Rereading AGoT thru ADWD, and I'm starting to think that Dany shouldn't go to Westeros...

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

I mean, Westeros is in the shits, financially & stability-wise. Sure, if the Iron Bank gets pissed off enough, they may fund a usurper to sack the capital, and possibly absolve/lessen the Throne's debt if the original debtors are removed, but realistically? The land if screwed beyond belief.

She's still too young, still too immature. Look at the POVs where she basically salivates over the thought of him. She's a teenage girl, going through the normal teenage girl experiences, except she was also married off as part of a deal, experienced the tragic husband death/black magic/miscarriage/zombie veggie husband/burn everyone involved, got dragons, lost her husband's army, almost lost said dragons, and has been sacking cities. But she's only about 15 or 16 years old.

She has faithful followers, and fairly trustworthy advisors. But the girl is in no position to invade Westeros. The soonest she can leave for war is at least another year from the end of ADWD, and I'm only factoring her dragons into this, not her fighting force, nor her concern for her "children". From AGoT to ADWD, it's only been roughly 2 years. In ASoS, Drogon was the size of a dog, and roughly a year later (last chapter of ASoS through ADWD happened in 300AL), Drogon was large enough to carry Daenerys on his back, albeit not perfectly. Drogon is noted as being considerably larger than Rhaegal and Viserion. So she'd need at least another year, maybe more, for them to become large enough for use in battle, and that's not considering how they've gone feral and need some "domesticating". The main weapon/intimidating factor of Daenerys is her dragons. They need to be in a position to instill fear, and although they seem to be doing a good job of that in Essos, I think they should be a bit larger to make Lords take a knee instead of contemplating fighting.

She believes the Iron Throne is her's by right, and she is entitled to that opinion. But upon arrival (IMO 2.5/3 years from the end of ADWD would be ideal), Westeros will be in the middle of winter. The civil wars will still be going in the South, while the North could very well be overrun by the Others. Granted, Dany won't have a clue about the Others (nor their true capabilities; can anyone say hello to a Wighted Viserion?), but still, landing in Winter, which she's never known, which her warriors have never imagined. They won't be prepared.

As for the smallfolk embracing her, and lords taking her side, remember. Winter means supplies are scarce. Food, warmth, etc. People are stuggling to take care of themselves. Then this girl, claiming to be Queen, barges on in with a foreign army, backed by monstrous dragons. Had this been summer, people may have taken to her. But in winter? An army needs supplies. The smallfolk will suffer, and she, The Dragon Bitch, will be the enemy, no matter what she does.

The more I'm rereading, the more it makes sense for Dany to give up her goal of taking the Iron Throne. It'll most likely be a massive disaster, and even if she does succeed, the kingdom is a shell of itself, destitute and fractured. Stay in Essos, consolidate power, and either 1) wait until the next Summer, when armies and resources have been exhausted after a tough winter, or 2) Just conquer Essos, and make it the new center of the world. She'd have the power totake the unorganized lands of Essos, hell, she's traveled thousands of miles around Essos anyways. It makes more sense than rushing into disaster, as she is planning on doing.

Granted, staying in Essos would piss off the fanbase, but I'm thinking from a neutral standpoint. I could be wrong, though, what do you think?

[mrunderhill]

First I would like to differentiate what I think is best for the story and what I think is best for Dany. For the story I think she has to return to Westeros, but for Dany herself she would be better carving out a new empire for herself in Essos. She does not know what Westeros is really like and hasn't bothered to learn. She has had two opportunities to either go back or form a steady platform for her invasion. She was offered ships and she was offered a marriage alliance with Dorne, but she rejected them both. Deep down she does not even consider Westeros home. When she thinks of home it is not house with the red door.

As you said turning up to Westeros at the moment will cause all sorts of problems and lead to more suffering for the people. People will see her leading a foreign army to conquer them not a Quen returning home. A marriage to an important family might have changed that. Unfortunately I think she has no choice now, but to go back because of Aegon. How can she leave her brothers son to fight for his rightful crown by himself? How can she abandon her only remaining family? How can she go on not knowing if Aegon is legitimate? I think she will go back, I think she will sit on the Iron Throne and I think she will regret it.

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

Even if she hadn't commited to a marriage to Dorne, yet left it open whether or not she'd commit, she could have invaded while allied with Dorne, and the Iron Islands may have went to her if Euron really thought he had a chance to snare her/her dragons. So Dany's forces, and Dorne and (maybe) The Iron Islands.

