The second Dance With Dragons : how it will happen

[Zylathas]

Hello guys,

This is my first post but I have been reading here for a longer time. Everyone knows that in the Winds of Winter the Dance of Dragons is going to happen with the last book ending just before its about to begin. But why will it be a second dance of dragons?

I think we will see 3 major factions vying for power in Twow all of them backed by one Targeryn. So which party will we see?

The "Separist" northern party led by Stannis backed by Jon Targeryn (as the R+L=J theory suggests)

The Essos Party led by Daenarys Targeryn

And the southern party led by Aegon Targeryn.

All may wonder what will happen to the Lannisters in this story. I see Cersei being "removed" from power by the tyrell host quite early. I see them sacking the City removing all Lannister influence and then try to take the power for themselves. The remaning Lannisters under leadership of Jaime Lannister I see joining up with Jon and Stannis after the Brotherhood with Banners to make amends with previous mistakes I see characters like Thoros of Myr coming with him aswell.

Now what will happen to all factions that haven't joined any of these factions yet yet and why would Stannis even let himself be backed by Jon Targeryn? Factions like Arryns, Tullys, Tyrells and Martells will probably go for the faction that goes for them first.

The Arryns will most definatly join Daenarys as that is the place she will land and the remaining tullys might join her aswell if she frees the riverlands. Aegon will get the full support from the Martells and I don't see the Tyrells still having much to do in this story. I see the Tyrells being the first house to be totally annihilated maybe at the hand of one of their own bannermen (Tarly?), maybe by the faith or maybe as a punishment by Aegon to further consolidate his power.

The Greyjoys are still their independent faction but I don't see that for long. I see them breaking into two parts. The Aeron group and the Victarion group. I see Aeron killing Euron after he has destroyed Oldtown and then naming Asha Iron King who will decide to stop the war and instead join up with the Northern army as that would benefit the Greyjoys more.

Now back to the North you would still have Stannis who will fight for Winterfell at the beginning of the book. I see it happening that before events are to begin Roose Bolton might want to parley with Stannis and save his hide which Stannis just might "agree" to. Once he has entered the castle he will execute Roose instantly and find out Ramsay has left with his whole army and decided to attack Castle Black instead. This might explain why he sent Jon the letter about Stannis his death to get him off guard so he could destroy the night watch. Right before the siege Jon returns as Azor Ahai (as I believe he is him) but a big sacrifice has to be made and the wall falls down. The whole night's watch and Wildings would then convert to the red god and join up with Jon to defeat Ramsay which they will do without too many losses. The army would then first go to the Dreadfort and break it down before coming to Winterfell.

Once in Winterfell a strange meeting would occur. Stannis would see Melisandre was wrong after all and that his whole army will back Jon and I see Jon making a deal with Stannis to keep him happy, but from the Throne aswell. If Jon gets to claim the Iron Throne with Stannis his support. Stannis will be named Lord Protector of the North & beyond. Which I see Stannis agreeing to. He will have to give Winterfell to Rickon though but instead he gets the Nightfort once they have won the war against the others.

Further down the pipeline in the book the Northern army would go further south where they will encounter Daenarys in the riverlands and strike a deal. I see Daenarys and Jon marrying (Victarion will never marry Daenarys, I do not believe that) and deciding to take their armies together and break the two kingdoms naming Stannis King of the North & Beyond (which he definatly deserves). Stannis would then ride against the others with his force he might be granted a dragon aswell by Dany. Jon and Daenarys would ride against Aegon to take the throne in book 7.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

The only sure thing I know about the 2nd DWD is there will be a bloodbath. Who are going to side to who? Depends on:

-who's the strongest/lawful/rightful claimant

-who's gonna give clemency

-who's gonna win :P

-Houses that are still standing

-Houses that are loyal to this House or that

-Kingdoms that want to belong to the 7 Kingdoms or fight for their independence

...and possibly more that I forgot to mentioned.

Welcome to the forum! :cheers:

[The Bastard of Walton]

If Jon is alive, & by the Old Gods & the New he best be, I see his story being a lone hunt for Ramsey. If R+L=J is true, I dont see the reveal coming in WOW. I see the Dance being Daenerys vs The Pretender Aegon. If Daenerys finaly arrives in Westeros, I like the idea of her landing in the Vale & Sansa allying with her, but she still hates the Starks & Baratheons. I think she will need help from both in the end to deal with Aegon, the Lannisters, the Tyrells, the Greyjoys & the others. I can see Stannis bending the Knee to Daenerys, if he survives Ramsey.

[Lord Bronn of Sunspear]

Assuming Barristan is still with her, i cant see Dany hating any particular house for the rebellion. Robert is dead, Ned is dead, but still praised by her Hand. If she can find peace with any house, under Selmy's advice, she'll take it.

Also if she takes Tyrion as a friend, she'll know who the real threats are.

As far as the next "DwD", I would say it still centers around the bay. The dragons will end the slave war, allowing her to install a government, and taking her dragons to Westeros.

