Kaukolainen Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon WAS a traitor. Did he escape from his captors ingeniously? No. He was sent by Robb (Not released) to Balon's halls to lead the fleets against Lannisport. He was to be Robb's diplomat to Balon. What did he do? Lead the attack on WF. Although he did not have any allegiance to House Stark, he was still a hostage who was in a position to stop following his captors' orders and that's what he did. He broke the agreement of honour he had with Robb, therefore betraying House Stark. But even that shouldn't have earned him a reekification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon is actually one of my favorite characters, and I have a lot of sympathy for him. Those calling him "traitor" need to consider the context of his upbringing-- he spent half his life in his homeland and half in Winterfell, so once his father decides to invade the North, he's put in a painful position- betray his family, or his friend from Winterfell, so he would be a traitor either way. I don't blame him for choosing the ironborn. After all, even though he was treated well at Winterfell, he was still the prince of the Iron Islands, so it's not like he could stay at Robb's side forever.Of course the iron born don't fully respect him, so he feels he must prove himself. I don't like a lot of what he did at Winterfell, but I can understand why he did it- he desperately wanted the respect he felt was his as prince, that which was lost from him when he was taken as a hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon WAS a traitor. Did he escape from his captors ingeniously? No. He was sent by Robb (Not released) to Balon's halls to lead the fleets against Lannisport. He was to be Robb's diplomat to Balon. What did he do? Lead the attack on WF. Although he did not have any allegiance to House Stark, he was still a hostage who was in a position to stop following his captors' orders and that's what he did. He broke the agreement of honour he had with Robb, therefore betraying House Stark. But even that shouldn't have earned him a reekification.OK. How can you be a traitor to someone you owe no allegiance to?I do see your point though, but I have to respectfully disagree. Being a traitor or turncloak is betraying those you do owe loyalty to.For example, I'm arguing about Dany's actions in the first slave city. She betrayed the slave masters when she killed them to take back her dragon. This does not make her a traitor or turncloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedFlanderStark Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Honestly, it weirds me out when I see/read people say that anybody deserves the treatment Theon received in ADWD. This guy had his skin methodically flayed off, fingers & toes (and probably Mr. Winkie) removed with zero anesthetics, smothered in his own feces and possibly raped, starved to the point where he's eating rats raw, and emotionally broken down so that he doesn't even remember who he is. He deserved death no doubt, but people think he deserved all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The Ramsay treatment is horrific. It's not about justice, it's not about prevention, it's about Ramsay playing with his food.Nobody deserves it. If someone has done something awful you lock them up forever or kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hound of sansa Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 a beheading from Robb would be most fitting for Theoni too wanted to see him punished in aCoK, but the truth is that he had a lot of remorse for what he did even in Clash. he keeps having nightmares about the children he killed, and he was ready to join the Night's Watch. The only thing he ever wanted was to be loved and respected like Nedhis thoughts about Robb in Dance were really touchingi really hope he finds some sort of peace, even if that means death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Groat Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 OP: Yes. Theon earned it.ETA: One must also conside that while Dany can travel via flying dragon, Theon can travel via crow. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unburnt Hound Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Such is the fate of a kinslayer. I know the Stark children weren't his true brothers and he was a ward, but from what is read in the books Ned treated Theon well and the children accepted him as family. Hell it seems he was treated better then Jon Snow. He killed Robb when he turned his back on him and took Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandorsstranger Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The Reek chapter with the rat is the hardest chapter in the books for me. I find myself holding my breath for the whole thing. I don't like Theon or what he's done, but every now and then I remember that he's just another player in the Game of Thrones and there's not too many playing the game that haven't done some awful things. Does Theon deserve the treatment he's had at Ramsay's hands? No, no one does and I wouldn't wish it even on Gregor Clegane (although, if Gregor IS alive in one shape or form, I wouldn't mind seeing him dealing with Ramsay, but then I think about the horrors of Qyburns 'experiments' and I'm not so sure I want any part of Gregor to be alive). Ramsay's treatment of Theon is not for any purpose other than his own amusement. Even the brutal murders and betrayals that Theon committed he did with a purpose - to win his father's love and respect and to stake his claim as his father's heir - and he did them cleanly. This doesn't make it right but I think it puts Theon in a completely different category than someone like Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon deserved/deserves the noose or the sword, no one deserves to be skinned. A swift execution would be much kinder, as I am sure Theon would agree with post his Reek treatment...Edit: Changed it to Reek treatment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lothar Imbel Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 If you think that anyone deserves 'The Reek Treatment', you're a fucked up person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lothar Imbel Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 double post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalFrodo Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 If GRRM sat down and asked me "Who do you want to die next?", I would pick Theon and ask for the worst death possible. Don't like him and I hate that he is on the redemption route in the book. I think you can only have one character redeem themselves morally and that spot is taken by Jaime.Remember your name and die Theon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lothar Imbel Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Let's use this for something else.Such is the fate of a kinslayer. I know the Stark children weren't his true brothers and he was a ward, but from what is read in the books Ned treated Theon well and the children accepted him as family. Hell it seems he was treated better then Jon Snow. He killed Robb when he turned his back on him and took Winterfell.Except he didn't kinslay. He'd only be a kinslayer if he killed his uncles or sister. If GRRM sat down and asked me "Who do you want to die next?", I would pick Theon and ask for the worst death possible. Don't like him and I hate that he is on the redemption route in the book. I think you can only have one character redeem themselves morally and that spot is taken by Jaime.Remember your name and die Theon!Why? This isn't putting you in a much better light than Ramsay tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I actually dont mind killing off characters, such paragons as Roose and Gregor/Robert, Euron etc "could stand a bit of dying" yet I dont approve of cruelty. I have no problem with having someones head lobbed off, to torture them hovewer really isnt needed nor wanted imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon WAS a traitor. Did he escape from his captors ingeniously? No. He was sent by Robb (Not released) to Balon's halls to lead the fleets against Lannisport. He was to be Robb's diplomat to Balon. What did he do? Lead the attack on WF. Although he did not have any allegiance to House Stark, he was still a hostage who was in a position to stop following his captors' orders and that's what he did. He broke the agreement of honour he had with Robb, therefore betraying House Stark. But even that shouldn't have earned him a reekification.What agreement of honour? Did Robb made Theon swear to come back if Balon refuses the offer of an alliance? I don't think so. He was released unconditionally.If you think that anyone deserves 'The Reek Treatment', you're a fucked up person.This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemrys Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Theon has a huge identity crises, on top of being manipulated into doing worse and worse actions by Reek/Ramsay. He deserves death for what he did, but not torture. No one deserves torture the way Theon got it. It's just way inhuman, and really portrays just how sickly inhuman the Boltons are (flayed man as a sigil, really?). They're pretty much the only human monsters in the series.I hated, and in a way still hate Theon for what he did. Yet, I don't want him to die, and strangely enough, without fully and really knowing why I seem to root for him. One of the best moments in aDwD was Theon's last chapter where it titled "Theon" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What *did* he deserve then? A quick death?Theon was a back-stabber (twice), a rapist, and a child-killer. If you dance with the Devil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lothar Imbel Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Two wrongs don't make a right. Or in this case: mind-breaking, sadistic and cold-blooded torture for no reason other than the amusement of a psycopath doesn't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What *did* he deserve then? A quick death?Theon was a back-stabber (twice), a rapist, and a child-killer. If you dance with the Devil...Death of any kind really.Ramsay's intention isn't to kill Theon after all, it's to turn him into a physical/emotional/sexual plaything and torture victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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