The Mountain vs Robert Baratheon

[Mulled Wino]

Its not about how strong you are with a weapon. Its how you use it. Robert can swing that hammer at 60% and he's crushing u. Which means he would be able to use his skills.

[Frey Pie]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

Im well over 12 and i dont mind them aslong as the conversation isnt taken over by people who wont listen to sense. Im always interested in other posters opinions

[Third World King]

How much good will his 8 feet and pure muscle do him exactly?

Not really sure if serious?

Height and weight always helps in battles, any man surely should know that.

The muscle and armor parts, sure, they do confer at least some advantages. But his height? Humans aren't built for growing so large. Already when getting much taller than six feet you often start getting complications, and Gregor is almost eight... do you realise how fucking huge and oversized that is? There's no way he functions optimally, dexterity and speed wise. He is a human with a birth defect, not a giant whose body has evolved around being that size.

Correction. Most humans are not meant to grow that large. However, some are, and I have never read any part where it said that the Gregor didn't function optimally for his height and weight. In fact, it is said that he was quicker for a person of his stature.

Cutting a man in half with a blow from a greatsword isn't as hard as you think, if the sword is good, you know how to use it, and your foe isn't much armored. As I said before, flesh and bone is relatively soft. so him doing that doesn't prove much. I'm not saying Gregor is actually a poor fighter though, he is not, but he is too flawed to be counted amongst the best in the realm.

If cutting a man in half with a sword was as easy as you make it out to be, then why does the author make it sound like it was something extraordinary, and not something that everyone could do.

But the Red viper was well past his prime, and was never known for being such a famous warrior anyway. He was known for his poison skills and dabbling in dark arts. Now, he was surely a better fighter than most in Westeros anyway, but I would rank Oberyn at forty five years well below Robert at twenty. The latter being one of the most famous heroes of his day, almost entirely due to his martial prowess.

Now I know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Where exactly does it say that Oberyn was well past his his prime? For the record, Oberyn was known for his fighting prowess as well as his not-so-honorable tactics.

[Naathi Prince]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

thanks for insulting like 20 people, but there is an entire tv show that is pretty popular based on this entire premise.

[Mulled Wino]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

You're a jackass. Boxing fans talk about mythical matchups endlessly. So do military people and martial artists.

You ever fought competitively before?

I dont go threads i dont particulaly like and start insulting everyone in it. Nice original name there Michael Snow.

[Third World King]

So what you are looking for is a Westeros olympics? How do we really know if any characters that have not fought is faster than the other? Jaime has said he was fast but we have only seen him in one fight. I am willing to grant you it is an assumption, but I would say that is a very likely and reasonable assumption.

No, what I initially said was that a man of Gregors size would be slower than a man of Roberts.

To stay with your analogy both Robert and Gregor would be NBA quality players. An average dude with muscles is not going to have the athleticism of an NBA player. Again these are faulty comparisons, Tyson Chandler is almost a foot shorter than Gregor and at least 180 pounds lighter. Shaq is the closest thing to Gregor and he is still almost a foot and 100 pounds off.

You have no evidence. All you have is the "Gregor was huge, so therefore slow" logic. You think Robert would win, you are correct, because no one can ever prove it to be false. However, those who think Gregor would win, are also correct. Without them actually fighting, no one can know for sure who would win. It's just like the Mayweather and Pacquiao arguments, it all depends on whom one prefers.

[Mulled Wino]

You have no evidence. All you have is the "Gregor was huge, so therefore slow" logic. You think Robert would win, you are correct, because no one can ever prove it to be false. However, those who think Gregor would win, are also correct. Without them actually fighting, no one can know for sure who would win. It's just like the Mayweather and Pacquiao arguments, it all depends on whom one prefers.

This is because you have no idea wtf you are talking about. Which is clear.

Manny v Floyd, to an educated fight fan isnt about who you prefer. Its about who beats who in a fight. For a simplistic example, Manny has gotten chopped up recently by counter punches. Floyd is a brilliant counter puncher. I hate Floyd, but the current Manny isnt built to beat Floyd especially at 147-154. He just isnt. He doesnt have one punch powet anymore at these higher weights.

[Mulled Wino]

There are also plenty examples of six and a half foot tall men moving slowly..just saying.

Give me one example of an elite athlete/fighter that was a foot and a half taller than a similarly elite opponent, AND was faster......

I'll check back for a legitimate reply from you right about.......... Never.

[Gannicus]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

OK bro.

Is it absurd when Vegas sets the moneyline? People are just trying to have some fun.

depends on the sword and how it is used. A slashing sword like a katana could never go through plate armor, while a longword used as a stabbing weapon(which was how most knights used it contrary to what popular media shows) can also penetrate plate but only if the blow is well placed and carries enough force. Most knights were not killed by swords but rather by longbows and crossbows.

