jarl the climber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Pfiu! Thank you God! :drunk:Because of Targs, Starks are not indepented and not kings. How would you call this?When the Targs took over Westeros the Starks beame vassal Lords just like the Boltons and Umbers are their vassals. They did take away the Stark crown but thus did not lead to their downfall anymore than being vasslas to the Starks led to the downfall of their vassals Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Subjugated?So, why they would want to ally with a Targ?She has no claim to the throne either.When the Targs took over Westeros the Starks beame vassal Lords just like the Boltons and Umbers are their vassals. They did take away the Stark crown but thus did not lead to their downfall anymore than being vasslas to the Starks led to the downfall of their vassals Lords. So, why they would want to ally with a Targ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piece Maker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Even if she could give them that(she cant, not right now) She would not, she is blood of the dragon after all and will take what is hers with fire and blood and caps lock. the north is hers as well somehow.If she gets to Westros (I think she will) and demands the throne ( with her 3 dragons), she will be in the position to give them that.She won't need to until Bran wargs one of her dragons.The Starks have no ambitions for the iron throne. All they want is justice for Ned and independence for the north.I think that would be a pretty good deal, the north and justice for a dragon, and peace with her nephew. Unless Jon stays alive and decides he wants to be king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 So, why they would want to ally with a Targ?She has no claim to the throne either.So, why they would want to ally with a Targ?I gave you two reason already why Daenerys and the Starks could become allies. The only one who knows for sure is GRRM, and if he wants it to happen it will, and there are two important factors that could serve as catalysis for this friendship (R+L=J and AA/zombie apocalipse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 If she gets to Westros (I think she will) and demands the throne ( with her 3 dragons), she will be in the position to give them that.You know that she has no right to the throne right?demands the throne? Politics doesn't work like that.Dragons can be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You know that she has no right to the throne right?demands the throne? Politics doesn't work like that.Dragons can be killed.It worked for Aegon the Conqueror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I gave you two reason already why Daenerys and the Starks could become allies. The only one who knows for sure is GRRM, and if he wants it to happen it will, and there are two important factors that could serve as catalysis for this friendship (R+L=J and AA/zombie apocalipse)What reasons the dying words? Are you kidding me?It worked for Aegon the Conqueror...His dragons were much bigger and he was a warrior and he actualy had 2 sisters to help him. What Dany has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 So, why they would want to ally with a Targ?She has no claim to the throne either.So, why they would want to ally with a Targ?Why would they ally themselves with Stannis? Because he is helping them. Dany will have to do something concrete to win them. Her sending Jorah and some men to the Wall, with Jorah acting as an envoy as well is a good start. Dany might have acsess to a superior form of communications which might be a bigger edge than her dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piece Maker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 @JQCIf R + L = J Jon would be the rightful heir, but he gave that up when he joined the NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 What reasons the dying words? Are you kidding me?The future war against the Others where Daenerys and Jon (possible 2 heads of AA) might fight against the Others and save everyone (specially the North) from the zombie apocalipse. That is only speculation but if GRRM wants an alliance between Targs and Starks this would be a big catalysis for a friendship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Why would they ally themselves with Stannis? Because he is helping them. Dany will have to do something concrete to win them. Her sending Jorah and some men to the Wall, with Jorah acting as an envoy as well is a good start. Dany might have acsess to a superior form of communications which might be a bigger edge than her dragons.Baratheons are already Starks allies.Jorah?The man who dishonored his family and Ned exiled?