Adwd- on the menu. MYSTERY MEATS? or cannibalism

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Info on Skagos from the text:

"The island sat at the mouth of the Bay of Seals, massive and mountainous, a stark and forbidding land peopled by savages. They lived in caves and grim mountain fastnesses, Sam had read, and rode great shaggy unicorns to war. Skagos meant "stone" in the Old Tongue. The Skagosi named themselves the stoneborn, but their fellow northmen called them Skaggs and liked them little. Only a hundred years ago Skagos had risen in rebellion. Their revolt had taken years to quell and claimed the life of the Lord of Winterfell and hundreds of his sworn swords. Some songs said the Skaggs were cannibals; supposedly their warriors ate the hearts and livers of the men they slew. In ancient days, the Skagosi had sailed to the nearby isle of Skane, seized its women, slaughtered its men, and ate them on a pebbled beach in a feast that lasted for a fortnight. Skane remained unpeopled to this day."

Well there you go!!! Hahah. I thought they had the feast but I didn't want to look it up so I didnt want to sound sure...but the whole eating hearts sounds pretty ritualistic! And I do believe they wouldn't eat the women and children as they wouldn't need their power. Now native american were one of the amany tribal peoples to consume the flesh of their slain to gain power. It was also common practice in africa. The children armies are actually taught to eat the flesh sometimes. I did a research project on genocide before. A specific general would teach his soldiers to eat upon their enemies flesh to gain their strengths. The people of skane were genocided and feasted upon. I just feel there was a real ritualistic occurence here. Its mysterious and I feel it will connect to rickon being on skane. As we see bran in the cave being guided by bloodraven I think rickon maybe guided by a warrior or someone special from skane. Or even oshsa. That story felt important to me.

[Bluesnow]

I'm rereading the second book now and there are some references made to people believing Stannis' men resorted to cannibalism while defending storm's end because of the shortage of food. I can't remember who refuted it, but they said that they were very close to that point, but as far as they know no one did. They had planned as a last resort to begin eating their dead, but the onion knight came just in time and saved them.

I think this passage says alot about how bad things have gotten in the latest books. If not for starvation though, I think people are just desperate. Through all these wars and chaos human rational is fading. Since the Red Wedding, the "fine line" between human decency and lawlessness seems to be disappearing.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Yeah we've discussed the use of cannibalism for sustinance extensively. But what interests me is the use of cannibalism for ritualistic purposes like the skagosi warriors. Or bran in the cave. And the possibility of other ritual cannibalism.

I find there are several instances in all the books where people eat people for sustinance torture revenge and ritual....events like the starving people of king's landing. The protesters and the rioters....then there is the qohorik slobbery goat was fed himself...and the wizards of qarth that euron finds are fed one of themselves....but then there are the people of skagos that ate the hearts of the men of skane.

[Profion]

Yeah we've discussed the use of cannibalism for sustinance extensively. But what interests me is the use of cannibalism for ritualistic purposes like the skagosi warriors. Or bran in the cave. And the possibility of other ritual cannibalism.

Here in Brazil a couple of Indian tribes used to eat their most brave enemies captured in battles, because they believe that their courage and strenght would be absorbed. I think the Skagos ritual drives from same source.

[Men in their cups say...]

Stannis had begun to save the bodies of the dead 'Just in Case.' It's implied that the Onion Knight saved Stannis from having to make that difficult decision. I do think this makes Stannis a bit of a hypocrite though for burning those four men. Either hes a hypocrite or he's trying to appease his Rhllor followers despite his own sense of right and wrong, very unstannis of him (no I don't mean he's a zombie). I think cannibalism for survival could definitely drive a wedge between Stannis' northern and southern men. As much as a badass as he can be, especially in the WoW Theon chapter, I worry about Stanny...

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I don't even like to think about stannis too much cause I find stannis is a terrible leader and king and I only want him in the story to fail in an epic fashion.

Let's discuss ritualistic cannibalism. Its a worldwide thing from south america, to europe, to africa, to asia, to australia and new zealand, and in the south pacific and tribal america.

Now in asoiaf universe we have had tons of instances or hints of cannabilistic behavior. So I think based on george using our world as inspiration to creat his universe that we may find more ritualistic cannibalism to come. From the skagosi who feasted on the hearts of their slain enemies. Or the possibility of bran eating jojen to gain his power. I think if bran ate jojen or used his blood in the paste...that jojen consented. He would of known the sacrifice he was making to open bran's abilities and allow him to be a greenseer with the trees.