I favored Robert because the fighting style of gregor mainly involves waving his sword at whatever he sees - which will deal only slashing blows which are not enough to destroy quality plate. Most of his kills came by the force behind the blow which broke the bones of the other fighters but i would be surprised if they also went through plate. Robert is skilled enough to dodge most blows and strong enough to endure a few glancing blows and all he needs is a good swing at gregor, one blow will kill(gregor not being one to go around dodging blows).

My understanding of true Medieval warfare is that the longsword would rarely go straight through and kill a man in full plated armor. However this doesn't mean people would not get seriously fucked up. Knights would break bones, get concussions, get knocked to the ground without the sword penetrating through the armor. Once the knight was on the ground and laboring with other injuries they are pretty much doomed to succumb to multiple blows eventually leading to death.

A war-hammer was one of the few weapons that if delivered well could go straight through plate and mail.

[StarkSupporter]

How do you know Robert was not "all brawn and no brain" in one to one battles? For all we know, Robert could've been the same type of fighter as the Mountain that rides (i.e all power and fury).

How do you know Robert was more skilled than Gregor? Is there any evidence from the books that he was? We know that Robert was skilled, but to say that he was more skilled than the Mountain, is unfounded.

Robert has been described as one of the finest warriors in Westeros. One does not come to be described like that by being a simple brute. You need to have a mix of attributes (like size, strength, speed, skill, etc) and able to use all those attribute effectively. Gregor does not, as we can tell from his fight with Loras, then the Hound, and his fight with Obreyn, he seemed to rely on his size and strength, not sound technique or anything else. Sandor is able to block, parry, and possibly evade all of his attacks, while Sandor is unquestionably a talented warrior, Robert during the Rebellion was without peer.

There are also plenty examples of six and a half foot tall men moving slowly..just saying.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that everyone in Westeros knew that the Mountain that rides was not a man to mess with in battle. He was a renowned fighter capable of taking any man in battle.

I'm very aware that there are plenty of six and half foot tall men that move slow, but look at it like this, we are talking about Robert and Gregor as warriors, which requires a certain degree of athleticism. Going back to basketball, have you ever seen a big 3/ small 4, that is slower than a 5? Since we know that Robert was one of the best warriors in the realm, he must have been fairly athletic, while Gregor is constantly described for his freak attributes of size and strength. If Gregor's size and strength were not enough to allow him to kill Sandor, why then are they enough for him to be able to defeat Robert? Not only is Robert described as one of the finest warriors, he also carries a weapon that is far more effective than Gregor.

[Third World King]

This is because you have no idea wtf you are talking about. Which is clear.

Manny v Floyd, to an educated fight fan isnt about who you prefer. Its about who beats who in a fight. For a simplistic example, Manny has gotten chopped up recently by counter punches. Floyd is a brilliant counter puncher. I hate Floyd, but the current Manny isnt built to beat Floyd especially at 147-154. He just isnt. He doesnt have one punch powet anymore at these higher weights.

Give me one example of an elite athlete/fighter that was a foot and a half taller than a similarly elite opponent, AND was faster......

I'll check back for a legitimate reply from you right about.......... Never.

I thought you did not reply to scrubs? LOL

[Batman]

You have no evidence. All you have is the "Gregor was huge, so therefore slow" logic. You think Robert would win, you are correct, because no one can ever prove it to be false. However, those who think Gregor would win, are also correct. Without them actually fighting, no one can know for sure who would win. It's just like the Mayweather and Pacquiao arguments, it all depends on whom one prefers.

On the fight part I will agree with you. On the speed part, there has never been an athlete that is 8 feet tall or anywhere near that who is faster than a 6,6 athlete from the same field. It is a reasonable conclusion to make. If your looking for a pie chart or a diagram then I dont have it. I am working off of common sense and common sense dictates that a man who is near 8 feet tall is going to be slower than a man who is 6,6 if they are both fit individuals.

[pitakon]

The Mountain is cool. That is more than enough.

[Third World King]

Robert has been described as one of the finest warriors in Westeros. One does not come to be described like that by being a simple brute. You need to have a mix of attributes (like size, strength, speed, skill, etc) and able to use all those attribute effectively. Gregor does not, as we can tell from his fight with Loras, then the Hound, and his fight with Obreyn, he seemed to rely on his size and strength, not sound technique or anything else. Sandor is able to block, parry, and possibly evade all of his attacks, while Sandor is unquestionably a talented warrior, Robert during the Rebellion was without peer.

Being a high quality warrior, does not automatically mean that Robert was fast. It could mean that he used his qualities very well (power and fury). Yes, I do agree, Gregor was brutish in his battles, but how do you know Robert was not the same? (Besides using Robert was one of the finest warrior of the realm line- which could mean a lot of things other than what you think it means.)

Robert was without peer? I'm sure the Sword of the morning or Ser Barristan the bold would have something to say about that. Just because Robert beat Rhaegar does not make him unbeatable. Rhaegar was not even that legendary of a fighter. He was excellent in tourneys, but those mean nothing really.

