Why does Melisandre Bleed?

[OneTrueSteve]

I have to say that this is intriguing, but it falls apart on a number of points.

First, Mel doesn't recognize Bloodraven. This couldn't be more clear. At first she thinks she's seeing Stannis "... but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames." At no place does she show any hint of recognition, only confusion and a question as to who it could be.

Second, there is no desire or attraction indicated, only stone cold terror. She thought she saw the Enemy and it freaked her right the heck out.

Then there's the whole issue with the Seastar being more than a century old. She's feeling pretty spry for someone who's somewhere around a hundred and a quarter.

And the whole Melony thing.

As was said above, this chapter makes it pretty clear that she's not exactly a fully functioning living person. She doesn't need to eat or sleep for more than an hour or so a day. In the middle of this scene she claims that she has the fire of her god burning in her womb and sending heat waves from her skin. This magic takes a toll on her body, and that's a much more likely answer to the smoking black blood

[Khal Porno]

but you know Seastar is HOT HOT HOT for Bloodraven right? "He sees me" - then all kind of manic happenings and emotions. Reminds me of a teenager in love. Not that SS is a teenager though. But BR obviously still presses certain buttons.

Sorry for making you think of gross stuff - but this is ASOIAF where Reeks and rapes are fair game.

Yeah but if she were aroused, why in God's name would she excrete blood?? I don't think it's possible for women to be so horny that they burst blood vessels in their nether regions.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

At one time I had planned on making a Crackpot Theory Troll Post about how Jon dies at the Wall and Melisandre revives him with her magic fire vagina, but I lack the guts =)

[yolkboy]

I have to say that this is intriguing, but it falls apart on a number of points.

First, Mel doesn't recognize Bloodraven. This couldn't be more clear. At first she thinks she's seeing Stannis "... but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames." At no place does she show any hint of recognition, only confusion and a question as to who it could be.

It says : 1000 red eyes.... he sees me. . Bloodraven was called 1000 eyes.

Second, there is no desire or attraction indicated, only stone cold terror. She thought she saw the Enemy and it freaked her right the heck out.

"an agony, an ecstasy, filling her" ecstacy sounds like attraction to me, albeit mixed with agony.

Then there's the whole issue with the Seastar being more than a century old. She's feeling pretty spry for someone who's somewhere around a hundred and a quarter.

Sure, but i think the ruby and the magic she learned in Asshai might be the answer there.

And the whole Melony thing.

As was said above, this chapter makes it pretty clear that she's not exactly a fully functioning living person. She doesn't need to eat or sleep for more than an hour or so a day. In the middle of this scene she claims that she has the fire of her god burning in her womb and sending heat waves from her skin. This magic takes a toll on her body, and that's a much more likely answer to the smoking black blood

Ive said sh'es a slave to R'Hllor, which could have involved literal slavery and torture... Melony lot7 could be another of her pseudonyms - from her terrifying days training as R'Hllors servant.

You could be right about her bleeding... but really we're both agreeing... the price of her magic is seen when her vagina bleeds.

I liked your questions by the way, hope these answers give you some food for thought!

[yolkboy]

Yeah but if she were aroused, why in God's name would she excrete blood?? I don't think it's possible for women to be so horny that they burst blood vessels in their nether regions.

Because she used her vagina for dark magic - shadow birthing.... and now her parts are a little bit ruined, she's paying the price dearly. There has to be some pay-back for shadow birthing, right? Otherwise she'd be queefing out an army of shadow freaks.

[Pugsley]

It says : 1000 red eyes.... he sees me. . Bloodraven was called 1000 eyes.

Yes, it's no doubt Bloodraven she's seeing. WE as readers know that. But there's no indication here that she's familiar with BR and/or recognizes him. Otherwise, why does she wonder if this is the enemy she's seeing?

"... but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy?

If she knew BR, was his former lover and still harbored major hots for him, would she be trying to puzzle this out? Wouldn't she know?

[yolkboy]

Yes, it's no doubt Bloodraven she's seeing. WE as readers know that. But there's no indication here that she's familiar with BR and/or recognizes him. Otherwise, why does she wonder if this is the enemy she's seeing?

If she knew BR, was his former lover and still harbored major hots for him, would she be trying to puzzle this out? Wouldn't she know?

Like i said a short while ago, i think she's seeing Bloodraven and the Great Other. Its a mix. "the agony, the ecstacy".

