Is there a Stark above ten who didn't have a hand in a false trial?

[Fire and Lemoncakes]

Sansa lied to forestall justice on Dontos Hollard, then perjured against Marillion.

Arya killed the NW deserter with no authority to do so.

Cat forced the Imp into trial by combat when word stood against word.

Robb let Cat get away with no punishment after she freed Jaime.

Ned beheaded innocent Lady, I mean jfc.

I see a pattern there. To conclude, the notion that the Starks stand for justice has been disproven over and over.

And to answer the question: yes, Benjen Stark.

[therealbando]

To be fair, Ned had to carry out a sentence ordered by the king (there was nothing else left to do), Sansa saved Dontos`s life who didn`t do anything to deserve to be killed in the first place, and while I don`t agree with Arya doing it, Daeron got what was coming for him (he was a deserter + he was mocking the NW).

[Alester Florent]

Trial by combat is perfectly legitimate in Westeros, just as much so as trial by judge. That the judge was horrendously biased wasn't Cat's fault, and she acted pretty reasonably once she realised the problem there.

I'm not even going to bother with the Lady thing, or the Jaime release, which is basically old hat. Nor, I think, does Sansa's bluff to save Dontos count as a miscarriage of justice or false trial.

[Dr. Pepper]

Sometimes justice simply doesn't work in the most just of ways and lies are necessary to spare unjust punishment or to protect one's self.

Sansa lied to forestall justice on Dontos Hollard, then perjured against Marillion.

The 'justice' towards Dontos was a death sentence simply for a perceived insult to the king. Dontos was a drunk. He wasn't committing treason against the crown or murder or rape. Dontos humiliated himself and made a spectacle at the king's nameday tournament, but there did not seem to be a law against public inebriation. He did not deserve a death sentence and Sansa did the right thing for speaking up for him, even if it meant lying to save a life. This is not an example of a miscarriage of justice but an example of a character attempting to correct 'justice' in the best way she knew how.

I agree she perjured herself when it came to Marillion, but Marillion locked her in a room with someone who tried to kill her, then played loud music to cover her terrified screams. What else was she expected to do?

Arya killed the NW deserter with no authority to do so.

I agree that Arya probably did not have the authority to kill a NW deserter, though I think she likely thought that as a member of House Stark, she did.

Cat forced the Imp into trial by combat when word stood against word.

This isn't an example of false justice. Cat arrested Tyrion legally and placed him on trial. She had reasonable reason to believe that her evidence was accurate. Trial by combat is a perfectly legitimate form of judgement in Westeros.

Robb let Cat get away with no punishment after she freed Jaime.

This is complicated. First, Cat was the King's mother. He couldn't exactly behead his own mother. He also couldn't really punish her when at the time, he was revealing that he'd broken a betrothal contract with one of his vassals. However, punishment came further down the road when she was meant to have been made an "honored guest" at Seagard.

Ned beheaded innocent Lady, I mean jfc.

Ned was ordered by the king to kill Lady. It's too bad he didn't take a page from Sansa's book and find a way to curtail the "king's justice".

I see a pattern there. To conclude, the notion that the Starks stand for justice has been disproven over and over.

I don't see a pattern based on the examples you've provided. I tend to see the Starks as individuals in one family, not as a set of identical personalities with identical ideals. There have been bad Starks and good Starks. While I think those in the family share a similar Stark identity, I think the history of House Stark tells us that there are good apples and bad apples and apples in between without the long history of their house.

And to answer the question: yes, Benjen Stark.

For all we know, Benjen could be a deserter getting jiggy with the Queen of the Others right now. ;)

[The BlackBear]

Robb let Cat get away with no punishment after she freed Jaime.

Just on this one, Robb was putting her under house arrest at Seaguard effectively. Not a terrible punishment, but no one, aside from Karstark (who'd lost his mind by this point) excpetc him to do any worse to his own mother and heir to the Riverunn.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

This isn't an example of false justice. Cat arrested Tyrion legally and placed him on trial. She had reasonable reason to believe that her evidence was accurate. Trial by combat is a perfectly legitimate form of judgement in Westeros.

No she did not. She does not have the autority to arrest someone with no permission, no proof or just trial. She THOUGH Tyrion is guilty - if that was enough proof for arrest then Westeros has the most messed up legal system in all the fantacy world - a woman of equal status to a man though him guilty and arrested him with to proof to bring him to a mock trial and torment (the sky cages).

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

ups.

[Dr. Pepper]

No she did not. She does not have the autority to arrest someone with no permission, no proof or just trial. She THOUGH Tyrion is guilty - if that was enough proof for arrest then Westeros has the most messed up legal system in all the fantacy world - a woman of equal status to a man though him guilty and arrested him with to proof to bring him to a mock trial and torment (the sky cages).

Westeros doesn't have sheriffs and deputies running around maintaining the king's justice. That's what the nobility is for. Catelyn arrested him in the king's name and brought him to stand trial. Lady Lysa, as regent of the Vale, made a mockery of the trial. Still, the trial was won in Tyrion's favor.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Westeros doesn't have sheriffs and deputies running around maintaining the king's justice. That's what the nobility is for. Catelyn arrested him in the king's name and brought him to stand trial. Lady Lysa, as regent of the Vale, made a mockery of the trial. Still, the trial was won in Tyrion's favor.

Nobility judges commoners not other nobility - if Tyrion is to be judged it will be by the king not by Catelyn. Also Catelyn has no power - her position comes from Ned and he is the one with power - she forced Tyrion with soldiers who owed loyalty to her father. Tyrion and Catelyn are of equal sotial status - both of the nobility but with no power of their own - she is not his superior and has no right to judge him.

