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Aarnikotka

[BOOK SPOILERS] Lady Talysa

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Do you guys think they'll have the scene where Robb tells Cat he's naming Jon his heir in his will? IMO if they don't show that scene it would be total bullshit, as not only is it a pretty big scene in the book in terms of the possibility of Jon's future, but it also shows a very realistic and reasonable explanation for why Cat had a problem with Jon being at Winterfell, which was that she feared he threatened her children's inheritance which she backs up in that scene with historical precedence and facts from the Blackfyre rebellion. So If they don't have that scene that would by far be the biggest disappointment of the season for me.....

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Do you guys think they'll have the scene where Robb tells Cat he's naming Jon his heir in his will? IMO if they don't show that scene it would be total bullshit, as not only is it a pretty big scene in the book in terms of the possibility of Jon's future, but it also shows a very realistic and reasonable reason why Cat had a problem with Jon being at Winterfell, which was that she feared he threatened her children's inheritance which she backs up in that scene with historical precedence and facts from the Blackfyre rebellion. So If they don't have that scene that would by far be the biggest disappointment of the season for me.....

I'm thinking that Cat's scene in Ep2 foreshadows that. It would be a shame if they didn't have it.

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Do you guys think they'll have the scene where Robb tells Cat he's naming Jon his heir in his will? IMO if they don't show that scene it would be total bullshit, as not only is it a pretty big scene in the book in terms of the possibility of Jon's future, but it also shows a very realistic and reasonable explanation for why Cat had a problem with Jon being at Winterfell, which was that she feared he threatened her children's inheritance which she backs up in that scene with historical precedence and facts from the Blackfyre rebellion. So If they don't have that scene that would by far be the biggest disappointment of the season for me.....

Be prepared to be disappointed I'm guessing then.

It's my opinion that some people put way too much emphasis on this plot point. All the crap that happens to Jon in ADwD (with him getting stabbed to death and possibly warging into Ghost) suggests to me that Jon's path is probably not setting him up as Lord of Winterfell. I tend to think the "Will" moment wasn't nearly as important as it seemed at the time and was either a red herring by Martin or something he changed his mind on after a decade or so (like how he lost interest in the "who sent the assassin to kill Bran" mystery). Even if Jon being legitimized is a plot point later, that's something that can easily be written around. Hell, even in the books you have Stannis having the authority to offer up the Lord of Winterfell to Jon so clearly a decree by Robb is in no way essential to this taking place.

To address the other point, I think we've established well enough why Cat wouldn't want Jon at Winterfell, you don't need much of that other background which is fairly superfluous and unnecessary info.

Fans get upset over the weirdest things with this series. To me, all a scene with Robb changing his will to include Jon would accomplish is put a massive neon flashing sign above his head saying "About to die very soon".

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Also in the series Talisa's last name Maegyr is the same as one of the rulers of Volantis. Could this just a coincidence.

I looked up the triarchy of Volantis and yes she does share the same name with Malaquo the Tiger. If she is indeed a daughter of one of the rulers of Volantis, is it going to affect the plot? Volantis has economic ties with Westeros, I would assume, and Tywin Lannister has always been pretty fond of writing and sending letters to win wars. He could well be in touch with Malaquo Maegyr (wow the more I write this the more it sounds so far-fetched, I think I'll stop here).

Honestly I don't want more changes to her storyline. If she's going to survive, then alright, but at least I hope they bring back the original Jeyne storyline back in the fold. The series is really so confusing right now to the point that even if I've read books 1-5, I feel so lost.

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Be prepared to be disappointed I'm guessing then.

It's my opinion that some people put way too much emphasis on this plot point. All the crap that happens to Jon in ADwD (with him getting stabbed to death and possibly warging into Ghost) suggests to me that Jon's path is probably not setting him up as Lord of Winterfell. I tend to think the "Will" moment wasn't nearly as important as it seemed at the time and was either a red herring by Martin or something he changed his mind on after a decade or so (like how he lost interest in the "who sent the assassin to kill Bran" mystery). Even if Jon being legitimized is a plot point later, that's something that can easily be written around. Hell, even in the books you have Stannis having the authority to offer up the Lord of Winterfell to Jon so clearly a decree by Robb is in no way essential to this taking place.