I'm very aware that there are plenty of six and half foot tall men that move slow, but look at it like this, we are talking about Robert and Gregor as warriors, which requires a certain degree of athleticism. Going back to basketball, have you ever seen a big 3/ small 4, that is slower than a 5? Since we know that Robert was one of the best warriors in the realm, he must have been fairly athletic, while Gregor is constantly described for his freak attributes of size and strength. If Gregor's size and strength were not enough to allow him to kill Sandor, why then are they enough for him to be able to defeat Robert? Not only is Robert described as one of the finest warriors, he also carries a weapon that is far more effective than Gregor.

How do you know that Gregor would not have killed the Hound had the fight been allowed to continue? A lot of people here seem to underestimate the weapon Gregor carried. He carried a double handed great-sword which was 6 feet long. Imagine that kind of sword with his power? Armour or no armour, Robert would be in a world of pain, if a single shot landed on him.

[Mulled Wino]

I thought you did not reply to scrubs? LOL

Even a scrub deserves to get clowned here n there.

[Mulled Wino]

The Mountain is cool. That is more than enough.

So was Bob

[Nukelavee]

Size alone is a bit misleading here. Once you include the armour, and account for the weapons being used, size only matters for reach. Considering the size of both men, and their strength, both are overkill capable, neither one is going to be able to shrug off a real hit (as opposed to one the armour sheds and withstands.) Gregor has reach, but he isn't using the weapon (in this fight) to maximize that benefit. Greatswords aren't really good for thrusts, or even slashes, but mostly for hacking or chopping. It's a clumsy weapon. Having said that, Gregor is big enough he can likely make that thing dance, but, still, not a versatile weapon.

A warhammer has a lot more options than you'd think. Head, spike, thrust with it, hook with it, use the haft to block, and the "pommel". Plus, you can shorten your grip, or hold er by the end. You can ever throw the damn thing effectively.

The down side of Gregor's reach is that, using a greatsword means there would be a range where Robert is inside it's effective radius. Robert's own size, armour, and strength mean he'd be less scared of getting close, and far better off close than Oberon was.

Warhammers are hell on ribs and knees, too, and Robert is strong and skilled enough to go for a crippling knee strike.

Gregor and his migraines are a telling weakness. If Robert can even ding the helm a few times, Gregor is going to start to fade. Trust me, a major migraine does not make you a better fighter.

Oh, and inertia - Gregor has to be slower on recoveries, he jast has too much mass to change direction fast.

I figure Gregor gets his best chance right off, catches Rob off guard, and one-shots him. If he misses that, it goes for a longer fight, with Robert having the advantages. If it goes to a clinch, edge to Gregor.

[Third World King]

On the fight part I will agree with you. On the speed part, there has never been an athlete that is 8 feet tall or anywhere near that who is faster than a 6,6 athlete from the same field. It is a reasonable conclusion to make. If your looking for a pie chart or a diagram then I dont have it.

How many athletes has there been that are 8 feet tall? Pretty few, I would imagine. And of those, how many of them weighed 420 pounds, mostly muscle? None in recent history. So, all your comparisons are bound to be flawed...

I am working off of common sense and common sense dictates that a man who is near 8 feet tall is going to be slower than a man who is 6,6 if they are both fit individuals.

Lebron is 6 foot 8 and Manny is probably around 5 foot 6 tall, both are fit individuals. Does common sense dictate that Manny would be faster of the two in a 100m race?

[Third World King]

Even a scrub deserves to get clowned here n there.

Well, don't let me get in your way...

[Mulled Wino]

Size alone is a bit misleading here. Once you include the armour, and account for the weapons being used, size only matters for reach. Considering the size of both men, and their strength, both are overkill capable, neither one is going to be able to shrug off a real hit (as opposed to one the armour sheds and withstands.) Gregor has reach, but he isn't using the weapon (in this fight) to maximize that benefit. Greatswords aren't really good for thrusts, or even slashes, but mostly for hacking or chopping. It's a clumsy weapon. Having said that, Gregor is big enough he can likely make that thing dance, but, still, not a versatile weapon.

A warhammer has a lot more options than you'd think. Head, spike, thrust with it, hook with it, use the haft to block, and the "pommel". Plus, you can shorten your grip, or hold er by the end. You can ever throw the damn thing effectively.

The down side of Gregor's reach is that, using a greatsword means there would be a range where Robert is inside it's effective radius. Robert's own size, armour, and strength mean he'd be less scared of getting close, and far better off close than Oberon was.

Warhammers are hell on ribs and knees, too, and Robert is strong and skilled enough to go for a crippling knee strike.

Gregor and his migraines are a telling weakness. If Robert can even ding the helm a few times, Gregor is going to start to fade. Trust me, a major migraine does not make you a better fighter.

Oh, and inertia - Gregor has to be slower on recoveries, he jast has too much mass to change direction fast.

I figure Gregor gets his best chance right off, catches Rob off guard, and one-shots him. If he misses that, it goes for a longer fight, with Robert having the advantages. If it goes to a clinch, edge to Gregor.

And Gregor is a notoriously slow starter (as we've seen in both his fights).