[Naathi Prince]

No she did not. She does not have the autority to arrest someone with no permission, no proof or just trial. She THOUGH Tyrion is guilty - if that was enough proof for arrest then Westeros has the most messed up legal system in all the fantacy world - a woman of equal status to a man though him guilty and arrested him with to proof to bring him to a mock trial and torment (the sky cages).

Why would Catelyn believe that her sister would not give Tyrion a fair trial?

[Ducks in a Field]

I agree that Cat had no legal authority to arrest Tyrion. She seizes him in her father's lands by calling upon her father's bannermen, saying if they are loyal to him then they will do as she says.

She later rebukes people loyal to Edmure because her father is not dead yet, basically angry at Edmure for doing the same thing.

Cat would have had the authority if she were in the north, as acting castellan - In the Riverlands she used a familial connection to get what she wanted.

((I will point out, that if she went and asked Hoster or his steward I am 99% certain that he would have said yes, and that 1% only comes from the hindsight that the Lannisters would raise there banners against the riverlands as a result. So the point that this wasn't legal, whilst correct, is only a technicality))

I can forgive Cat alot that she is accused of. I don't blame her for how she is with Jon, and I think she tries very hard to balance giving advice to Robb and being a good mother.

I would even argue that with the evidence she has then arresting Tyrion might even be the MORAL thing to do - It was certainly not legal however, even if only by technicality.

[Naathi Prince]

Nobility judges commoners not other nobility - if Tyrion is to be judged it will be by the king not by Catelyn. Also Catelyn has no power - her position comes from Ned and he is the one with power - she forced Tyrion with soldiers who owed loyalty to her father.

Not all the time, the Lady and Lord of the Vale have more power than Tyrion, and thus can judge him. That's why Tyrion spends the whole time thinking how wise it would be for Cersei to insist that Robert demand to try Tyrion himself.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Not all the time, the Lady and Lord of the Vale have more power than Tyrion, and thus can judge him. That's why Tyrion spends the whole time thinking how wise it would be for Cersei to insist that Robert demand to try Tyrion himself.

They can judge him if he is in their lands - he did not go there by his own wish but was forced by Cat.

[Ducks in a Field]

Not all the time, the Lady and Lord of the Vale have more power than Tyrion, and thus can judge him. That's why Tyrion spends the whole time thinking how wise it would be for Cersei to insist that Robert demand to try Tyrion himself.

Bar the king the Lord or Lady paramount is the ultimate authority over a region and can try anyone for a crime. Whilst the king can override them I do not think it is usual (Although I am sure Robert would have if he had heard aout this before it happened - He does order Ned to tell Cat to release Tyrion).

However Catelyn was in the Riverlands when she took Tyrion, this is why she had to go north or to the Vale in the first place. She has no legal authority in the Riverlands.

The disscusion is about false trials though, so no - Cat hasn't been involved in any of those. The trial at the Vale was a farce, but carried out by the proper legal authority.

[Dr. Pepper]

They can judge him if he is in their lands - he did not go there by his own wish but was forced by Cat.

Presumably, anyone who is arrested does not go by their own wish.

[mcb]

Sansa lied to forestall justice on Dontos Hollard, then perjured against Marillion.

What justice on Dontos? He was drunk, Joffrey decided it was a capital offense, and Sansa argued that it would be bad mojo? Yeah, she was awful.

Arya killed the NW deserter with no authority to do so.

As we may have learned as early as the first chapter of AGOT (those of us who have read the books, anyway), a deserter's life was forfeit.

Cat forced the Imp into trial by combat when word stood against word.

Let me see. She believed her evidence was sound. Tyrion demanded a trial, and Tyrion demanded a trial by combat. He was allowed a champion, and at the end of the day he proved his innocence.

Robb let Cat get away with no punishment after she freed Jaime.

He sentenced her to house arrest. Was he supposed to cut off his own mother's head? He's not a fucking Baratheon. BTW, I've noticed that imprisoning one Lannister was Cat's terrible crime, and freeing another Lannister was another of Cat's heinous crimes. Isn't the deck stacked against the woman?

Ned beheaded innocent Lady, I mean jfc.

Careful reread of that chapter might reveal to you that Ned was actually defending her and lost; Cersei was the accuser, and Robert was the judge (how on Earth did you manage to skip that and jump directly to the beheading?). A tiny detail, but important.

I see a pattern there.

Me too: weak troll is weak. I can't believe you're having fun with that. Come on, at least put in some effort.

[Naathi Prince]

They can judge him if he is in their lands - he did not go there by his own wish but was forced by Cat.

The Riverlands are a territory in which Catelyn has authority, however. She is Edmure's heir, after all, and those men do owe Catelyn and Hoster their fealty. She doesn't have to be in the North to have authority, and she doesn't have to be in the Vale to have Tyrion judged there. The problem is Lysa being insane, not Catelyn taking Tyrion.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Presumably, anyone who is arrested does not go by their own wish.

Presumable when you're arrested it's because there is proof and the one arresing you has the right to do so. In our world this is a crime, in Westeros as well.

[Naathi Prince]

Presumable when you're arrested it's because there is proof and the one arresing you has the right to do so. In our world this is a crime, in Westeros as well.

in our world, they release you and say oops

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

The Riverlands are a territory in which Catelyn has authority, however. She is Edmure's heir, after all, and those men do owe Catelyn and Hoster their fealty. She doesn't have to be in the North to have authority, and she doesn't have to be in the Vale to have Tyrion judged there. The problem is Lysa being insane, not Catelyn taking Tyrion.

She has no autority in the Riverlands. The only one with such autority is Hoster - he is one who judges, if Edmure, his heir blames someone he will be judged by Hoster since Edmure has no power other than that that is given to him by Hoster - Cat was delegated no power of arrests and giving justice.