Lannister Plans for Storm's End

[otherbeef]

You mean ladies who rule in their own right and pass their name to their children? Sure - there are Lady Oakheart in Reach and Lady Waynwood in Vale (one of Lords Declarant), for example.

ah yes these are good examples thanks, weird how we don't know who eithers husbands are.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

do we have other examples of the male taking the females name? or of children taking the mother's name over the father?

All the time. Sons taking their mother's maiden name, grandsons taking their grandparents name. Somme examples are Bael the Bard's son, the Mormont Ladies (and Aly's son), the Hornwood nephew. Harrold Hardyng is expected to do if he inherits the Eyrie, Lancel either took the Darry name or at least seriously considered it.

Orys, believed to be Aegon the Conquerer's bastard brother, married the stormlord's daughter and kept her name, banner, honors, and words. So a man has taken a woman's name before when she "outranked" him. He was a bastard though, so it may be different for Tyrstane.

Actually he kept his own name. Banner, honors and words he took, but the Durrendon line ended when he raped Argilac's daughter and fathered Baratheons on her.

[Fat Mac]

I never even thought of giving it to Myrcella, but it makes a lot of sense.

Another thought; when Joffrey was king and Stannis and Renly were considered traitors, I wonder if they would've given Storm's End to Tommen and Dragonstone to Myrcella or something.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

Why the hell didn't King Bob merge the Crownlands (including Dragonstone) and the Stormlands into one royal fiefdom ruled directly by House Baratheon from King's Landing? Would have made it all much simpler and better.

(I would personally also change the seat of the royal heir to Storm's End from Dragonstone, upgrading the ancestral Baratheon seat to the crown prince's castle while reducing the Targ island-fortress to a mere headquarters for a portion of the Royal Fleet).

[Ramsay Gimp]

Why the hell didn't King Bob merge the Crownlands (including Dragonstone) and the Stormlands into one royal fiefdom ruled directly by House Baratheon from King's Landing? Would have made it all much simpler and better.

(I would personally also change the seat of the royal heir to Storm's End from Dragonstone, upgrading the ancestral Baratheon seat to the crown prince's castle while reducing the Targ island-fortress to a mere headquarters for a portion of the Royal Fleet).

I and others have said exactly this in other threads. It's kind of asking for trouble to keep the Crownlands so small

[The Red Star]

give it to myrcella or one of tommens sons when he has some, employ a castellan to run things till then

[Burning down the House]

If Mycrella is to get storms end who is going to get Casterly Rock? A Lannister not of Tywins line?

[The Red Star]

If Mycrella is to get storms end who is going to get Casterly Rock? A Lannister not of Tywins line?

They can both be held untill Tommen has heirs

[Lady's Secret]

Actually he kept his own name. Banner, honors and words he took, but the Durrendon line ended when he raped Argilac's daughter and fathered Baratheons on her.

I stand corrected. :D

However, he did marry her so saying he raped her is a bit much.

[True_lord_of_york]

Lancel is still a lannister. The only thing he changed was his standard which has the lannister lion and colors but quarters by plowman

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

I and others have said exactly this in other threads. It's kind of asking for trouble to keep the Crownlands so small

I think this should have been an endgoal for Tywin - merge the Crownlands, Stormlands, Westerlands (all through Joffrey and later Tommen's claims) and Riverlands (by not promoting freakin' lowborn Littlefinger to a Lord Paramount, as if the riverlords would ever accept him, and instead claiming the Trident directly for the Iron Throne - the Tullys are attainted and deposed, all the riverlords have bent the knee anyway, and most importantly the region is very easy to hold and nearby/sandwiched in between the Crownlands, Stormlands and Westerlands), into one giant royal fiefdom ruled directly by House 'Baratheon' of King's Landing (i.e. his Lannister bastard grandsons) from the Iron Throne.

No more Lord Paramounts of the Stormlands, Westerlands and Riverlands, and Storm's End, Casterly Rock, Riverrun and Dragonstone downgraded in status to normal lordly seats. This new enlarged Crownlands will be the most powerful Kingdom in Westeros, especially if he can incorporate the Riverlands (the Freys will assist with this, just give Emmon Riverrun to hold).

[Grip]

I think that Tywin's plans to make Harrenhal his seat, at wars end, is just as interesting a concept. That would certainly have changed the Riverlands aswell as the West. Depriving both Casterly Rock and Riverrun of parts of their influence.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think this should have been an endgoal for Tywin - merge the Crownlands, Stormlands, Westerlands (all through Joffrey and later Tommen's claims) and Riverlands (by not promoting freakin' lowborn Littlefinger to a Lord Paramount, as if the riverlords would ever accept him, and instead claiming the Trident directly for the Iron Throne - the Tullys are attainted and deposed, all the riverlords have bent the knee anyway, and the most importantly the region is very easy to hold and nearby/sandwiched in between the Crownlands, Stormlands and Westerlands), into one giant royal fiefdom ruled directly by House 'Baratheon' of King's Landing (i.e. his Lannister bastard grandsons) from the Iron Throne.

No more Lord Paramounts of the Stormlands, Westerlands and Riverlands, and Storm's End, Casterly Rock, Riverrun and Dragonstone downgraded in status to normal lordly seats. This new enlarged Crownlands will be the most powerful Kingdom in Westeros, especially if he can incorporate the Riverlands (the Freys will assist with this, just give Emmon Riverrun to hold).

I think that might have been a little too ambitious. A fief that large and populous would be hard to administer effectively from a centralized location like KL. And I think Tywin would have wanted to keep Casterly Rock and the Westerlands separate anyway - it would lower Lannister prestige to demote their seat to "normal lordly status."

But I agree on absorbing the Stormlands and giving the Trident to someone other than Littlefinger - Emmon Frey would have made more sense from a Lannister POV

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think that Tywin's plans to make Harrenhal his seat, at wars end, is just as interesting a concept. That would certainly have changed the Riverlands aswell as the West. Depriving both Casterly Rock and Riverrun of parts of their influence.

Make Harrenhall whose seat?

[Grip]

Tywins, and House Lannister in the long run I suppose.

Edit;

The talk was that Lord Tywin planned to restore Harrenhal to glory, and make it his new seat once the war was done. ACOK page 456 (paperback) I seem to have misremembered, I thought it was more stated as fact rather then a rumour but still, it could have happened.

[Grip]

Edited

[Ramsay Gimp]

Edited

Yea, is that from an Arya chapter? Since we never see Tywin act on this I think we can dismiss it as kithcen gossip

[Grip]

Yeah thats one of the Arya chapters, and true when rereading it I agree it seems to be nothing more then kitchen gossip. Though Tywin would be one of the few Lords to actually have the funds to restore it, aswell as garrison it.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

I think that might have been a little too ambitious. A fief that large and populous would be hard to administer effectively from a centralized location like KL. And I think Tywin would have wanted to keep Casterly Rock and the Westerlands separate anyway - it would lower Lannister prestige to demote their seat to "normal lordly status."

I disagree, kingdoms are forged in such ways.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I stand corrected. :D

However, he did marry her so saying he raped her is a bit much.

Marriage doesn't prevent rape. Well, at least in modern society. And the bride, who stated she would rather die a queen than bend the knee is delivered naked and chained to the bridegroom...