Why Stannis wouldn't be a good king

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Who says? We haven't had any POVs...

Stannis says...

He moved to the south window to gaze out at the moonlit sea. “I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.”

“If you do not believe in gods-”

“-why trouble with this new one?” Stannis broke in. “I have asked myself as well. I know little and care less of gods, but the red priestess has power.”

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I think he would be a good king, the only thing that may make him a bad king is his uncompromising ways.

He is compromising when provided a reason to be compromising.

[Kolantero]

I think he would easily be a much better king that all current competitors (perhaps Jon would be on the same level but i'd still go with Stannis)

[Lion of Judah]

He is compromising when provided a reason to be compromising.

Like an offer he can't refuse.

[Knight Of Winter]

This seems like a very nice post Knight of Winter, but I'm not able to comment on most of it just now as you have pushed me to the breaking point and I need to rant. :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

...

Six head-bangers? I didn't mean my post to be rant-inducing in such a measure :P

As you said, Stannis had much less choice in choosing his advisors then other lords and kings. If he had some smart and honest lord in his service he would have probably made him his Hand, as any sensible king would do. I was merely applauding his decision to choose a commoner and made him lord and Hand instead of keeping listening to foolish lords like Florents, like most others would have done in his place. This and similar acts, as well as some of his quotes (e.g. Every man shall reap what he sowed) lead me to think he puts greater importance to abilities then birth (like I said, a rarity in Westeros).

Most of the characters who aren't idiots do appoint the most suitable person they have available to the task in hand. Stannis does not deserve special credit for this.

I believe you are wrong here. If put in Stannis's position and faced with same choice, how many lords and kings of Westeros would choose the best man for the job (Davos) instead of some incompetent lord? Not many, I think. For example, out of several contenders for the IT - Dany surrounds herself with questionable advisors, Cersei with yes-men, Tywin expresses distaste for commoner elevated to status of a lord (Janos Slynt)...

Btw, Stannis's choice of Davos does not speak much of his leadership skills; but "just" of his ability to recognize and value good council

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I so fed up with people pointing to Stannis' appointment of Davos as a Hand as evidence that Stannis is a good leader.

It is evidence of Stannis being not only a good leader but a good man.

It just highlights the paucity of decent men that Stannis has been able to attract to his banner. Which is entirely a failing of Stannis that decent men are so unwilling to serve him.

Or maybe there aren't that many decent men around to flock to his banner, which is what I have noticed while reading the series. Men are too busy looking for power and position to be concerned with doing and following what is right. Rather than cater to these men, Stannis still stands by his own views and carries on without them. He could have easily gained a powerful house or more favor by appointing a powerful lord as his hand, but he chose to do the right thing and appoint Davos. Stannis knows how the high lords around him view Davos but could care less because Davos is a good and honest man. In my view, that is definitely evidence that Stannis is a good leader.

A sensible ranking for preference of who should be serving in the capacity of 'kings chief advisor' is smart noble > smart commoner > idiot noble. Stannis made the best choice available to him when he picked Davos but that is because he did not have any smart nobles serving him. He has the Florents, ambitious enough to see Stannis has enough power favours, too idiotic to realise Stannis aint the favour granting type.

Still, Stannis could have chosen one of the Florents or any other noble around him to illicit favor with his men, but he did not. He did what a good leader should do and chose the man best fitted for the job. Yes, Davos was the only good choice he had available, but he could have easily made a bad choice in order to look good to everyone else.

Other commanders during the Wot5K had the backing of more men than Stannis, and so didn't find themselves surrounded by 'flatterers and fools' (Stannis' own words) when they called a council of their captains.

There were "flatterers and fools" in every mix, but it just so happens that the other commanders had enough men to balance things. Stannis didn't have enough men because the men that should have done the honorable thing chose to follow Renly because they craved position and power.

Probably in Robb's army there were smart and loyal commoners, and probably they got promoted to positions of responibility as sergeants and leaders of scouting parties. Did he appoint any of them as a high advisor, no. Not because he could not recognise their worth, but because he had as his closest advisor the Blackfish - who in terms of loyalty or blunt speaking to his king is every bit Davos' equal (both leave fools like the Florents in the dust) but who also already has learning, experience and respect given to him by highborn and low because of his station in life.

As much as I love and adore Robb, him and his men should have also joined with Stannis against the Lannisters. That would have been the smart move. Stannis cannot be blamed for not having a good highborn adviser in his mist. Those were the cards dealt to him.

Most of the characters who aren't idiots do appoint the most suitable person they have available to the task in hand. Stannis does not deserve special credit for this.

Yes, he does; because doing so further weakened his position with his men and further weakened the view others had of him, while he was already in a vulnerable state as far as gaining men and winning the War of the Five Kings.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Like an offer he can't refuse.

He can refuse any offer made to him if he is truly uncompromising.

Btw, Stannis's choice of Davos does not speak much of his leadership skills; but "just" of his ability to recognize and value good council

I disagree, because I think a good leader should make good decisions regardless of the outcome or fall-out--as Stannis did by choosing Davos.

[Artos Stark]

I personally think Stannis would make a terrible king and I'm kinda glad that we likely will never see him sit the throne. The guy since he declared himself King has made absolutely terrible decisions. The only one of his decisions that I liked was going to the wall to help the watch. Outside of that it has been bone head move after bone head move. Plus I don't like his sense of entitlement that he's held onto this whole book, he's looked like a spoiled brat to me.

Edit: I also like him giving power to Davos

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

I wonder if GRRM ever thought Stannis would become as popular as he is?? one think I don't get is why he insisted on taking davos' fingers? I get all the good he has done for Davos but really Stan can't you just let the man be??

