Was Aerys trying to reunite his house to the Blackfyres?

[caravaggio]

Mostly speculation, but...

Aerys knows that someone from his line is supposed to be TPTWP. At the time he only has one heir, Rhaegar. He sends Steffon Baratheon to the Free Cities to find a wife for Rhaegar.

Who is Steffon looking for? Some random minx of Valyrian descent? That doesn't make much sense when there are better alternatives for your only child and heir to the throne.

The only conclusion that I can draw is he is looking for a woman from the Blackfyre line and that Aerys is trying to reunite the bloodlines.

Of course, all of this falls through. Steffon only finds Patchface and dies trying to return home.

So, was Aerys intention to find a Blackfyre wife for Rhaegar?

If so, why didn't the Blackfyre's and their supporters meet with Steffon and agree to the deal?

Some have speculated that Varys is a Blackfyre supporter (or even a Blackfyre himself) and that his intention is to unite Aegon (A Blackfyre) to Daenerys, but if so why not just unite the bloodlines when they had the opportunity with Aerys looking for a wife for Rhaegar? Do the Blackfyres and supporters simply want the "Targaryens" wiped out?

(I say "Targaryens" because from a Blackfyre perspective they could still consider themselves the true Targaryens.)

[Malgarroth]

God, I'd love it if Patchface turned out to be a Blackfyre :P

[King of Winters]

It's a nice little theory, how Aerys wanted to unite two families who have hated each other for centuries, and bond them to the throne with Rhaegar. If we had enough evidence this could have happened.

[caravaggio]

I suppose he could have been searching for a descendent of Aerion, but that seems unlikely to me... unless Aerion had a child with a Blackfyre.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Nice thought, but I think he was really just looking for valyrian descent. He didn't give a damn about other houses, apparently.

[caravaggio]

Nice thought, but I think he was really just looking for valyrian descent. He didn't give a damn about other houses, apparently.

I could buy that, but why then send Steffon (an important person in his own right) out searching? Just send out word to the Free Cities that you are looking for a wife of Valyrian descent for Rhaegar. Sit back and watch the prospects and gifts pile up. Even if you do send Steffon for whatever reason, why would he have any trouble finding some pretty girl of Valryian descent? They are all over the place.

Unless he is looking for specific people, a Blackfyre, what would be the need for a search at all and how the heck could Steffon have come up empty handed?

[caravaggio]

God, I'd love it if Patchface turned out to be a Blackfyre :P

Crackpot: His mission is to ensure the elimination of the Targaryen line of Baratheon. Once the Baratheons, and Dany are gone the Blackfyres will think they alone carry the Targaryen bloodline... but wait! Ned Stark was hiding one!

[Dagon Greyjoy]

If he was merely looking for a highborn female of Valyrian descent, why not just send word to the noble Houses of Volantis? They're all of the blood of Old Valyria.

[BeWareOfMyHouse]

I'm a firm believer that Aegon is a Blackfyre, and that Varys is a Blackfyre supporter who was living in Braavos.

That being said, I just think there are some things that aren't worth looking into. Aerys was likely looking for someone of Valyrian descent. The last Blackfyre pretender, Maelys, was slain when he tried to invade during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. The Blackfyre threat was essentially over, as far as anyone in Westeros knew. I doubt Aerys would've wanted to bring a Blackfyre princess into the fold with them already almost extinct.

Aerys was Mad, but more in a paranoid way. He wasn't stupid.

[caravaggio]

If he was merely looking for a highborn female of Valyrian descent, why not just send word to the noble Houses of Volantis? They're all of the blood of Old Valyria.

Exactly! (Yay! Someone gets it!)

Steffon certainly wouldn't have come up empty handed and failed his King.

We must assume then that Steffon is under orders to find a specific person for him in the area of the Free Cities.

My speculation is that person was a female of the Blackfyre line.

[BeWareOfMyHouse]

Exactly! (Yay! Someone gets it!)

Steffon certainly wouldn't have come up empty handed and failed his King.

We must assume then that Steffon is under orders to find a specific person for him in the area of the Free Cities.

My speculation is that person was a female of the Blackfyre line.

