caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I happen to be in the camp that thinks Jon isn't dead and won't need to be resurrected, but if that is in fact the case...I think the majority of people think Mel will resurrect Jon using her Lord of Light powers, but what if it is the Old Gods/Bran/Bloodraven?How do you think Mel would react to that? Would she see the error of her ways and find that Jon is AA reborn or would she see his resurrection by powers other than her own as a sign that Jon is the Champion of the Great Other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I happen to be in the camp that thinks Jon isn't dead and won't need to be resurrected, but if that is in fact the case...I think the majority of people think Mel will resurrect Jon using her Lord of Light powers, but what if it is the Old Gods/Bran/Bloodraven?How do you think Mel would react to that? Would she see the error of her ways and find that Jon is AA reborn or would she see his resurrection by powers other than her own as a sign that Jon is the Champion of the Great Other?She could go a whole diffrent way,If no one is witness to his revival by the Old Gods and say she did it anyway.But if people do see it,I think she'll say that he's the champion of the Great Other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I think that once Jon is resurrected she'll see that Jon is AAR and then understand why she saw "Snow" in the flames rather than Stannis, and help him as she's helped Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 If Jon dies — still a big if — I do expect the old gods to be the ones to do the honors ...... namely with Theon's sacrifice at the heart tree being what pays for Jon's life. I mean really, why do you think the weirwood execution is even a thing in the WoW chapter?This is my crackpot theory and I can hear the derision and bitching about it even as I type, but ...Theon's life is sacrificed to pay for Jon's via the weirwood tree. Jon's dead body is put on a pyre to burn so he won't become a wight. Theon's life restores Jon's and the fire wakes him up. He's not Dany in this scenario, he's her dragon eggs. Fire and blood wake the dragon, while combining elements of both ice (weirwood sacrifice and old gods) and fire (the pyre). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Depends on how exactly he'd be raised:If he just after looking dead for a bit gets his rosy cheeks flushed and is alive again, then Mel would probably think that her god still has a purpose for him and revived him (may even claim she did it herself). Doesn't mean that she'll immediately believe he's AA though - she's not looking for AA anymore, she thinks she has already found him.If on the other hand he'll come climbing out of his grave with the same dead flesh, coal eyes and blackened hands as Coldhands, she'll cry "Other-demon!" before he'll have found his bearings, and even if he can persuade her to consider the possibility that he might not be an evil evil abomination, she'll never think of him as AA.If it should be Bloodraven's magic that resurrects him, than I believe that it will play out more like the second scenario than the first. After all, Coldhands looks like Coldhands as well. EDIT: Unless of course Bloodraven gets some extra help like a Theon sacrifice as Apple Martini pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I just have this feeling that Mel's reaction if he is raised by someone other than her won't be what we expect.If she sees it as the work of her enemy she could interpret her visions to have meant that Jon is in league with the Others and go batshit crazy on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 If Jon dies — still a big if — I do expect the old gods to be the ones to do the honors ...... namely with Theon's sacrifice at the heart tree being what pays for Jon's life. I mean really, why do you think the weirwood execution is even a thing in the WoW chapter?This is my crackpot theory and I can hear the derision and bitching about it even as I type, but ...Theon's life is sacrificed to pay for Jon's via the weirwood tree. Jon's dead body is put on a pyre to burn so he won't become a wight. Theon's life restores Jon's and the fire wakes him up. He's not Dany in this scenario, he's her dragon eggs. Fire and blood wake the dragon, while combining elements of both ice (weirwood sacrifice and old gods) and fire (the pyre).Reads like a script for a bolloywood movie.But stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black carrion Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Don't think he's dead either also I can't help thinking he is not Ned's bastard that he's another one of baratheon's but with Ned's sister so he would have claim to the usurper throne ?? I think melissandre has the wrong end of the stick and is either stirring the pot for the powers in essos or otherwise trying to be the queen in the end??? Doubt strongly that jon will convert to the red god but this is grrm and it will likely go the opposite way to logic and reason as I said to other fans - you don't say someone is dead until you see the body and even then you're never quite sure!