The North will be a non-factor, and I think The Vale would sit out as well. If (f?)Aegon could take the Stormlands, and rally the lords to his cause, they'd likely align with Dany. The Riverlands, while Riverrun is held by the Freys, Littlefinger is Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. I think a portion of the Riverlands will fight for the crown, while another will be persuaded by Baelish to sit out, somehow. The rest fight for the throne.

So Dany's forces, with (f?)Aegon's Stormlands, Dorne, and The Iron Islands, versus The Crownlands, The Reach, The Westerlands, and a portion of The Riverlands, while The North, The Vale, and the remaining Riverlands abstain.

She'd win.She'd be beloved by many. And she'd choose her spouse freely. But instead, she's messed everything up at every turn. The girl has been foolish, and it'll come back to haunt her. And as you mentioned, mrunderhill, there is (f?)Aegon. I forgot about him. Now she'll be compelled to rush back, heaven forbid he really is fake and she finds out.

[lostinwesteros]

I guess the one thing I feel most sure of, IMO and also in terms of ASOIAF development, is that she sure shouldn't

remain in Meereen/Essos. And with the host of characters headed her way at the end of ADWD, there'll be plenty of Westerosi support and encouragement for her to go for the IT [provided it's still there]. The outcome of her meeting with (can't remember his name - one of the blood riders who left when Drogo died) at the end of her last POV in ADWD is still unknown, but even if she prevails in that situation, I see a stay in Essos as a dead end for her.

I also think that one of the major 'happenings' by the end of TWOW will be a confluence of some sort among Dany's dragons, the Ice Dragon, and probably the Others. This last is just my own personal crack-pot theory. :idea:

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

I guess the one thing I feel most sure of, IMO and also in terms of ASOIAF development, is that she sure shouldn't

remain in Meereen/Essos. And with the host of characters headed her way at the end of ADWD, there'll be plenty of Westerosi support and encouragement for her to go for the IT [provided it's still there]. The outcome of her meeting with (can't remember his name - one of the blood riders who left when Drogo died) at the end of her last POV in ADWD is still unknown, but even if she prevails in that situation, I see a stay in Essos as a dead end for her.

I also think that one of the major 'happenings' by the end of TWOW will be a confluence of some sort among Dany's dragons, the Ice Dragon, and probably the Others. This last is just my own personal crack-pot theory. :idea:

The Ice Dragon, IMO, isn't a true Dragon that breathes cold, but rather a Dragon that has been brought back by The Great Other. Dragons, creatures of flame and connected to magic, would seemingly be connected to R'hllor. If the power of the Others can corrupt other beasts, why not a Dragon? It'd lose it's connection to Fire and Light, and thus become the opposite, a creature of Ice and Dark.

And the Stone Dragon? I think it's a hoax. Or Mushu from Mulan.

[King Tyrion VIII]

I see Dany going to Valyria instead of Westeros.

[Castellan]

We don't know if she is going to Westeros right now. When she stands up to face Khal Whatsit she seems to have found a new strength and have a new idea. She may go east to go west...

But I agree Essos seems more valuable than Westeros. With Westeros in winter, control of a city in Essos could be a huge asset for her.

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

Taking even a portion of Essos, possibly the ports, she'd be able to get a stranglehold on trade to Essos, and then set up relations for a later invasion... Hell, the Valyrian Freehold contained all of Essos. Time to bring it back.

[Morienthar]

Also westeros doesn't need another Mad King.....

[mindchap]

I just hate to think she would turn her back on all that she has done in Essos, because as soon as she's gone the slavers will execute everyone of her followers as an example to any more slaves who think they want to revolt and her entire story line up to this point will have been absolutely meaningless.

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

I just hate to think she would turn her back on all that she has done in Essos, because as soon as she's gone the slavers will execute everyone of her followers as an example to any more slaves who think they want to revolt and her entire story line up to this point will have been absolutely meaningless.

Exactly. Her attachment to her "children" is strong, so much so it clouds her judgement in terms of invading Westeros. Unless all of the Slavers in all of Essos magically die, leaving them behind would leave them worse off than when she found them slaves.

[lostinwesteros]

The Ice Dragon, IMO, isn't a true Dragon that breathes cold, but rather a Dragon that has been brought back by The Great Other. Dragons, creatures of flame and connected to magic, would seemingly be connected to R'hllor. If the power of the Others can corrupt other beasts, why not a Dragon? It'd lose it's connection to Fire and Light, and thus become the opposite, a creature of Ice and Dark.

And the Stone Dragon? I think it's a hoax. Or Mushu from Mulan.

