Jon using both Dawn and the Night's Watch against The Others?

[butterbumps!]

A couple of other things. I'm not sure if it was you, or someone else, but I really dont like the idea of the game of thrones being pointless. The entire plot of the story has revolved around who will sit the IT, and for Martin to at the last second say something like "well the entire plot was basically filler for the real threat, the Others" just doesn't strike me as something he will do. I think who sits the Iron Throne is very much a main point of the story and well have direct results in the fight against the Others. How it all ties in I am still unsure, but I have faith that it is very important and will tie in somehow.

Well, I'm in the camp that the game and song are part of the same thing, so I wouldn't have argued the game is pointless. We've already seen that people are using the "song" to influence the game-- Dany w/ dragons, Mel-Stannis, Moqorro, Benerro, Euron, Valyria itself etc. This is highly speculative, but I think we might see others emerge using magic for politics (my dearest Roose crackpot, lol), and more plausibly, Bloodraven, who I suspect has political ends. The song doesn't really make sense without the game. The magic is a source of power, which has obvious political implication. I don't think you really get the full impact of this by separating them, so I agree with you.

True, but the obvious answer is magic. Dragons are very much so creatures of magic, who were only born threw a magic ritual when magic returned to the world. The Others are not ice cubes, but are beings of magic as well. I can't tell you how interested I am for a dragon to meet the Others. The dragons already don't like the rain in Mereen, and hide inside when it rains. How are the going to handle the North in the middle of winter with 40 foot snow banks and freezing temperatures when the Others come.

Agreed. I think there's a tendency to see this as simple elemental duality, and especially that fire will trump ice, but as you point out, there's magic behind both, which makes appeals to physical science a little moot when trying to predict things here.

In DWD Jon brings corpses to the other side of the Wall, puts them inside the ice cells, and they turn into Wights. Not sure what this implies, but if wights are created through a similar process as warging (which I believe so), I don't think it's a strict 1 to 1 warging like we see the Stark kids doing. I think it's more of a proximity to the heart of winter type thing. From this I don't think it's too much of a leap to say that basically any Corpse near the wall turns into a wight. As the influence of the heart of winter stretches out so shall the ability of corpses to turn into wights. This could have dire consequences for the North in the upcoming battles.

Actually, those corpses don't turn into wights. Othor and Jafer, the two wights found in aGoT and brought back, were already transformed-- their eyes were blue before being placed at the Wall. Conversely, the corpses Jon recovers and chains don't have the blue eyes. They haven't risen yet.

[King of Winters]

On the matter of Dawn being the original Lightbringer, could the fact that it's "pale as milkglass, alive with light" be a hint at it being the past and original Lightbringer? And as the sun is actually white and brings light, and Dawn is "alive" with light, glowing even, could this be a hint as to Dawn actually bringing light and being Azor Ahai's first Lightbringer?

[J. Stargaryen]

On the matter of Dawn being the original Lightbringer, could the fact that it's "pale as milkglass, alive with light" be a hint at it being the past and original Lightbringer? And as the sun is actually white and brings light, and Dawn is "alive" with light, glowing even, could this be a hint as to Dawn actually bringing light and being Azor Ahai's first Lightbringer?

AGoT, Prologue:

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss.

“Come no farther,” the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy’s. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

---

Have just read through this thread. Good stuff by butterbumps! wrt to the Others warging the Wights. It's something I had been wondering about myself recently. Specifically after reading the prologue of ADwD.

[Lyse Stark]

Dragonglass - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled lava (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others

Dragonsteel - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled meteorite (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others.

If you want more info on meteorites then here's the wiki link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite

And yes I know about that Russian meteor shower. It was pretty surreal for the people who lived there.

[drayrock]

One of the popular theories about Lightbringer is that it's the NW and Jon will use it to fight The Others. I like the theory about Dawn being the original Lightbringer and also being Dragonsteel.

And I was wondering could the NW be Lightbringer but Jon still wields Dawn, and if it's Dragonsteel, then Jon has a purpose to use it. He has a sword that's made of a substance The Others can't stand and can kill them and unites men against them with Dawn when they see it can kill Others, but the NW still Lightbringer.

Just a little thought I had.

I like this theory, but it REALLY fits well if Jon is actually a dayne as opposed to a Targ. Then I'm loving it. Otherwise, Dawn will have some role to play but I don't seem him wielding it. I really only see him getting it, if he is in fact revealed to be a dayne and then someone would consider him worthy of the blade and his heritage would allow it.