[evita mgfs]

In Last of Mohicans, Magua eating the heart of Duncan, was it? :ack:

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Only saw the beginning of that!! But I love daniel day lewis. I find ritual cannibalism something GRRM would use...with such a firm basis in our own history. He could twist it into a magnifecent reaccurence in skagos or beyond the wall. Or in the north. We'll see cannibalism for survival and maybe more ritualistic cannibalism

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

In Last of Mohicans, Magua eating the heart of Duncan, was it? :ack:

And thank you so much for introducing me to so spake martin!!! I can't believe I hadn't read this stuff yet.

[evita mgfs]

And thank you so much for introducing me to so spake martin!!! I can't believe I hadn't read this stuff yet.

No! Where do you get all your info? You seem to always back up all your assertions with text evidence and quotes from Martin! You amaze me! Good with the GRRM. Like I said, I cannot believe how you've grown with your writing on this site. But I know you are trying as well - and pacticing the writing craft daily will keep improving your control of tne language.

Thanks! Keep your eye open for Homer as well, Did you read this yet?http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html

Did anyone mention the heart tree located near Stannis' camp? Asha thinks it looks like blood in the mouth. So people have already started with the sacrifices. I want to read more of the heresy threads. I think they get into cannibalism big time.

Keep up the good work, Lord Liam DarkStark :bowdown: !!!!

[Profion]

Talking about Asha... I think there´s something wrong in the fact that she knows too much about northern culture, how the hell she knows that in the north they keep the old ways (the man who passes the sentence shall swing the sword) and specially, what´s the point of wanting that Theon get executed in front of a Heart Tree?? There´s a possibility that someone (maybe BR) warged her?

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Talking about Asha... I think there´s something wrong in the fact that she knows too much about northern culture, how the hell she knows that in the north they keep the old ways (the man who passes the sentence shall swing the sword) and specially, what´s the point of wanting that Theon get executed in front of a Heart Tree?? There´s a possibility that someone (maybe BR) warged her?

hmmm, IDK, The Iron Islands is technically a part of the north so her knowledge of some practices may not be that far out of left field...

@LordLiamDarkStark your input on here is good.. but you're still double posting a lot! LOL. I can't really congratulate you on 1000 posts. :cool4:

[7V3N]

My theory:

The Starks and the Northmen used to be wargs (or at least it was much more common). They embraced their "wolfsblood" when warging. Remember, Bran enjoys the hunt, likes tasting blood, and stays as Summer for days at a time. Lancel and the Freys claim the Northmen turn into wolves and eat the bodies of the slain. Sounds like what the North used to be before the Andal influence. I think Skagos will show us what the North used to be like and what First Men really were.

[K26dp]

Cannibalism does seem to be part and parcel of the old faith (or Old Faith) practiced in the North. The Skagosi (who I will discuss because as a semi-civilized island nation are most likely to have maintained the old faith) seem to practice endocannibalism, which is the eating of your own dead rather than enemy dead (exocannibalism), which has typically be practiced as a way to maintain the strength of a tribe or group (ie. the strength of the lost member is returned into the survivors, leaving the tribe at the same level it started at), rather than increase it. This has interesting implications for its use in magic rituals, as it is not really a way to increase the wielders power. Of course a society which has no problems with eating their own dead is may have fewer compunctions about doing other things to the bodies of their enemies. Blood sacrifices are specifically mentioned as being part of the old faith which leads me to believe that while the cannibalism practiced amongst the northmen is culturally/spiritually significant it is not religious/magical in nature or purpose. One sacrifices to the Old Gods for aid, one consumes the fallen to sustain the tribe.

This resonated with me, since I'm re-reading Dune. The Fremen society pass the rendered water from a corpse down to the deseased's family in such a way, so that the water is retained by the tribe after death. We know that Dune has been an influence for Martin, perhaps the Skagosi, living in an extreme enviornment like the Fremen, have similar habits and rituals. If the parallel holds, it could mean little Rickon is the Paul Atreides of the story, and all that comes with it.

Probably not, but there you go.

[gogorath]

People think the "sow" that Coldhands brought was actually a pig?

