn't care about the southern Game of Thrones, have larger issues to deal with than Stannis's royal ambitions, and frankly, don't like southron jackanapes very much to begin with.

They aren't there to be used as Stannis sees fit.

He will NOT be able to give a single northern castle to a southern bannerman.

The Manderly fleet will NOT be ferrying his troops back and forth across the Narrow Sea.

The northmen will NOT be marching off to King's Landing for him.

The North isn't simply an extension of Stannis's ambitions. They couldn't give two hoots about him.

I don't think Stannis is silly enough to try to give any Nothern Castles to his men. There'll be plenty of Western, Reach and Stormland Castles once he's on the Throne.

I do however think that some element of the North will come South with Stannis (if he ever makes it south), if only as far as the Twins but possibly all the way to Kingslanding. Because there's the matter of RIGHTEOUS BLOODY VENGEANCE against the Freys and Lannisters.

I could see all the Northern foot going to the Wall or home. Then men like the Mountain Clans and any remaining Northern Calvary coming south.

Furthermore. There are supposedly two books left. The entire northern storyline has been a build up to the reinstatement of the Starks in Winterfell and the reunification of the North under a Stark for the War against the Others.

The North will probably be reunited by the end of Winds of Winter. That leaves one book as things stand currently. There is no time for the reunited North to first march off to King's Landing, before then coming all the way back North to deal with the existential and much more important threat facing them and the world, which makes Stannis's petty games fade into insignificance in comparison.

Stannis is never going back to King's Landing. He will die in the North and the story will continue with him having served his purpose in it. Stannis is a sideshow. He is not one of the main characters in this story.

It is really very obvious.

Who knows? It was meant to be a trilogy. Anything could happen.

[Free Northman]

I don't think Stannis is silly enough to try to give any Nothern Castles to his men. There'll be plenty of Western, Reach and Stormland Castles once he's on the Throne.

I do however think that some element of the North will come South with Stannis (if he ever makes it south), if only as far as the Twins but possibly all the way to Kingslanding. Because there's the matter of RIGHTEOUS BLOODY VENGEANCE against the Freys and Lannisters.

I could see all the Northern foot going to the Wall or home. Then men like the Mountain Clans and any remaining Northern Calvary coming south.

There isn't time for a southern campaign for Stannis. In my view, Stannis has set everything up for the rightful heir - Jon - to step up and take control of the North and the 20,000 new sellswords after Stannis dies in the North.

Stannis will never go south of the Neck again. He is basically the guy that sets everything up for Jon to be able to mobilize the realm quickly to face the Others.