Here's a link that touches on the ice dragon(s).

http://awoiaf.wester....php/Ice_dragon

I just think old Nan's stories are anything but mere ramblings of an old lady, even though they appear to consist only of myths/legends. Three times in ADWD Jon remembers Old Nan's stories about the ice dragons, each memory focused on the cold breath of the ice dragons. The Valyrians never tamed ice dragons as they did fire dragons. There is a constellation of stars named the ice dragon "whose blue eye points north". This reminds me of Bran's dream just before he awoke, when he looked north and north and north and shuddered at what he saw (not an exact quote, I'm afraid, but this is the substance of what I'm referring to), whereupon the raven said to him something like, "Now you see, now you see why you must live". Then, by ADWD, of course, we have Bran way, way up in 'ice land' with BR.

I think they probably do have a base connection to the Others -- there're lots of theories out there that the Others aren't necessarily evil. I keep thinking of Jon and Dany, of Ice and Fire, and the ASOIAF title of the series. In order for that to happen, Dany's got to be in Westeros. ;)

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

I could be 'way out there in crazy land, but here's a link that touches on the ice dragon(s).

http://awoiaf.wester....php/Ice_dragon

I think old Nan's stories are anything but mere ramblings of an old lady, even though they appear to consist only of myths/legends. Three times in ADWD Jon remembers Old Nan's stories about the ice dragons, each memory focused on the cold breath of the ice dragons. The Valyrians never tamed ice dragons as they did fire dragons. There is a constellation of stars named the ice dragon "whose blue eye points north". This reminds me of Bran's dream just before he awoke, when he looked north and north and north and shuddered at what he saw (not an exact quote, I'm afraid, but this is the substance of what I'm referring to), whereupon the raven said to him something like, "Now you see, now you see why you must live". Then, by ADWD, of course, we have Bran way, way up in 'ice land' with BR.

I think they probably do have a base connection to the Others -- there're lots of theories out there that the Others aren't necessarily evil. I keep thinking of Jon and Dany, of Ice and Fire, and the ASOIAF title of the series. Just my [crackpot ?] theory. B)

I hear ya. My theory really hinges on the possibility of a Dragon reaching Westeros in prerecorded history, really. It's not really impossible, but it IS fairly improbable. But if one did, the North would be prime hunting grounds. Massive beasts live there, suitable prey for a beast the size of a dragon. When winter falls, however, so would the dragon. Albeit temporarily.

[cade]

I don't want Dany in Westeros unless it's to fight the Others (assuming they ever become an existential threat) or retrieve an abducted dragon. Abolishing slavery is infinitely more important and worth dying for than some throne in a strange, faraway land that she only feels connected to through dead relatives.

Even if fAegon falsely assumes the throne under her family's name, I don't think it's worth going to war to stop him, not unless he becomes a total monster.

I doubt this will happen, since GRRM has said "this story is about Westeros. Those other lands are important only as they reflect on Westeros" and after ASOS had been planning on the next book featuring Dany's invasion of Westeros, but I'd love to see her fulfill the prophecy of uniting the khalasars and revolutionize the Dothraki into being anti-slavery.

[cade]

I hear ya. My theory really hinges on the possibility of a Dragon reaching Westeros in prerecorded history, really. It's not really impossible, but it IS fairly improbable. But if one did, the North would be prime hunting grounds. Massive beasts live there, suitable prey for a beast the size of a dragon. When winter falls, however, so would the dragon. Albeit temporarily.

Well, GRRM has said "There were dragons all over, once."

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

I think Dany's at a crossroads, psychologically speaking. She's either going to be a benevolent queen, which would lead her to stay put and unite Essos into a new kingdom, a land of freedom under her name, or she'll become a bit more ruthless, a bit more willing to step over the smallfolk to get what she must, despite starting to show similarities to her more... Eccentric relatives.

[Rheagar Prime]

and this is why aegon is so important she will go just to see him. Thats why i'm glad he went, whether people say tyrion was tricking him or not cause it really gives her a reason to go.

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

Well, GRRM has said "There were dragons all over, once."

Never saw that before... I feel somewhat better about my theory, lol.

[cade]

and this is why aegon is so important she will go just to see him. Thats why i'm glad he went, whether people say tyrion was tricking him or not cause it really gives her a reason to go.

D'oh, I forgot to consider that possibility. Certainly wouldn't fault her going to visit him just out of excitement that another Targaryen is or might be alive. Though I tend to think she'll be highly dubious of him based on the mummer's dragon prophecy and her distrust of Illyrio.

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

Aegon makes it an obligation, for sure. Whether or not he's honestly her nephew doesn't matter, but it's not like she herself can look and say for sure it isn't him. You can bet she'd look for any inconcistencies with his stories, not that's she'd really know the truth in many of them, but Selmy would.