To address the other point, I think we've established well enough why Cat wouldn't want Jon at Winterfell, you don't need much of that other background which is fairly superfluous and unnecessary info.

Fans get upset over the weirdest things with this series. To me, all a scene with Robb changing his will to include Jon would accomplish is put a massive neon flashing sign above his head saying "About to die very soon".

First of all the will wouldn't make him "Lord of Winterfell" it would make him King of the North, ya I'd say there's a big difference there. Second of all again there's a huge difference between Stannis and Robb, when Stannis offered to legitimize Jon it was to simply be Lord of Winterfell, which Jon rejected because among many other reasons Stannis was not a Stark so Jon didn't feel worthy of the offer and Stannis wanted Jon to forsake his northern gods. Robb's situation would be entirely different do to the fact that Robb is his own flesh and blood and would be naming him King not lord...If you honestly think that Robb's will won't come into play at all in the books then maybe you should do some re reads. Also I caution you think long and hard before you label what fans get upset over as 'weird' as they're are numerous threads on this forum about the subject of Robb's will and it's future relating to Jon that have numerous members that have been on here a lot longer than you or I that would love to tell you otherwise.....

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First of all the will wouldn't make him "Lord of Winterfell" it would make him King of the North, ya I'd say there's a big difference there. Second of all again there's a huge difference between Stannis and Robb, when Stannis offered to legitimize Jon it was to simply be Lord of Winterfell, which Jon rejected because among many other reasons Stannis was not a Stark so Jon didn't feel worthy of the offer and Stannis wanted Jon to forsake his northern gods. Robb's situation would be entirely different do to the fact that Robb is his own flesh and blood and would be naming him King not lord...If you honestly think that Robb's will won't come into play at all in the books then maybe you should do some re reads. Also I caution you think long and hard before you label what fans get upset over as 'weird' as they're are numerous threads on this forum about the subject of Robb's will and it's future relating to Jon that have numerous members that have been on here a lot longer than you or I that would love to tell you otherwise.....

You're talking about a fan theory that has no evidence of coming to fruition through the last 2 books and you've also got the guy dead and warging into a direwolf so there's a decent chance that the ship has sailed on this.

And if it ends up being a major plot point that has consequences on the endgame of the entire saga, then the producers would be well aware of this. So there would be a plan in place to either do it by this way or as I mentioned, it can be written around.

The fan theory of stuff that may not even happen is the absolute worst part of following the television series. Every omission or change on the show is somehow some personal affront to a long held religious belief that a handful of fans have. It's ridiculous. If it's important, it will be shown. If it's not, then you've probably got an answer that you maybe didn't want to hear but you can take that up with GRRM if it gets you that upset.

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You're talking about a fan theory that has no evidence of coming to fruition through the last 2 books and you've also got the guy dead and warging into a direwolf so there's a decent chance that the ship has sailed on this.

And if it ends up being a major plot point that has consequences on the endgame of the entire saga, then the producers would be well aware of this. So there would be a plan in place to either do it by this way or as I mentioned, it can be written around.

The fan theory of stuff that may not even happen is the absolute worst part of following the television series. Every omission or change on the show is somehow some personal affront to a long held religious belief that a handful of fans have. It's ridiculous. If it's important, it will be shown. If it's not, then you've probably got an answer that you maybe didn't want to hear but you can take that up with GRRM if it gets you that upset.

Fans are entitled to be upset with whatever they damn well please did I say I was gonna boycott the show if they didn't include that scene? No so please spare me the I'm overreacting bullshit, there have been numerous important scenes from the books that they have not included in the tv series and yet the show is still awesome that's not what I'm arguing against. All I was doing is expressing that I would be disappointed if they did not include that scene as other ppl including GRRM himself have have also been disappointed that certain past scenes from the books were not included into the series. I never said the show would suffer or somehow be worst for it, I'll watch and love the show regardless. All I said is that I'd be disappointed if they did not include that scene. If you don't like fans getting upset over certain scenes from the books not being on the show then don't respond to my fuckin posts!