[Artos Stark]

I wonder if GRRM ever thought Stannis would become as popular as he is?? one think I don't get is why he insisted on taking davos' fingers? I get all the good he has done for Davos but really Stan can't you just let the man be??

He's certainly one of the more polarizing figures in the series

[Tony Soprano]

I wonder if GRRM ever thought Stannis would become as popular as he is?? one think I don't get is why he insisted on taking davos' fingers? I get all the good he has done for Davos but really Stan can't you just let the man be??

Davos was a smuggler. Even when he saved Stannis and the garrison of Storm's End, he did it by smuggling. One of Stannis' best qualities is justice and equality. He took away his fingers for his previous crimes, and as thanks for saving his life, awarded him a title and lands.

As he himself points out, a good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good.

And he has let him be. Davos is one of Stannis' closest advisers, and maybe the only man he thinks of as his friends. He named him Hand. What more could Davos ask for?

And, more importantly, he managed to secure the undying loyalty of a man he maimed. Wouldn't you like to have such a man as your ruler?

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Davos was a smuggler. Even when he saved Stannis and the garrison of Storm's End, he did it by smuggling. One of Stannis' best qualities is justice and equality. He took away his fingers for his previous crimes, and as thanks for saving his life, awarded him a title and lands.

As he himself points out, a good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good.

And he has let him be. Davos is one of Stannis' closest advisers, and maybe the only man he thinks of as his friends. He named him Hand. What more could Davos ask for?

And, more importantly, he managed to secure the undying loyalty of a man he maimed. Wouldn't you like to have such a man as your ruler?

I can see arguing about Stannis with a guy called Axel Baratheon, Kings man is fuitile but honestly no, like i said I realise how good Stannis has been to Davos, taking the fingers just seems unnesesary, I could also think of a lot better rulers for me, personaly I support meritcracy so looks like it is vase Dothrak for me!

[Nick Baratheon]

Because he doesn't have a sense of humor, hahahahaha

dude....Stannis is one of the most comically talented characters in the whole song!

[Tony Soprano]

I can see arguing about Stannis with a guy called Axel Baratheon, Kings man is fuitile but honestly no, like i said I realise how good Stannis has been to Davos, taking the fingers just seems unnesesary, I could also think of a lot better rulers for me, personaly I support meritcracy so looks like it is vase Dothrak for me!

Well, technically, one could call Stannis' rule a meritocracy. It was Davos' talents and his merit that helped him advance in Stannis' service. If it wasn't for his skills as a smuggler, he never would have gotten the Ser in front of his name.

Also, I'm curious, who do you think would make a better ruler than Stannis?

Tommen?

Euron?

Aegon?

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Well, technically, one could call Stannis' rule a meritocracy. It was Davos' talents and his merit that helped him advance in Stannis' service. If it wasn't for his skills as a smuggler, he never would have gotten the Ser in front of his name.

Also, I'm curious, who do you think would make a better ruler than Stannis?

Tommen?

Euron?

Aegon?

renly for sure.

Tommen is a sweet boy and I could see he developing into a very good king, provided he doesn't get the cerci treatment!

Robb was a pretty sound king (though he made mistakes I would definatly have him over Stan

And aegon by all acounts has the training to be a Great king!!

[Tony Soprano]

renly for sure.

Tommen is a sweet boy and I could see he developing into a very good king, provided he doesn't get the cerci treatment!

Robb was a pretty sound king (though he made mistakes I would definatly have him over Stan

And aegon by all acounts has the training to be a Great king!!

Renly was good at playing King, just like Cressen said. He enjoyed the feast, the royal lifestyle, and being in the spotlight. But that was it. He wasn't a good diplomat, nor is he a good general. A King needs at least one of those qualities to be able to solidify his reign.

Tommen does have the potential to become a good King, but I don't think he's ever going to become one. Not with all the vultures surrounding him. The only one who cared for him at court was Kevan, and now, with him dead, Mace Tyrell can use him in anyway he wants to further his own ambitions.

Robb was a very good commander, with great advisers, but in the end, he lost his kingdom. That speaks volumes about him. He was meant to be a general, leading troops on the battlefield. When it comes to diplomacy, he's just as inept as his father was.

We don't know a lot about Aegon besides Varys' claims that he's been trained and groomed for rule. Can we really trust a man who's known to make a living from weaving lies? From what we have seen however, Aegon seems hotheaded and impulsive. A true Targaryen.

[direwolf_of_white_fangs]

Because Stannis is the man!!

Who came to add the wall at the most critical time?

STANNIS!! STANNIS!! STANNIS!!

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

dude....Stannis is one of the most comically talented characters in the whole song!

And he doesn't even know that he's funny! :laugh:

[mankytoes]

Stannis says...

He moved to the south window to gaze out at the moonlit sea. “I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.”

“If you do not believe in gods-”

“-why trouble with this new one?” Stannis broke in. “I have asked myself as well. I know little and care less of gods, but the red priestess has power.”

Lol my apologies, I really need a reread, I swear I missed so much information, just concentrating on keeping up with peoples names I guess.

[Darth Visenya]

Well, technically, one could call Stannis' rule a meritocracy. It was Davos' talents and his merit that helped him advance in Stannis' service. If it wasn't for his skills as a smuggler, he never would have gotten the Ser in front of his name.

Also, I'm curious, who do you think would make a better ruler than Stannis?

Tommen?

Euron?

Aegon?

I would quite like to see Littlefinger on the Iron Throne.