Jon and Tyrion?

[Eating My Wings]

You're argument is that he did his best to destroy the Starks. Please let me know what that was.

Yes, he didn't shed tears of joy when he learned about the RW. So what? Have that helped the Starks? No. Cat after being resurrected: "Ah, who cares about Arya, Bran, Ned, Rickon, Robb or Sansa; intelligent, brave, gentle, great, humane and magnificent lord Ty felt sorry for us for half a heartbeat and that's all what matters!" That doesn't seem plausible. Ty is a master of doublethink, so his inner monologue rarely corresponds with his vile deeds. He greatly contributed to the downfall of the Starks, way more than Cersei and Joff, ergo he did his best to destroy the Starks.

Just because he doesn't go out of his way to help the Starks out doesn't mean his goal is to destroy them.

So if you were having a walk with your mentally challenged cousin (if you actually had one, I'm terribly sorry) and he suddenly attacked a passerby and started strangling him your reaction would be, "What a pain! If that man makes it out alive there will be a lot of paperwork!" You may tell yourself afterwards, "It wasn't my goal to kill that man!" but that won't make the man any less dead.

[l3ol3o]

Yes I do think they will meet again. I think Tyrion will travel back with Dany and Dany will eventually make her way to the wall with Tyrion.

Also Sansa as hand? Is this a joke? Even if Jon does sit on the throne, by that time Sansa will be what? At most 18? And I know many people expect/want Sansa to become some political mastermind like Littlefinger but she is a LONG way away. The hand needs to be someone who can run the Kingdom. Sansa is not this person. Besides if Jon is King Sansa will be needed in Winterfell to help out Rickon until he is old enough to rule by himself.

Also I doubt Jon would punish Tyrion for marrying his Sister. The marriage wasn't even consummated so it's not offical and Tyrion wasn't cruel to Sansa and protected her from Joff. He hasn't done anything to the Stark family and has "helped" them when he could. He returned Neds bones, built Bran a saddle, and protected Sansa. The reason the Starks hated Tyrion was because they thought he tried to kill Bran.

Tyrion would make a good hand. He has already proven he is good at the job. I don't expect Tyrion to stay in his current DWD state either. Right now he is lost without a purpose. Soon enough he will have a purpose again and will get out of his slump. Same with Jorah (I hope!)

[nirolo]

There is no method or reason to theft other than greed, Tyrion does not love Sansa. And the notion of Tyrion not having a choice is incorrect, he had a choice and he chose albeit with reluctance to participate in the plan to steal lands that by right was not his when he married Sansa. It was an illegal act to force Sansa's hand in marriage and by the laws of gods and man justice must be served. Why would Jon be apprehensive to serve justice?

Because what you have described is not justice.

[Lion of Judah]

Because what you have described is not justice.

Is there any dispute that Tyrion Lannister married Sansa Stark with the hopes of claiming the lands she inherit through marriage? Is there any dispute that Sansa Stark was forced to marry Tyrion Lannister when she was captive against her will in King's Landing? Is there any dispute that the act of forceful marriage is illegal in the seven kingdoms? How is what I'm suggesting anything but justice?

[Eating My Wings]

As a man of reason, Jon is not going to cut off someone's head for simply being "married" to his sister.

And I doubt Jon is going to find Tyrion guilty for an act that Tyrion has no choice in.

Of course he had. A simple "No" to his father would have sufficed. What do you say? That Sansa would have married a Lannister anyway? Well, Jon faced the same dilemma at Queenscrown, but unlike Ty, Jon proved himself a man of honor.

[nirolo]

Is there any dispute that Tyrion Lannister married Sansa Stark with the hopes of claiming the lands she inherit through marriage? Is there any dispute that Sansa Stark was forced to marry Tyrion Lannister when she was captive against her will in King's Landing? Is there any dispute that the act of forceful marriage is illegal in the seven kingdoms? How is what I'm suggesting anything but justice?

Something is amiss in your argument...

Hmm...

What is it, I wonder...

Oh yeah, Tywin.

And you are conveniently ignoring the most important person in this case: Sansa.

Do you think Sansa will want to find Tyrion guilty for not consummating the marriage?

Don't answer that, because I'm not sure if you can speak for her.

[Eating My Wings]

Tyrion would make a good hand. He has already proven he is good at the job.

No, he hasn't. He is a devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning, spreading death and destruction wherever he steps.

