Rickon's Ward/Reagent, after Wyman Manderly's demise

[GreenHand]

Who will be Rickon's ward if Wyman Manderly dies?

There has been much solid speculation that if Rickon Stark is returned by Davos and revealed to the North some person must be selected to serve as Lord Regent and ward to Rickon until Rickon comes of age. Many threads have spoken about Rickon's use and future as a puppet and ward.

However...

Many believe, rightly I think, that Wyman Manderly is by far the best positioned to secure this role. He leading the anti-Bolton sentiment/faction in the North, has the biggest purse, the deepest lust for vengeance, clear Stark devotion, cunning plots in motion. And he will himself have Rickon in-hand.

But many posters feel that, by his actions (and own admission?), Wyman Manderly does not expect to survive this next brutal winter. He is OK with that and happy to take all manner of personal risks because his heir Wyllis is now safely back in White Harbour ruling and with daughters of his own.

I think this is not unlikely. Not only is Manderly putting a target on his head (his feelings are no true secret), but his health is not great either.

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If Wyman Manderly dies the wardship of Rickon is a much more uncertain outcome.

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Who will it be?:

One possible outcome with complex ramifications is that Lady Barbery Dustin (nee Ryswell) is given the Wardship. She is one of the most influential Northen lords/ladies. We know that she apparently secretly hates the Starks and sought to "vandalize" Ned's bones. So what would she do with Rickon. She is very adept at playing the game of thrones. We presume that she brings the voice of House Ryswell with her.

Dustins?

But she hasn't vocally chosen sides. So perhaps a fiercer Stark loyalist will get the honour.

Mormonts?

the Momonts are fiercer than most in Stark loyalties though poor. However, If we look at the attitude of the Vale Lords towards the wardship of Robert Arryn I think the rough and ready Northern Lords will prefer a male lord rather than a female. This makes the Mormonts and Dustins less likely.

Wylis Manderly?

Wylis Manderly may still get the Wardship. White Harbour is still a center of power and influence in the North.

Umbers?

The Greatjon Umber will no doubt insist on taking Rickon (he only ever stood aside for a Stark of proven mettle).

Glovers?

Robett Glover was Wyman Manderly's closest co-conspiritor (not his son, Wylis Manderlyl). So perhaps the Glover's are best positioned to assume the wardship. If the Boltons are deposed they have the alternative Hornwood heir.

Reeds?

If Howland makes an appearance I'm sure many ripples will he make, and some may secure him the wardship. He is the one in the know and none could doubt the Rickon's safety in the Neck. He could also nurture Rickons warg and greenseeing potential (no other lord can). And Howland Reed was the closest and most trusted of Ned Stark, who was supremely loved and respected. But could any lord or regent rule the North from the Neck?

House Magnar of Skagos?

Due to the influence of Osha and having spent time there Rickon himself may mobilize and trust and be like the Skagosi, compelling them to enter Northen politics and lay a claim for the Wardship as his de facto wards/protectors. For example, if Skagosi come with Rickon.

Boltons?

The Boltons may find a way to weather the hate and stay in power by accepting young Rickon as a "Stark Restoration" with much feigned celebration. But as Overlords from-moments-before take control of the hand-over process declaring themselves the wards till Rickon comes of age. Simply killing isn't as straightforward with all Northern eyes watching them and Rickon's direwolf always at his side...

[GreenHand]

...who knows. Wyman Manderly may survive. I don't think its that unlikely. But let's consider the alternative.

[Cat of the Commons]

I think the Skagos idea is interesting. If Rickon never made it into Manderly's care, I think that would be a really interesting twist.

However, i think if Manderly died after uniting with Rickon, then Wylis would be the most likely cannidate. They would want to keep the Manderly house as powerful as possible rather than passing him off to another house.

[GreenHand]

I think the Skagos idea is interesting. If Rickon never made it into Manderly's care, I think that would be a really interesting twist.