@JQCIf R + L = J Jon would be the rightful heir, but he gave that up when he joined the NWThe near death reborn broke his vows.The future war against the Others where Daenerys and Jon (possible 2 heads of AA) might fight against the Others and save everyone (specially the North) from the zombie apocalipse. That is only speculation but if GRRM wants an alliance between Targs and Starks this would be a big catalysis for a friendship...AA has one head and it's Jon's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 If she gets to Westros (I think she will) and demands the throne ( with her 3 dragons), she will be in the position to give them that.She won't need to until Bran wargs one of her dragons.The Starks have no ambitions for the iron throne. All they want is justice for Ned and independence for the north.I think that would be a pretty good deal, the north and justice for a dragon, and peace with her nephew. Unless Jon stays alive and decides he wants to be king.Most of the people who killed Ned are dead. Illyn Payne is still lingering but he was just following orders. They want justice for the Red Wedding but they are not going to wait for Dany on that or even ask her permission or her blessing. Any commitment they made to Stannis will complicate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Baratheons are already Starks allies.Jorah?The man who dishonored his family and Ned exiled?The near death reborn broke his vows.AA has one head and it's Jon'sActually Jorah fled before Ned could pass judgement on him. Still he has every right to return to take the Black. Considering the fact that his Father was Lord Cammander and the way he died plus the risk the rest of his family and former subjects are in no one will doubt his motives. He is still a Mormont and a Northman, despite his crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The near death reborn broke his vows.Jon Snow is a man of honor. Ressurecting would not make him think that his vows dont apply anymore, the only way to make him quit is if the NW is no longer needed (after the final battle against the Others?).AA has one head and it's Jon'sYou dont know that for sure, Im talking about possibilities and ways GRRM can justify an alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piece Maker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You know that she has no right to the throne right?demands the throne? Politics doesn't work like that.Dragons can be killed.She thinks she has the right to the throne, so I guess she can demand it.I didn't mean to say that she would get it just because she demanded it.Wannabe kings(and queens) can make alliances before the fighting begins.War works like that.Yes, I suppose that dragons can be killed. Aegon's weren't.The only record that I have found of dragons being killed was in the wiki. They were killed by other dragons in the Dance of Dragons( Targ civil war).Do you think Dany's dragons will kill each other or do you think that more dragons will appear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 She thinks she has the right to the throne, so I guess she can demand it.I didn't mean to say that she would get it just because she demanded it.Wannabe kings(and queens) can make alliances before the fighting begins.War works like that.Yes, I suppose that dragons can be killed. Aegon's weren't.The only record that I have found of dragons being killed was in the wiki. They were killed by other dragons in the Dance of Dragons( Targ civil war).Do you think Dany's dragons will kill each other or do you think that more dragons will appear?I'm not sure if ore dragons will show up, its not impossible. Danys dragons are young, Aegons were huge, old and well trained. Her Dragons are not in their league and are more vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piece Maker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm not sure if ore dragons will show up, its not impossible. Danys dragons are young, Aegons were huge, old and well trained. Her Dragons are not in their league and are more vulnerable.For now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piece Maker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Most of the people who killed Ned are dead. Illyn Payne is still lingering but he was just following orders. They want justice for the Red Wedding but they are not going to wait for Dany on that or even ask her permission or her blessing. Any commitment they made to Stannis will complicate the situation.They want justice for the Red Wedding. How will they get it without help? I guess Arya could sneak around and kill everyone. They don't need anyone's blessing, but they do need some help. There may be no other choice but to wait. If Stannis is still alive that would complicate things. We'll have to wait too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analeigh Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 They want justice for the Red Wedding. How will they get it without help? I guess Arya could sneak around and kill everyone. They don't need anyone's blessing, but they do need some help. There may be no other choice but to wait. If Stannis is still alive that would complicate things. We'll have to wait too.The Starks will get help when they attempt to get justice for the Red Wedding. But the help they need is from the Vale. If the North consolidates it's remaining power and Sansa is revealed within the Vale, the Vale will rally to help the North if they seek to punish the Freys for the Red Wedding. Lysa was the only reason that the Vale didn't enter the war on Robb's side. With her gone, the Vale won't hestitate this time to help the North and the Riverlands if they decide to descend on the Twins. Justice for the Red Wedding will take time, but the wait will be worth it to see the North, Riverlands, and the Vale lay siege to the Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 For now.....Sure, but the story isn't going to wait 10 years for the Dragons to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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