[Light a wight tonight]

Yes, he didn't shed tears of joy when he learned about the RW. So what? Have that helped the Starks? No. Cat after being resurrected: "Ah, who cares about Arya, Bran, Ned, Rickon, Robb or Sansa; intelligent, brave, gentle, great, humane and magnificent lord Ty felt sorry for us for half a heartbeat and that's all what matters!" That doesn't seem plausible. Ty is a master of doublethink, so his inner monologue rarely corresponds with his vile deeds. He greatly contributed to the downfall of the Starks, way more than Cersei and Joff, ergo he did his best to destroy the Starks.

Regarding the bolded part, what did Tyrion do that contributed more to the downfall of the Starks than ordering Ned's head chopped off? You're evading Zupoleon's challenge to show how Tyrion did "everything within his power" to bring down the Starks, which you state without proof in your first post.

[Eating My Wings]

Do you think Sansa will want to find Tyrion guilty for not consummating the marriage?

Not raping a frightened girl isn't something to be praised for, it's the bare minimum that separates man from beast.

[nirolo]

Of course he had. A simple "No" to his father would have sufficed. What do you say? That Sansa would have married a Lannister anyway? Well, Jon faced the same dilemma at Queenscrown, but unlike Ty, Jon proved himself a man of honor.

I never compared Tyrion to Jon, have I?

And is the Jon the golden standard by which we are to use to judge everyone from now on?

Tyrion could have said No. Sure.

A more revealing fact though despite saying "yes", Tyrion never consummates the marriage, and he'd rather pay for it rather than letting Sansa suffer further.

Please look at the totality of the situation.

[Lion of Judah]

Something is amiss in your argument...

Hmm...

What is it, I wonder...

Oh yeah, Tywin.

And you are conveniently ignoring the most important person in this case: Sansa.

Do you think Sansa will want to find Tyrion guilty for not consummating the marriage?

Don't answer that, because I'm not sure if you can speak for her.

Thank the seven he didn't bed her against her will, maybe he should be rewarded after all!

[Minsc]

Something is amiss in your argument...

Hmm...

What is it, I wonder...

Oh yeah, Tywin.

What about Tywin?

[nirolo]

Not raping a frightened girl isn't something to be praised for, it's the bare minimum that separates man from beast.

Aren't you the white knight in shinning armor.

No. It would have been much easier for Tyrion to get on with Sansa. Yet, Tyrion didn't because of his own moral reasons and because he was considering Sansa. The power to overcome one's carnal instincts is not an easy thing to do.

That, my friend, speaks to character.

[Eating My Wings]

Regarding the bolded part, what did Tyrion do that contributed more to the downfall of the Starks than ordering Ned's head chopped off? You're evading Zupoleon's challenge to show how Tyrion did "everything within his power" to bring down the Starks, which you state without proof in your first post.

Let's see here...

Continuing the war?

Not chopping Littlefinger's and Varys' heads off?

Spreading the lie about Shireen?

Creating the alliance with the Tyrells and Martells?

Successfully defending KL?

Marrying Sansa?

Should I continue?

[Minsc]

Aren't you the white knight in shinning armor.

No. It would have been much easier for Tyrion to get on with Sansa. Yet, Tyrion didn't because of his own moral reasons and because he was consider Sansa. The power to overcome one's carnal instincts is not an easy thing to do.

That, my friend, speaks to character.

I haven't raped a sacred and abused 12 year old girl, yet I don't see anyone calming that demonstrates real character.

Because it only proves that someone is not monster if they don't decide to rape an abused and sacred 12 year old, instead of demonstrating any positive qualities.

[nirolo]

What about Tywin?

"You will marry Sansa Stark, Tyrion. And Soon."

Is this enough, or do I also need to divulge the title of the book to this quote?

[nirolo]

I haven't raped a sacred and abused 12 year old girl, yet I don't see anyone calming that demonstrates real character.

Because it only proves that someone is not monster if they don't decide to rape an abused and sacred 12 year old, instead of demonstrating any positive qualities.

Have you ever been put in the same situation as Tyrion?

[nirolo]

Let's see here...

Continuing the war?

Not chopping Littlefinger's and Varys' heads off?

Spreading the lie about Shireen?

Creating the alliance with the Tyrells and Martells?

Successfully defending KL?

Marrying Sansa?

Should I continue?

By this logic, should Ned Stark and Robert Baratheron be held responsible for trying to save their own lives?

[nirolo]

Thank the seven he didn't bed her against her will, maybe he should be rewarded after all!

I don't think Tyrion asks for much; not making him a head shorter should be rewarding enough.

[Eating My Wings]

By this logic, should Ned Stark and Robert Baratheron be held responsible for trying to save their own lives?

What the hell? The Starks longed for peace, the Lannisters longed for death. Yes, Renly and Stan also wanted to depose the Imp and co., but they had pretty good reasons to do so.