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So If they don't have that scene that would by far be the biggest disappointment of the season for me.....

If they don't have a scene where Rob makes a will, then it will be the absolute biggest disappointment of the entire season for you. I don't know how I thought you were overreacting. This seems like a perfectly rational statement which encompasses plenty of perspective, my bad.

I'm fine with people saying they'd like to see certain events take place from the book on the show. It gets absolutely silly and worthy of derision when somebody bases their entire enjoyment of an episode, season or even show on whether you see this one thing or not.

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If they don't have a scene where Rob makes a will, then it will be the absolute biggest disappointment of the entire season for you. I don't know how I thought you were overreacting. This seems like a perfectly rational statement which encompasses plenty of perspective, my bad.

I'm fine with people saying they'd like to see certain events take place from the book on the show. It gets absolutely silly and worthy of derision when somebody bases their entire enjoyment of an episode, season or even show on whether you see this one thing or not.

Smh not everyone is going to like every single thing that happens or doesn't happen in a episode. Jesus Christ no matter how popular a TV show is, there's always going to be highs and lows of an episode or season. Go on any website that analyzes a TV show's specific episode or overall season they will always show you what they like the most about it, and what they were disappointed the most about. Again not everything is going to be perfect, I said if they don't have that scene that would be the the biggest disappointment for me of the season, great did I say that that disappointment would take away from what I loved most about the season? No, did I say that the fact that I would be disappointed with not seeing that scene would cause me to hate the show or think this season was a failure in the slightest bit? Hell no, as a die hard fan of the show and the books there are things I absolutely love about each season and there are things that I'm disappointed by, with the things I love vastly outnumbering the things I was disappointed by, and the show not having the will scene would just simply be the thing that I would be most disappointed by this season, regardless of that disappointment I will still immensely enjoy the episode it's the freakin RW!

And I never said I wouldn't enjoy the show, season, or episode because of not showing the will scene get that through your head! Every show will have things you loved, and thing you were disappointed by, but that in no way discourages my overall opinion on how good of a job HBO is doing with the show. Now seriously back the fuck off!

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Wasn't her name changed on GRRM's request because she did not resemble Jeyne at all anymore with how much D&D changed her? This leads me to believe that whatever happens with 'Talysa' is fully on D&D's account and does not necessarily says anything about Jeyne's story.

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Wasn't her name changed on GRRM's request because she did not resemble Jeyne at all anymore with how much D&D changed her? This leads me to believe that whatever happens with 'Talysa' is fully on D&D's account and does not necessarily says anything about Jeyne's story.

No, her name was going to be Jeyne but she was not going to be a Westerling. D&D didn't want to do the Romeo and Juliet, two people fall in love in the middle of a war who are from opposite sides thing. So for a while, she was simply "Jeyne" and they were going to fill her backstory to have her from another family. At some point, they decided that she would be from Volantis because they wanted to incorporate some references from that locale for when they went there later on in the series. When they told George this, he suggested that they'd have to change her name from Jeyne since that wasn't a Volantine name. So then either George or D&D settled on Talisa as an appropriate name.

And just because she's not Jeyne Westerling, it doesn't mean that she's clearly not filling the "Jeyne Westerling" role in the story. Kind of like how "Locke" is not Vargo Hoat and has a different background but he's going to serve the exact same purpose as Hoat did in the books.

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No a last will talk please. As someone above said that´s like putting a big arrow above Robb´s head saying "about to die". The show did a good job distracting the viewers enough to believe he may actually have a future now and it seems they will play the pre-wedding scenes as much smart. Nothing could it derailed more than Robb suddenly starting to doubt his future. Why? Talisa just told him she is pregnant so there will be a heir soon. And it seems this new plan of taking Casterly Rock put some morale back into his lines, even Cat looks supportive. The wedding is supposed to be a new beginning of his campaign, so why to think about the worst?