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 If Jon dies — still a big if — I do expect the old gods to be the ones to do the honors ...... namely with Theon's sacrifice at the heart tree being what pays for Jon's life. I mean really, why do you think the weirwood execution is even a thing in the WoW chapter?This is my crackpot theory and I can hear the derision and bitching about it even as I type, but ...Theon's life is sacrificed to pay for Jon's via the weirwood tree. Jon's dead body is put on a pyre to burn so he won't become a wight. Theon's life restores Jon's and the fire wakes him up. He's not Dany in this scenario, he's her dragon eggs. Fire and blood wake the dragon, while combining elements of both ice (weirwood sacrifice and old gods) and fire (the pyre).I think it was actually one of your posts that made me think of this AM. :)My question isn't so much the mechanics of how Jon is raised by the Old God powers, but others reaction to that, Mel being chief among them.I can't see how she would see him being raised by someone other than the Lord of Light as a good thing.I can see Stannis not believing Jon was ever dead.The Northerners of course would be all for it.Some of the Watch might flip out (But then again I think the Wall and the Watch are destroyed before Jon ever wakes up...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black carrion Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Don't think he's dead either also I can't help thinking he is not Ned's bastard that he's another one of baratheon's but with Ned's sister so he would have claim to the usurper throne ?? I think melissandre has the wrong end of the stick and is either stirring the pot for the powers in essos or otherwise trying to be the queen in the end??? Doubt strongly that jon will convert to the red god but this is grrm and it will likely go the opposite way to logic and reason as I said to other fans - you don't say someone is dead until you see the body and even then you're never quite sure!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Don't think he's dead either also I can't help thinking he is not Ned's bastard that he's another one of baratheon's but with Ned's sister so he would have claim to the usurper throne ?? I think melissandre has the wrong end of the stick and is either stirring the pot for the powers in essos or otherwise trying to be the queen in the end??? Doubt strongly that jon will convert to the red god but this is grrm and it will likely go the opposite way to logic and reason as I said to other fans - you don't say someone is dead until you see the body and even then you're never quite sure!!You my friend need to read the R+L=J thread pinned at the top of the forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black carrion Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Excellent will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I find the Theon sacrifice unlikely because The reader said something about some prince in the past disputing kingsmoot because he wasn't present and I believe the history will repeat itself with Theon and he needs to be alive for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I find the Theon sacrifice unlikely because The reader said something about some prince in the past disputing kingsmoot because he wasn't present and I believe the history will repeat itself with Theon and he needs to be alive for that.I thought this at first as well... and maybe it is a stretch, but since the Ironborn don't seem to take much stock in their crown staying in the same family who is to say that The Reader's foreshadowing couldn't apply to other worthy contenders who wish to rule over the Ironborn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I thought this at first as well... and maybe it is a stretch, but since the Ironborn don't seem to take much stock in their crown staying in the same family who is to say that The Reader's foreshadowing couldn't apply to other worthy contenders who wish to rule over the Ironborn?Maybe, but I don't recall anyone else notable being absent from the kingsmoot and I'd hate some deux ex machina savoir taking on the role. Is there some noteworthy Ironborn I forgot about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 No, but I don't remember anything in the moot that said the claimant had to be Iron Born. Originally the Iron Islands were ruled by the First Men... A King over the lands, a sea king, and the High King selected at the moot.Jon is descended from the First Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 He does not have to be Ironborn de iuro, but the question is whether he would be chosen if he is not one. If you were an Iron Islander, why would you want Jon as your king? Or any other mainlander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 They go back to the old ways.. Jon takes up the mantle of High King (along with being King in the North), Asha becomes the land King(Queen), and Vic becomes the Sea King.But... I've derailed my own thread... haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Mel will just take credit for Jon's ressurection, just like she took credit for the deaths of Joff, Balon, and Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheswamp Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Jon opened his eyes. The bodies of the watch and wildlings were scattered across the yard. A black hand lifted Jon from the ground. His uncle's gaunt face stared at him with blue eyes. Behind him, a great hole had formed in the Wall. They turned south as the fallen arose around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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