I'll ask again. Why?

The War of the Ninepenny Kings was over. Maelys the Monstrous was dead. The Blackfyre threat was essentially over. Why bring the Blackfyres to Westeros via a marriage with a princess from an exiled family with zero power, zero prestige, and zero political friends at that point?

[caravaggio]

I'll ask again. Why?

The War of the Ninepenny Kings was over. Maelys the Monstrous was dead. The Blackfyre threat was essentially over. Why bring the Blackfyres to Westeros via a marriage with a princess from an exiled family with zero power, zero prestige, and zero political friends at that point?

We can only speculate as to the why. Perhaps Aerys mistakenly believes this is the route to cultivating TPTWP prophecy. Perhaps he has other reasons. Perhaps Aerys only wants to mate his son with someone else with Targaryen blood... There are no female Baratheons and Aerys has no other children at that point. Maybe he felt a Blackfyre would be a better choice then a Martell.

But to counter your question/argument...

Why would Aerys want to tie his only heir to a random Valryian?

Why send one of the most powerful Lords of Westeros (And a blood relative) to find just anyone?

How could Steffon have possibly failed? There are people of Valryian descent everywhere. Surely he could have brought back someone!

If it isn't a Blackfyre then who?

[joluoto]

The only reason Aerys would have to find a Blackfyre girl would be if he wanted to find someone with the blood of the dragon. Perhaps he heard rumors of the existence of a daughter/sister/niece of Maelys the Monstrous. With Steffon's mission failing, he instead looked towards Dorne. The Martells also carries the blood of the dragon, and unlike his other vassals they're not just lowly servants, but Princes and Princesses.

[caravaggio]

The only reason Aerys would have to find a Blackfyre girl would be if he wanted to find someone with the blood of the dragon. Perhaps he heard rumors of the existence of a daughter/sister/niece of Maelys the Monstrous. With Steffon's mission failing, he instead looked towards Dorne. The Martells also carries the blood of the dragon, and unlike his other vassals they're not just lowly servants, but Princes and Princesses.

Exactly. So, Aerys tries to reunite the Blackfyre and Targaryen bloodines at least for the sake of finding his heir a wife with Targaryen blood. Steffon's mission fails and Aerys ultimately goes with Elia Martell.

But why then don't the Blackfyres do it? Why do they stay in hiding? If Steffon bothered to go at all, with his wife no less, on the orders of his King to find them then I think he would have found them unless they didn't want to be found.

Aerys denies Tywin a marriage between Cersei and Rhaegar 276AL

Aerys starts getting very paranoid after the Defiance at Duskendale sometime around mid 277AL.

Varys comes to the Red Keep sometime soon after. (Before or after Aerys decides to send Steffon?)

Steffon dies returning from his failed mission in 278AL (Did Varys plan the idea to make the match? Why?)

If Varys sympathizes with (or is a) Blackfyre why wouldn't he want to join the houses?Why would Steffon fail? Even if you take Varys out of the equation that is a pretty good deal for the Blackfyres... why not take the deal?

If Aerys is just looking for any worthy girl of Valyrian descent why send Steffon (who has Targaryen blood himself) and his wife to search .

He must be looking for a particular wife otherwise he could just take offers or Steffon would have selected the best, most worthy girl amongst a sea of girls of Valyrian descent in the Free Cities. He doesn't even bring back a girl for his King to see though, only Patchface. Steffon fails. Steffon dies. So it must mean he couldn't find the particular girl of Valyrian descent Aerys was looking for.

The only other woman Aerys suggests Rhaegar marry is Elia, a woman who has some Targaryen blood, but I think that she was his second choice after a woman of the Blackfyre line. They don't agree to it or possibly even meet with Steffon and Aerys marries Rhaegar to Elia.

Wouldn't this mean that Blackfyres wouldn't want a rejoining of the house? Heck, even if Aerys wasn't looking for a Blackfyre, you'd think a Blackfyre female would have stepped forward to offer herself as a woman of Valyrian descent to be joined with Rhaegar. Why would you pass that up unless you don't want to rejoin the house?