However, i think if Manderly died after uniting with Rickon, then Wylis would be the most likely cannidate. They would want to keep the Manderly house as powerful as possible rather than passing him off to another house.

But, though a capable knight, I'm not sure Wyllis is the charismatic and cunning political leader in the North that his father is/was. Would he really be able to hold onto Rickon through his own manoevring? I'm doubtful. But I agree he would inherit a very strong position for House Manderly.

[SerLoin]

Nice thread.

I really like Manderly's devotion to the ned. He would definitely be the first choice. Should he not survive...

There are no clear front-runners.

One of the houses you did not mention were the Buckets and/or the Liddles. I'm not certain of their political abilities. It could be that as long as the warden has some military prowess that might be all that is necessary. The north is isolated and foreigners have a rough time in the cold, i.e. Stannis and company.

We know so little about Skagos that making an intelligent judgement without any text to go on is just conjecture. I'm of the opinion that if a leader has the right stuff, then give them the job!

I think my 1st choice of front runner would by Wylla - Manderly's kin who is the only one to stand up to the Freys. That girl has brass stones and can see the truth.

[ab aeterno]

Depdending on his current whereabouts, and whether or not he's heading north, the Blackfish would be a possibility, being Rickon's great-uncle, or Edmure Tully if he were to be broken out from the Rock. I don't think they're likely, but I think they would be possible, assuming that Rickon is returned to WF etc. Not northerners, but are family to the Starks.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Knowing Rickon - best bet is Umbers. Especially Mors.

Of those left with Robb and survived:

Robett seems to be a great guy, he manages to take over Harrenhall (with a bit of help), considering circumstances he and Tallhart did a nice job at Duskendale, and at last he starts scheming. Successfully, I hope.

Maege Mormont - hell of a woman

Wylis Manderly - he and his brother did well in the South, despite their obesity. If he is half a man Wyman is...

Jon Umber - Robb was brain, Umber was brawn. Rickon doesn't seem a brain type, so this would be unfortunate, though very, very interesting combination.

Brynden Tully - by far greatest choice, but he probably has more pressing matters to attend in Southern Marches. He is also unaware of Rickon's existence.

Howland Reed - if he didn't leave Greywater so far... other nobles would probably have some issues with crannogman in charge.

I would rule out Ryswells and Dustins (uncertain loyalties, Barbrey is good choice though),Cerwyns (Jonelle is only survivor AFAIK), Tallharts (senior members dead), and Lockes/Flints of WW (they are with Manderlys) and Karstarks (unlikely Harrion gets home in time, Alys is occupied with cooking and producing children for her wildling prince)

Anyway this is only a speculation. Starks probably won't be restored as Kings in the North. They'll be lucky just to survive.

[ab aeterno]

Maege Mormont - hell of a woman

Considering that Rickon has spent all this time with Osha, he might respond well to the idea of someone like Maege Mormont. Even if some of the other northern Lords didn't like the idea of a woman leading, I think they might grudgingly accept a Mormont woman.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Considering that Rickon has spent all this time with Osha, he might respond well to the idea of someone like Maege Mormont. Even if some of the other northern Lords didn't like the idea of a woman leading, I think they might grudgingly accept a Mormont woman.

But they already did accept Dacey in Robb's honor guard, and they are with Boltons mostly because of "Arya", Barbrey rules Barrowton for 15 years alone, so in a way they are accustomed to women in charge. Besides, anyone that has something to say will have to talk with Maege's spiked mace first.

[ab aeterno]

But they already did accept Dacey in Robb's honor guard, and they are with Boltons mostly because of "Arya", Barbrey rules Barrowton for 15 years alone, so in a way they are accustomed to women in charge. Besides, anyone that has something to say will have to talk with Maege's spiked mace first.

I agree. I think you could make a distinction between being part of Robb's honor guard, accepting Ramsay as Lord because of his marriage to Arya, and accepting a woman in full authority, but I don't think the northerners would care too much tbh. Especially not with a Mormont.