If the will is important it can be present later. Heck, Robb could easily done the necessaraly preparation offscreen while at Riverrun and we only discover it later, let´s say when Jamie arrives there eventually to deal with Starfish. There is really zero reason to put it in there now and I think D&D knew very well why they cut it out. It´s just too forshadowing, even in the book.

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No a last will talk please. As someone above said that´s like putting a big arrow above Robb´s head saying "about to die". The show did a good job distracting the viewers enough to believe he may actually have a future now and it seems they will play the pre-wedding scenes as much smart. Nothing could it derailed more than Robb suddenly starting to doubt his future. Why? Talisa just told him she is pregnant so there will be a heir soon. And it seems this new plan of taking Casterly Rock put some morale back into his lines, even Cat looks supportive. The wedding is supposed to be a new beginning of his campaign, so why to think about the worst?

If the will is important it can be present later. Heck, Robb could easily done the necessaraly preparation offscreen while at Riverrun and we only discover it later, let´s say when Jamie arrives there eventually to deal with Starfish. There is really zero reason to put it in there now and I think D&D knew very well why they cut it out. It´s just too forshadowing, even in the book.

What, how would showing the will scene be any more forshadowing than in the books? In the books the RW didn't come as a shock to me at all, I think GRRM made it pretty clear Robb's days were numbered in the books the same way D&D have done on the show. I have several friends who haven't read a single book but watch the show, and they always talk to me about how they think Robb is gonna die this season, so I don't think D&D have distracted nearly as many ppl as you seem to think, most ppl that I know that watch the show but aren't readers already think Robb's going to die regardless of the will scene or not. The will scene isn't so much about Robb, as it is about the viewers seeing a very reasonable and realistic explanation for why Cat had a problem with Jon being raised at Winterfell, and to show Robb and Cat's initial reaction to the news about Sansa's marriage to Tyrion.

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I'm one who also thinks the will doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There are so many plotlines in ASOIAF they will never all be completed before the books are completed, and I'm ok with that.

What I do think it does it it makes Jon's character even more complex. I hope in the books at some point Jon Snow is handed his brothers will and he crumbles it up and moves on.

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I'm one who also thinks the will doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There are so many plotlines in ASOIAF they will never all be completed before the books are completed, and I'm ok with that.

What I do think it does it it makes Jon's character even more complex. I hope in the books at some point Jon Snow is handed his brothers will and he crumbles it up and moves on.

Well I think the will itself is without a doubt going to show up/be revealed at some point in the show D&D have already said in past interviews that they will acknowledge it at some point, but I guess that specific scene with Robb and Cat probably won't. I mean regardless of if the scene appears or not, it's still been a very good storyline so far, I just personally would like to see the scene because it gives us another opportunity to see Cat voice her opinion as she's been far to quite in this specific season.

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Be prepared to be disappointed I'm guessing then.

It's my opinion that some people put way too much emphasis on this plot point. All the crap that happens to Jon in ADwD (with him getting stabbed to death and possibly warging into Ghost) suggests to me that Jon's path is probably not setting him up as Lord of Winterfell. I tend to think the "Will" moment wasn't nearly as important as it seemed at the time and was either a red herring by Martin or something he changed his mind on after a decade or so (like how he lost interest in the "who sent the assassin to kill Bran" mystery). Even if Jon being legitimized is a plot point later, that's something that can easily be written around. Hell, even in the books you have Stannis having the authority to offer up the Lord of Winterfell to Jon so clearly a decree by Robb is in no way essential to this taking place.

To address the other point, I think we've established well enough why Cat wouldn't want Jon at Winterfell, you don't need much of that other background which is fairly superfluous and unnecessary info.