Coldhands leaves to kill some human/wight enemies. Coldhands returns after doing so, but miraculously with a hunk of meat he calls pig. Though the group has not seen any animal of that size for ages.

Hmmmm.

[evita mgfs]

Talking about Asha... I think there´s something wrong in the fact that she knows too much about northern culture, how the hell she knows that in the north they keep the old ways (the man who passes the sentence shall swing the sword) and specially, what´s the point of wanting that Theon get executed in front of a Heart Tree?? There´s a possibility that someone (maybe BR) warged her?

My Wild idea - your post made me think of her nuncle the Reader.

He fills her head with lots of stuff. He probably shared info of old gods and Northern practices with her on a visit before she set sail.

I do not know if that fits with the timeline everyone talks about. She is fond of Nuncle Rodrik - they seem tight. Maybe?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

No! Where do you get all your info? You seem to always back up all your assertions with text evidence and quotes from Martin! You amaze me! Good with the GRRM. Like I said, I cannot believe how you've grown with your writing on this site. But I know you are trying as well - and pacticing the writing craft daily will keep improving your control of tne language.

Thanks! Keep your eye open for Homer as well, Did you read this yet?http://www.adriasnew...-interview.html

Did anyone mention the heart tree located near Stannis' camp? Asha thinks it looks like blood in the mouth. So people have already started with the sacrifices. I want to read more of the heresy threads. I think they get into cannibalism big time.

Keep up the good work, Lord Liam DarkStark :bowdown: !!!!

thank you! Your a very brilliant teacher. I've only had high school A.P. literature. Plus i only use the internet on my phone for this site. So all my writing is done via cell phone. But most of my ideas I make up myself as I read and bits and pieces of what I read on the site stick in my mind. I do hope to improve though. I just don't know why its taking me so long to check out so spake martin i first heard of it when I made a daenerys the unburnt forum.

I have read that brilliant interview. It really reassured the direction martin is going with the stories. We may not have answers yet but at aleast his interviews reveal ways for us to review his work more in depth and understand the kind of story he is telling with the point he is trying to make.

I do find that the cannablism that sparked the sacrifice stannis made was a preview of winter. And that the cannabilism was for sustinance. The heresy threads are great for the non typical views. I find that ritualic cannabalism will appear again in the stories though. I'm sure we'll see lots of regular old cannabilism for survival too.

I did find that part with asha at the weirwood odd but everyone always compares the sap of the weirwood to blood but I do really wonder if theon will be sacrificed there

And I'll try my best! I'm really learning a ton from these forums!

My Wild idea - your post made me think of her nuncle the Reader.

He fills her head with lots of stuff. He probably shared info of old gods and Northern practices with her on a visit before she set sail.

I do not know if that fits with the timeline everyone talks about. She is fond of Nuncle Rodrik - they seem tight. Maybe?

Wow I really do like this idea! But I don't think he would of had the chance as she ran in the black of night to flee the kingsmoot. So the reader was still on old wyk when she stopped to say good bye to her mother and collect the lady glover

My theory:

The Starks and the Northmen used to be wargs (or at least it was much more common). They embraced their "wolfsblood" when warging. Remember, Bran enjoys the hunt, likes tasting blood, and stays as Summer for days at a time. Lancel and the Freys claim the Northmen turn into wolves and eat the bodies of the slain. Sounds like what the North used to be before the Andal influence. I think Skagos will show us what the North used to be like and what First Men really were.

I agree, I had several simialr thoughts about how skagos does thing in thr north's version of the old way. Like the iron islands return to the old way OMG which makes me think what if rickon brings the north back to the old way!

[Profion]

I´ve always wondered if the "North Remembers" means that the North Remembers the time of Starks as Winter Kings and wargs, and maybe the "savage" way is the right one for them?

[7V3N]

The Rat Cook fed one of the Andal kings his sons. Maybe it was a "f*** you" to the Andals and the limitations they imposed after forcing the North to accept their laws.

[hotweaselsoup]

You know, I wonder if Rickon is dead - killed maybe by the Skagosi, or in a shipwreck? But he would be living his second life in Shaggydog, of course. We have a Stark who has lost her wolf in Sansa. Maybe we'll get a wolf who has lost his Stark in Shaggy?

Sorry for the momentary digression away from cannibalism.