Babeldygob Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 According to the wiki Dirk, Ollo Lophand, Grubbs, Garth Greenaway, Alan of Rosby, Rolley, Mawney, Karl, Orphan Oss and Muttering Bill stayed behind at Craster's Keep. The wiki also says that after they feasted on Craster's larder and raped his women, they left and planned to head south, only to be killed by Coldhands. This does not seem to match what's in the books however. Summer finds them and sees that there are 'as many as fingers on a man's paw', meaning five, which must mean that either the rest of them died, they split into two groups or some stayed behind.We know Grubss dies at Craster's Keep, Ollo Lophand is with the men who left Craster's Keep, since he is described. This leaves four men who are either separated from them or still at Craster's Keep. There might have been a fight within the group forcing half of them to leave.Considering that these men are all rapers and thieves, a scenario where they all kill each other until one remains is not at all unthinkable.Does this mean we have a new Craster? Who? Or is Craster's Keep no more? Where are his wives and daughters if indeed they all left?It's interesting to note that some of the NW men were actually envious of Craster and his lifestyle and we can assume at least one of the four wanted to stay and be the new Craster. If there is no Craster anymore, what does it mean for the Others if they can't have human babies anymore? They must be useful for them somehow.What was the purpose of the mutiny? Was it just GRRM writing realism? Or is there a reason for Craster to die and someone to take his place? Craster was getting old, he's described as a man nearing the end of his life. It may have been GRRM's purpose that he be replaced.It's also interesting to note the reason they were at Craster's Keep, driven back by the Others. Could the Others have anticipated the mutiny?Who remains? The man we know 'best' among the traitors is Dirk, he's actually the one that killed Craster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Crow Come Over Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 According to the wiki Dirk, Ollo Lophand, Grubbs, Garth Greenaway, Alan of Rosby, Rolley, Mawney, Karl, Orphan Oss and Muttering Bill stayed behind at Craster's Keep. The wiki also says that after they feasted on Craster's larder and raped his women, they left and planned to head south, only to be killed by Coldhands. This does not seem to match what's in the books however. Summer finds them and sees that there are 'as many as fingers on a man's paw', meaning five, which must mean that either the rest of them died, they split into two groups or some stayed behind.We know Grubss dies at Craster's Keep, Ollo Lophand is with the men who left Craster's Keep, since he is described. This leaves four men who are either separated from them or still at Craster's Keep. There might have been a fight within the group forcing half of them to leave.Considering that these men are all rapers and thieves, a scenario where they all kill each other until one remains is not at all unthinkable.Does this mean we have a new Craster? Who? Or is Craster's Keep no more? Where are his wives and daughters if indeed they all left?It's interesting to note that some of the NW men were actually envious of Craster and his lifestyle and we can assume at least one of the four wanted to stay and be the new Craster. If there is no Craster anymore, what does it mean for the Others if they can't have human babies anymore? They must be useful for them somehow.What was the purpose of the mutiny? Was it just GRRM writing realism? Or is there a reason for Craster to die and someone to take his place? Craster was getting old, he's described as a man nearing the end of his life. It may have been GRRM's purpose that he be replaced.It's also interesting to note the reason they were at Craster's Keep, driven back by the Others. Could the Others have anticipated the mutiny?Who remains? The man we know 'best' among the traitors is Dirk, he's actually the one that killed Craster.I dont think any schmo can have the arrangement with the Others that Craster had, I think his blood was special (Maybe some long forgotten Stark?) and thats why they wanted his sons.The ones that CH didn't kill are probably already dead or will soon be dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babeldygob Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I dont think any schmo can have the arrangement with the Others that Craster had, I think his blood was special (Maybe some long forgotten Stark?) and thats why they wanted his sons.The ones that CH didn't kill are probably already dead or will soon be dead.Why would they be dead? And why wouldn't the Others want his wives as well as his sons if it was because of his blood? Also, since Craster's daughters are so inbred we can assume that whoever first lay with Craster (I'm hoping it wasn't his mother) won't have a lot of her blood left in her eventual offspring, meaning that Craster's daughters are almost purebred female Crasters. If another man lay with them, a lot of Craster's blood would remain in the offspring, so either way, the sons may stay valuable for some time at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Posts Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I actually hate the idea that Coldhands murdered ALL of the mutineers and fed them all to Bran and co. to keep them alive.Talk about a total bullshit way of clearing up a loose thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelMertyns Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It would be cool if we stumbled back on Craster's Keep in the next two books (we'll be travelling right by there on our way to the far north and back) and found out one or more of the black crows were 'holding down the fort'.It did say as Sam was leaving, that "the white walkers were on their way" to collect Craster's new son. So that might be why the group broke up or how some of them died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hold on, what happened to Craster's wives? Are you saying that Coldhands fed all those people to Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think the mutineers left the wives for dead, the women were already trying to fight them in the parts we see in the books. As for the surviving mutineers, Coldhands/Bloodraven took care of them, you don't violate Guest Right in Old God territory and get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The theory that I have come around to is that the 6 missing rangers couldn't find Tormund so they went to Crasters to finish things with the deserters. Coldhands killed some of them and hopefuly Thorne and his lot settled accounts with the fellows who were left. I suppose a living human who was ethralled by the Others somehow could enter the caves that Bran was hiding in as well as open the gates of the Wall for them. So I suppose that living human servants might have some value to them if they realise this.As far as numbers go, about 12-14 guys made it back and there was like 45 or so guys left when they got to Crasters, might be srong on that. Seems like there could be 10 or 20 left after the ones Coldhands killed. Maybe I'll grab my book and try to get a more exact tally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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