Fans get upset over the weirdest things with this series. To me, all a scene with Robb changing his will to include Jon would accomplish is put a massive neon flashing sign above his head saying "About to die very soon".

Agree. It's not like the Lannisters or Boltons would be at all inclined to give effect to the will of an attainted traitor to the detriment of their respective schemings. A prevailing King Stannis obviously does not believe he needs Robb's permission to seat Jon there. Prevailing Targaryen King/Queen/both would certainly not be bound by it; they view Ned as a traitor anyway and they will install whoever best serves their ability to stablize the realm. It appears to me that the entire effect of the Will is to drive the one conversation in which it occurs, then whatever happened with it, it's moot.

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First of all the will wouldn't make him "Lord of Winterfell" it would make him King of the North, ya I'd say there's a big difference there. Second of all again there's a huge difference between Stannis and Robb, when Stannis offered to legitimize Jon it was to simply be Lord of Winterfell, which Jon rejected because among many other reasons Stannis was not a Stark so Jon didn't feel worthy of the offer and Stannis wanted Jon to forsake his northern gods. Robb's situation would be entirely different do to the fact that Robb is his own flesh and blood and would be naming him King not lord...If you honestly think that Robb's will won't come into play at all in the books then maybe you should do some re reads. Also I caution you think long and hard before you label what fans get upset over as 'weird' as they're are numerous threads on this forum about the subject of Robb's will and it's future relating to Jon that have numerous members that have been on here a lot longer than you or I that would love to tell you otherwise.....

It would make him both. He'd inherit all of Robb's titles, as Robb's heir.

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Agree. It's not like the Lannisters or Boltons would be at all inclined to give effect to the will of an attainted traitor to the detriment of their respective schemings. A prevailing King Stannis obviously does not believe he needs Robb's permission to seat Jon there. Prevailing Targaryen King/Queen/both would certainly not be bound by it; they view Ned as a traitor anyway and they will install whoever best serves their ability to stablize the realm. It appears to me that the entire effect of the Will is to drive the one conversation in which it occurs, then whatever happened with it, it's moot.

No one from the south will be deciding who rules in the North especially now that winter has come. Bolton's days are numbered seeing as though the North is currently planning on betraying him. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last place the will was seen was heading towards Greywater watch the home of Howland Reed who also happens to be the only confirmed man alive who knows the truth about what really happened at the TOJ, sooner or later the will is going to reach Jon Snow, his decision will be does he follow the will or does he follow R+L=J or somehow both?

With the war with the Others coming and the Others will without a doubt hit the North the hardest out of any kingdom in Westeros, the North will want a Stark leading them and the fact of the matter is Jon is the best man for the job, which is why the North will use Robb's will as an iron clad justification for naming Jon their leader. I could go into much greater detail about this, but I don't believe this is the thread for that discussion there are numerous threads on here that would explain in fuller detail why there's no way in hell the will is just going to simply be forgotten as if it was just some shallow minor plot device to be used for a single chapter. :rolleyes:

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One idea how to wrap her neatly up and keep the mystery...

Have her do the Westerling stunt, release Grey Wind, be shot into shoulder, vanish in the river...

(unless that's what the black fish is gonna do)

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I've read some of the posts on this thread and my honest opinion is that I don't think Talysa will die at the RW. They made it clear she is pregnant and I'm almost positive they won't kill someone pregnant on TV. That is one of the most sensitive and most disgusting things for tv or film.

Also, I think the theory that some have that she will replace Jeyne Poole is ludicrous... First of all, why would Roose/Ramsay want to keep her? For Robb Starks heir? If she's pregnant they would want to kill her and the baby. She wouldn't be an advantage for them b/c she's carrying Robb's baby not Ramsay's... it would still be a Stark.. And also if they keep her, Jon would not ever send anyone after Robb's wife to rescue her from Winterfell lol. The reason he's so determined to do what he does is b/c he knows its his sister in danger not some random woman he's never met, EVEN if she's Robb's widow.

I hope Talysa and Blackfish leave before the massacre they have no place at the RW.

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