[Manderly Chef]

I think Stannis is the most likely choice. Any Northern lord claiming the title would be seen as a power grab by the other lords and could lead to a split among the Stark loyalists, especially since as lords they are all supposed to be equals. On the other hand the northern lords respect Stannis and see him as a fair and honorable man who fights their enemies. Because he's not a member of any northern house he can claim to be an honest broker in disputes between northern lords.

[ab aeterno]

I think Stannis is the most likely choice. Any Northern lord claiming the title would be seen as a power grab by the other lords and could lead to a split among the Stark loyalists, especially since as lords they are all supposed to be equals. On the other hand the northern lords respect Stannis and see him as a fair and honorable man who fights their enemies. Because he's not a member of any northern house he can claim to be an honest broker in disputes between northern lords.

I wouldn't necessarily say that... The Mountain Clans support him because he honored them by visiting them and he is pledging justice against the Boltons, the Lady Glover supports him for liberating Deepwood Motte, the others support him because he is the last anti-Lannister player left. I can't see the northern Lords wanting to be ruled by an outsider. They might accept him as king, meaning he would be in charge anyway, but I can't see any possibility that they would accept Stannis as Lord or Lord Regent of WF, nor that Stannis would likely want the position.

[the Scorpion Knight]

And two persons aren't mentioned: Asha and davos

and what if rickon insistat of bran ?

[Manderly Chef]

I agree with all the problems you've mentioned. But I'm making a couple of assumptions about the events in the next few books. First Stannis is going to win the Battle of Ice and then take the Dreadfort from the depleted Bolton force. This will greatly increase the Stark loyalist lords' respect for him. Right after this victory there is going to be a massive war with the Others in which Stannis will play a crucial role. If Stannis survives he will be hailed as the savior of the North (probably along with Jon Snow). He may also realize that he has no support south of the Riverlands and that he should do his duty as a king and stay in the North to rebuild. Jon Snow will be offered the kingship but willl likely be uninterested.

Now my theory only works if the next books play out something like this. Otherwise Rickon's regent will be somebody else

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

I think Stannis is the most likely choice. Any Northern lord claiming the title would be seen as a power grab by the other lords and could lead to a split among the Stark loyalists, especially since as lords they are all supposed to be equals. On the other hand the northern lords respect Stannis and see him as a fair and honorable man who fights their enemies. Because he's not a member of any northern house he can claim to be an honest broker in disputes between northern lords.

Oh, a triple disagreement over one sentence:

1. It is not a power grab unless person in charge uses his/hers position to his/hers benefit. With nation at war that is unlikely. War veteran like Robett or Blackfish would be a priority.

2. Split among Stark loyalists is also unlikely - they have at least 5 common enemies: Boltons, Freys, Lannisters, Ironborn and winter. There is no better unifying force than common enemy. Especially now that they have all lost someone in the South.

3.Not all lords are equal - there are those of equal status but unequal in power (like Locke and Manderly) and there are those of lesser status sworn to those of greater status (like Stout to Dustin or Condon to Cerwyn)

[TheeMikeHoncho]

I am suprised nobody has suggested Alys Karstark. I am sure she would love to help Rickon after all Jon has done for her.

[Longspear Ryk]

Jon snow or the blackfish...... And theyd marry rickon off to manderly's little daughter thats his age thats obessed with starks

[ab aeterno]

I am suprised nobody has suggested Alys Karstark. I am sure she would love to help Rickon after all Jon has done for her.

It's not that she wouldn't want to help, but she is married to a wildling and doesn't know Rickon at all, as far as we know. Rickon would at least have seen a few of the others before, and there are likely many northern lords who would have to be considered first; even if they would accept a wildling married to the regent of WF. She is also fifteen which somewhat eliminates the point...

Edited for spelling.

[Korgus]

Jon snow or the blackfish...... And theyd marry rickon off to manderly's little daughter thats his age thats obessed with starks

She's 15.

[dtones520]

The only reason that Robett Glover was his coconspirator and not Wylis was that Wylis wasn't in White Harbor until thr night of Davos' release.