There's confusion and polar opposites - something bizarre is happening. I'm not 100% what exactly, but have a few ideas.

I don't see my threads as my ideas VS evryone elses I'm delighted youve found flaws, and maybe we can all nail this piece of the puzzle with some collective thought.

This scene is of massive importance, thats the only surety i would offer at the moment.

[Associate Maester]

I'm definately swaying towards their being 3 parties in involved here... Mel/Bloodraven/GreatOther

One thing i'm sure is that Mel bleeding was a highly significant moment.

What do you think of the bastards living in the shadows idea a few posts back? I think it's a biggie, but need some feedback, i could be wrong here.

From Dreadfort81...

"Mel honestly believes Stannis is AA per her POV chapter. In the same chapter there is no evidence she is starting to doubt that. It may be the case in the next book, but certainly not in Dance. "

I'm with you on the first bit. However, when she looks into the flames for AA in 'Dance', she keeps seeing Jon Snow. She KNOWS he's really important, but can't figure out why. I speculate that she might just be starting to think Jon might be AA after all, the flames dont lie. Although i agree, she never says that out loud, i just wonder if she's beginning to suspect her previous ideas might be wrong.

I agree she sees Jon as important given the skulls and danger around him. He's vitally important given he is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch sworn to fight against "The cold children of the Great Other." We'll see if she changes her views come TWOW. Then again I'm a fan of the multiple AA and not the one person is destined to be a hero trope.

[Xango]

Like i said a short while ago, i think she's seeing Bloodraven and the Great Other. Its a mix. "the agony, the ecstacy".

There's confusion and polar opposites - something bizarre is happening. I'm not 100% what exactly, but have a few ideas.

I don't see my threads as my ideas VS evryone elses I'm delighted youve found flaws, and maybe we can all nail this piece of the puzzle with some collective thought.

This scene is of massive importance, thats the only surety i would offer at the moment.

The quote you've been reading is two separate quotes. When she's talking about agony and ecstasy she's talking about the magic in her that's causing her to bleed fire. She's not in love with BR, she thought he was the Great Other at first and fears him. This whole thread is based on a quotes taken out of context. I'm not normally one to bash threads because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this thread is 100% wrong.

[Associate Maester]

Because she used her vagina for dark magic - shadow birthing.... and now her parts are a little bit ruined, she's paying the price dearly. There has to be some pay-back for shadow birthing, right? Otherwise she'd be queefing out an army of shadow freaks.

Whether it is dark magic or not is really a personal view and we get a negative view of it from the POVs we have in the story (Davos and Dany with Maz Duur). The price seems to be paid by the "donor" in Stannis' case. He ages visibly do use of his "life fire." Why would they be ruined as such. Surely, those two shadow children weren't the first she's birthed. Are you implying magic would punish her or BR would have the power to?

[yolkboy]

The quote you've been reading is two separate quotes. When she's talking about agony and ecstasy she's talking about the magic in her that's causing her to bleed fire. She's not in love with BR, she thought he was the Great Other at first and fears him. This whole thread is based on a quotes taken out of context. I'm not normally one to bash threads because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this thread is 100% wrong.

The quote i've used appears like this in the e-book i have...

"A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled. The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover’s hand."

I dont understand how you can say that its 2 quotes taken out of context, as if the sentences are scattered around the book and ive pasted them together.

[Xango]

The quote i've used appears like this in the e-book i have...

"A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled. The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover’s hand."

I dont understand how you can say that its 2 quotes taken out of context, as if the sentences are scattered around the book and ive pasted them together.

Maybe I'm really off, but there's a break in paragraph that seems to separate the two as different things. I'm being a bit of a dick, I apologize, but I really think the way it's presented in the text gives it a much different meaning than combining the two.

[yolkboy]

Whether it is dark magic or not is really a personal view and we get a negative view of it from the POVs we have in the story (Davos and Dany with Maz Duur). The price seems to be paid by the "donor" in Stannis' case. He ages visibly do use of his "life fire." Why would they be ruined as such. Surely, those two shadow children weren't the first she's birthed. Are you implying magic would punish her or BR would have the power to?

I'm implying that the shadow birthing has taken its toll on her body. The idea that it took its toll on Stannis might be true as well... when reading i remembering him becoming gaunt/aged/weak afterwards. There's no reason both parents of a shadow bay shouldnt suffer the consequences of this foul trickery.