[joluoto]

Let's say it's true (which I don't find likely)

then:

a) the rumor is false, there's no Blackfyre girl

b. She's already married

c) She refuses the Targaryens for some reason

[caravaggio]

Let's say it's true (which I don't find likely)

then:

a) the rumor is false, there's no Blackfyre girl

b. She's already married

c) She refuses the Targaryens for some reason

a. Characters in world believe the female Blackfyre line is still around, and there is enough there for me to think that is probably true.

b. Maybe

c.My question exactly... why refuse? Maybe they already had some plan in the works to wipe out the Targaryens and reclaim their place. Varys and Illyrio already know each other at this point and Illyrio may already be married to Serra.

As to it being unlikely Steffon was sent to find a Blackfyre...

a. Can you point to anyone else who would be of Valyrian descent, living in the Free Cities that would have been a candidate? (I said one possibility would be a descendent of Aerion)

b. If it is just any Valyrian Steffon would have found one.

c. A Blackfyre would have met Aerys criteria for a wife for Rhaegar with Targaryen blood. He passes up Cersei who doesn't have any, sends Steffon out who fails, and settles on Elia who also has some Targaryen blood.

[joluoto]

a. Characters in world believe the female Blackfyre line is still around, and there is enough there for me to think that is probably true.

b. Maybe

c.My question exactly... why refuse? Maybe they already had some plan in the works to wipe out the Targaryens and reclaim their place. Varys and Illyrio already know each other at this point and Illyrio may already be married to Serra.

As to it being unlikely Steffon was sent to find a Blackfyre...

a. Can you point to anyone else who would be of Valyrian descent, living in the Free Cities that would have been a candidate? (I said one possibility would be a descendent of Aerion)

b. If it is just any Valyrian Steffon would have found one.

c. A Blackfyre would have met Aerys criteria for a wife for Rhaegar with Targaryen blood. He passes up Cersei who doesn't have any, sends Steffon out who fails, and settles on Elia who also has some Targaryen blood.

The Volantese nobility of the tiger variety is probably descendants of Valyrian petty nobility. The Valyrian look exist in Essos, so some of the noble houses are probably of Valyrian descent. However most Essosi noble houses are Merchant nobility, and if they have Valyrian blood it's probably not that pure (and might not be from Valyrian nobility). So if Steffon was to find descendants of Valyrian nobles, Volantis would have been the place to go.

[caravaggio]

The Volantese nobility of the tiger variety is probably descendants of Valyrian petty nobility. The Valyrian look exist in Essos, so some of the noble houses are probably of Valyrian descent. However most Essosi noble houses are Merchant nobility, and if they have Valyrian blood it's probably not that pure (and might not be from Valyrian nobility). So if Steffon was to find descendants of Valyrian nobles, Volantis would have been the place to go.

Yes, any of those would have been good choices if it was any Valyrian. Arranging such a match would have been easy. But we know Steffon fails, he doesn't even bring back a few for Aerys to consider. he doesn't find a person that matches what Aerys is looking for. He wouldn't have failed if he could have chosen any of the above as you describe.

[joluoto]

Yes, any of those would have been good choices if it was any Valyrian. Arranging such a match would have been easy. But we know Steffon fails, he doesn't even bring back a few for Aerys to consider. he doesn't find a person that matches what Aerys is looking for. He wouldn't have failed if he could have chosen any of the above as you describe.

Of course there is a theory that Aerion Brightflame sired some bastards while he was in Lys, and that Steffon was looking for his descendants.

[caravaggio]

Of course there is a theory that Aerion Brightflame sired some bastards while he was in Lys, and that Steffon was looking for his descendants.

(which I did mention above)

I think you can conclude it was either a Blackfyre or a descendent of Aerion.

I think it is less likely to be Aerion's descendent because...

1. It is just an old rumor that Aerion may have had a child with someone from Lys (Where as it is believed at least some Blackfyres still exist in the Free Cities).

2. Aerys would probably think the Blackfyres would be interested in keeping their bloodline as pure as possible (He wanted as pure Targaryen blood as possible for his son).

3. He already knows a true son of Aerion was passed over for succession.