[tbc]

I'm still not convinced that Dany and Aegon will automatically fight each other. Aegon, even with Dornish support, has a bitch of a job to conquer Westeros. If he can consolidate the Storm Lands and Dorne (and possibly parts of the Reach that defect), he'll have a reasonable bedrock of Westerosi political and military support, but insufficient to win outright. Dany can provide the knockout military power with dragons, but lacks the Westerosi links, and the credible army.

They are, in the short-term at least, natural allies. They share broadly the same goal, have the same natural supporters, and both have significant weaknesses.

[The Real Summer Islander]

i certainly think the others will throw their stick into the spokes of that plan.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think the reason WHY Aegon and dany clash can be summed up by three persons: jon snow , jaime and sansa

[MikeDC]

I'm still not convinced that Dany and Aegon will automatically fight each other. Aegon, even with Dornish support, has a bitch of a job to conquer Westeros. If he can consolidate the Storm Lands and Dorne (and possibly parts of the Reach that defect), he'll have a reasonable bedrock of Westerosi political and military support, but insufficient to win outright. Dany can provide the knockout military power with dragons, but lacks the Westerosi links, and the credible army.

They are, in the short-term at least, natural allies. They share broadly the same goal, have the same natural supporters, and both have significant weaknesses.

I agree with this, and to add to it, there's a lot of plot elements that push them together:

* Aegon's original plan was to go win Dany's hand in the first place. So he's obviously not predisposed to hate her. And likewise, she wishes for family and kinship.

* There's a variety of prophecies that suggest the Targs will ally themselves (PtWP, Dragon has three heads, etc).

* There's plenty of strength in Westeros to oppose the Targs is they do manage to ally/stay allied together.

I think a lot of times people think GRRM is ALWAYS going to do something wildly unexpected. But there's not much evidence for that. Sometimes there are surprises, but lots of things have unfolded pretty much like they're foreshadowed...

[Other May I?]

It's interesting discussing the "Dance with Dragons" which is to occur in "The Winds of Winter." There was certainly lots of wintry weather in ADwD. I wonder if GRRM considered switching the titles? (Probably not, just idle daydreaming speculation :) )

[gougef]

What if the second Dance of Dragons happens in Esso? Dany/Drogon against whoever controls the others with The Horn? Just some crackpot there ;)

[Zylathas]

What if the second Dance of Dragons happens in Esso? Dany/Drogon against whoever controls the others with The Horn? Just some crackpot there ;)

I doubt it. The first Dance With Dragons was a succesion crisis about who was going to get the Iron Throne after the previous king died. If this war would get the name "The Second dance of Dragons" I would assume the same would happen as in the first, or it would have gotten a different name. Besides that, all parties that will fight for the throne will not litterarly use a dragon but use the dragon as their house banner.

OR that's what I think about the war atleast.

[MikeDC]

It's interesting discussing the "Dance with Dragons" which is to occur in "The Winds of Winter." There was certainly lots of wintry weather in ADwD. I wonder if GRRM considered switching the titles? (Probably not, just idle daydreaming speculation :) )

This is probably the best argument against it happening at all. I mean, if there was going to be another "Dance with Dragons", it would have either happened in the last book, or the last book would have been called something else :)

[LRvHD]

Hello guys,

This is my first post but I have been reading here for a longer time. Everyone knows that in the Winds of Winter the Dance of Dragons is going to happen with the last book ending just before its about to begin. But why will it be a second dance of dragons?

I think we will see 3 major factions vying for power in Twow all of them backed by one Targeryn. So which party will we see?

The "Separist" northern party led by Stannis backed by Jon Targeryn (as the R+L=J theory suggests)

The Essos Party led by Daenarys Targeryn

And the southern party led by Aegon Targeryn.

All may wonder what will happen to the Lannisters in this story. I see Cersei being "removed" from power by the tyrell host quite early. I see them sacking the City removing all Lannister influence and then try to take the power for themselves. The remaning Lannisters under leadership of Jaime Lannister I see joining up with Jon and Stannis after the Brotherhood with Banners to make amends with previous mistakes I see characters like Thoros of Myr coming with him aswell.

Now what will happen to all factions that haven't joined any of these factions yet yet and why would Stannis even let himself be backed by Jon Targeryn? Factions like Arryns, Tullys, Tyrells and Martells will probably go for the faction that goes for them first.

The Arryns will most definatly join Daenarys as that is the place she will land and the remaining tullys might join her aswell if she frees the riverlands. Aegon will get the full support from the Martells and I don't see the Tyrells still having much to do in this story. I see the Tyrells being the first house to be totally annihilated maybe at the hand of one of their own bannermen (Tarly?), maybe by the faith or maybe as a punishment by Aegon to further consolidate his power.

The Greyjoys are still their independent faction but I don't see that for long. I see them breaking into two parts. The Aeron group and the Victarion group. I see Aeron killing Euron after he has destroyed Oldtown and then naming Asha Iron King who will decide to stop the war and instead join up with the Northern army as that would benefit the Greyjoys more.