[yolkboy]

Maybe I'm really off, but there's a break in paragraph that seems to separate the two as different things. I'm being a bit of a dick, I apologize, but I really think the way it's presented in the text gives it a much different meaning than combining the two.

Xango, i dont think youre being a bit of a dick, i want to get to the truth and nothing else. You're right about the gap in paragraph, but i read it that it was just a continuation of the same subject matter. A pause for breath.

I am suprised you think all of this is 100pc wrong, and that you cant find a grain of truth in any of it.

But honest feedback (although ccan sting) is not something i'm offended by, and your avatar makes it impossible for me to dislike you for.

Can i ask why you think Mel bleeds?

[Associate Maester]

I'm implying that the shadow birthing has taken its toll on her body. The idea that it took its toll on Stannis might be true as well... when reading i remembering him becoming gaunt/aged/weak afterwards. There's no reason both parents of a shadow bay shouldnt suffer the consequences of this foul trickery.

All magic requires sacrifice that seems common across the magic we've seen in the series. I don't read the blood down her thigh as indicating some consequence\punishment. One can interpret it that way, I see it more as sign the fire\"R'hllor" within her and equated to a sexual experience.

[yolkboy]

All magic requires sacrifice that seems common across the magic we've seen in the series. I don't read the blood down her thigh as indicating some consequence\punishment. One can interpret it that way, I see it more as sign the fire\"R'hllor" within her and equated to a sexual experience.

So like ive said to someone before... in a sense were both right... Mels bleeding is the cost of magic whether it be R'Hllors twisted version of arousal, or shadow birth.

[Prince of the North]

Interesting thread but, if Shiera Seastar is still boppin' around as anyone else we've seen in the series, I've always subscribed to the theory that she's Quaithe.

Also, I definitely believe Melisandre is someone who has received the "Kiss of Fire" quite some time ago (that's why we have her thoughts that she has been studying magic for "longer than she can remember"). She doesn't need to sleep or eat as "normal" people do and she gives off heat even in the north. I think she's definitely wearing a glamor herself, too.

[yolkboy]

BTW Xango believes theres a break in the paragraph i'm not showing, which changes context.... so here's the quote with the break. I believe its a continuation of the same subject matter and a pause for breath. Xango thinks its a new context which makes this thread 100% wrong. You decide....

A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled.

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover’s hand.

I'd love to know what Xango thinks is causing Mels bleeding, that would help to establish why he thinks my ideas thus far are worthless.

[Xango]

Can i ask why you think Mel bleeds?

From what I took away from her chapter, she has given her body to magic. The shadow babies and not eating/sleeping isn't natural, she's done something​ to herself via magic to be this way. Her "agony and ecstasy" is referring that the magic in her is awesome but also really screwing her body up. There's always a price to pay...and while I'm not saying BR's lover isn't still around, in fact others have speculated Quaithe, Mel instantly has a very negative reaction to seeing (and being seen) by BR in her fires.

Now to dive into pure speculation, I'd say she's just having her period. She's always warm, not even needing to layer up like everyone else at the Wall. Her blood is burning hot, all throughout her body. She has given herself, body included, to the fire.

[Lady Octarina]

When I read that chapter my impression was that her bleeding indicates her magic and Bloodraven's, the kind of magic each of them practices, are opposite - or complementary, which here would be the same - necessarily causing an unexpected reaction whenever there is a contact between them. I wouldn't be surprised if in one of Bran's chapters in TWoW we find out that seeing Melisandre causes something in them as well - perhaps not bleeding, certainly not through a vagina, but maybe the opposite? The sensation of freezing, icicles forming around them, something like that? Which takes us to the question of what would happen if both forms of magic interacted, but I don't want to upset the OP discussing Jon's fate :laugh:

As to why it was specifically the burning inside her and the black blood coming out that way, I agree it probably is the effect carrying shadowbabies - dehumanizing, in general - has on her body, and an indication she's not that invulnerable, or that maybe her getting more powerful by staying at the Wall will also lead her to destruction more quickly.

I really liked the idea that Shiera could be around, though I doubt that would be Melisandre. but this made me wonder: do we know what happened to Shiera? How she died, at what age, anything? Anyway, I vaguely recall Bloodraven telling Bran about how he observes his loved ones long gone but can't interact with them in any way or something like that, a passage that led me to the conclusion that she is, indeed, dead.