Now back to the North you would still have Stannis who will fight for Winterfell at the beginning of the book. I see it happening that before events are to begin Roose Bolton might want to parley with Stannis and save his hide which Stannis just might "agree" to. Once he has entered the castle he will execute Roose instantly and find out Ramsay has left with his whole army and decided to attack Castle Black instead. This might explain why he sent Jon the letter about Stannis his death to get him off guard so he could destroy the night watch. Right before the siege Jon returns as Azor Ahai (as I believe he is him) but a big sacrifice has to be made and the wall falls down. The whole night's watch and Wildings would then convert to the red god and join up with Jon to defeat Ramsay which they will do without too many losses. The army would then first go to the Dreadfort and break it down before coming to Winterfell.

Once in Winterfell a strange meeting would occur. Stannis would see Melisandre was wrong after all and that his whole army will back Jon and I see Jon making a deal with Stannis to keep him happy, but from the Throne aswell. If Jon gets to claim the Iron Throne with Stannis his support. Stannis will be named Lord Protector of the North & beyond. Which I see Stannis agreeing to. He will have to give Winterfell to Rickon though but instead he gets the Nightfort once they have won the war against the others.

Further down the pipeline in the book the Northern army would go further south where they will encounter Daenarys in the riverlands and strike a deal. I see Daenarys and Jon marrying (Victarion will never marry Daenarys, I do not believe that) and deciding to take their armies together and break the two kingdoms naming Stannis King of the North & Beyond (which he definatly deserves). Stannis would then ride against the others with his force he might be granted a dragon aswell by Dany. Jon and Daenarys would ride against Aegon to take the throne in book 7.

The two bolded ones - no way.

First one - Not after RW, is there any chance of any Lannister host joining forces with either BWB or the Northerners.

The second one - yeah, that'd be very Stannis, it's not like he's like iron, doesn't bend, or compromise.

[houseHB]

I think it will be between Aegon and Jon because Dany has given no indication that she will be headed to Westeros any time soon.

[juanml82]

There is no way that Stannis will lead a separatist movement. With him, it's all or nothing. And I don't think the Northerners will follow him south of the Twins. Since at this point most of 'his' forces are Northerners, Stannis is in for a nasty surprise.

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

None of your Stannis claims sound at all like Stannis. The guy is the most stubborn character we know in this series. My theory has been that Jon will kill him before tWoW ends.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

None of your Stannis claims sound at all like Stannis. The guy is the most stubborn character we know in this series. My theory has been that Jon will kill him before tWoW ends.

I frigging hope so. That or he gets roasted by Drogon after he becomes the new Night's King.

[Zylathas]

None of your Stannis claims sound at all like Stannis. The guy is the most stubborn character we know in this series. My theory has been that Jon will kill him before tWoW ends.

I do not (and do not want to) believe that. I think its a character progression we will be seeing from Stannis like we have seen from most other characters, to overcome something in their lives and I also think he will step down for a reason.

He already heeds council of others at his "court" and is willing to change his plans according to what they have to say. I think that Stannis will be adviced to instead support Jon as that would be more beneficial for him overall and besides, Stannis is the heroe-ish person that will save the world in need, like he did at the wall. So I don't think it is not that strange for Stannis to at one point give up his conquest and gets a big but slightly smaller prize in return.

I don't think we have seen all of Stannis in terms of Character progression.

[Zirnitra]

While I believe in R+L=J, that doesn't mean Jon is Targaryen. Rhaegar was already married to Elia, so Jon is definitely a bastard.

Similiar case as with Daemon Blackfyre whose BOTH parents were Targaryen, but that still didn't made him Targ, so he was with no right to Iron Throne whatsoever.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

I see the Dance being Daenerys vs The Pretender Aegon.

I agree. The "Slayer of Lies" will slay the lies that surrounds the Mummer's dragon.

If Daenerys finaly arrives in Westeros, I like the idea of her landing in the Vale & Sansa allying with her, but she still hates the Starks & Baratheons.

I believe her hate won't last forever. Viserys planted that hate inside her head, but he's dead. She mainly mentioned "The Usurper" (instead of calling him King Robert) in COK several times when she was still the beggar queen, but in SOS, she only mentioned him five times. She hated him more, maybe, but in DwD she felt "almost sorry" for what happened to him when she saw how the boar was killing Barsena. The "Usurper dogs," she only mentioned twice in each book (yeah, I counted it during my re-read :D). In DWD, she surely displayed her ill-feelings towards them. "If a child is set upon by pack of hounds, does it matter which one tears out his throat? "All the dogs are just as guilty." She said that in reference to the Starks/Lannisters, but then she remembered what Drogon did to Hazzea - her own words "caught in her throat." I think she thinks that she is as guilty, too (coz she's the momma of her monstrous "children"). With that in her mind, I believe she will let go of that hate, 'coz if not, she's the greatest hypocrite of all.

I can see Stannis bending the Knee to Daenerys, if he survives Ramsey.

If he bends his knees, or runs again like what happened in the BBW, that means he's weak, and he will carry that shame for the rest of his life. So, Stannis will probably fight this time until the bitter end; but like you said, he must survive Ramsay first.