daario's man Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I don't even know why I like the idea of Jon being a bastard more than him not being one but I just kindda do. I like the fact that despite his closeness to the Stark children he was always forced to step aside or away when push came to shove. (For example at the feast when the King comes to Winterfell he is not seated with the high table with his other brothers and sisters, in fact I don't think he was allowed to the feast if memory recalls). Anyway my point is he being pushed aside in certain situations mainly by Cat has made him into the character we love. I don't see why I need to know Jon Snow's mother and father, I like him as the bastard who grew with the Starks because it made his character. :agree: It doesn't matter that Rhaegar is his biological father, Ned raised him and gave him his sense of honour, while Cat forced him away making him more accepting of outsiders. Rhaegar's sperm donation may make him the key to some prophesy or other, but being the bastard of Winterfell made him the man he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Garcia Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 No.Targaryens have been known to engage in polygamy at least once before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 It's not really about preference, it's about what makes sense from the textual evidence. If, by some wild chance, R+L=J is a lie, then Ned would need a bloody good excuse for leaving Jon in the dark about his mother. Can't Jon be trusted to know his mother is Ashara Dayne or Wylla or whoever? Jon being a secret Targ lovechild dovetails perfectly with Ned's tight-lipped stance over his origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Jon being a secret Targ lovechild dovetails perfectly with Ned's tight-lipped stance over his origin.Again, i really don't agree that Jon was born out of wedlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I dont. I believe R+L=J, but I dont want it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor the Fabulous Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 At first I liked Jon being Ned's bastard but I gradually got to like R+L=J. It made Jon a true born son and also it gives evidence that Ned remained faithful to Cat.It doesn't make Jon a true born son, Rhaegar was married with Elia Martell, thus any child with Lyanna would be a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 It doesn't make Jon a true born son, Rhaegar was married with Elia Martell, thus any child with Lyanna would be a bastard.Wrong. Targs can be polygamous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techelles Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Am I the only one who places more value on the truth than on what I want to be true? I believe R+L=J because the evidence is formidable, not because I decided I like it better than other theories. Why would anyone approach a theory from a position of feelings over a position of evidence? I don't necessarily love or hate either possibility; my only interest is in what is actually true. Based on all the evidence, R+L=J makes far more sense than anything else.Because of that, and because I happen to agree with Martin about the standards of good storytelling, I do think that R+L=J is the preferable idea. Otherwise, the evidence doesn't make sense, and Martin has made his feelings very clear about evidence that doesn't make sense. This is the only reason I'd say that I "like" the theory.GRRM's thoughts.]Do you use to check the Internet forums in order to see the predictions made by your fans?GRRM: I am aware of the principal Internet forums about A Song of Ice and Fire and I really used to look at the American and English groups. Nowadays, the most important site is Westeros, but I started to feel uncomfortable and I thought it would be a better idea not to get to these sides. The fans use to come up with theories; lots of them are just speculative but some of them are in the right way. Before the Internet, one reader could guess the ending you wanna do for your novel, but the other 10.000 wouldn’t know anything and they would be surprised. However, now, those 10.000 people use the Internet and read the right theories. They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing your work well, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point to the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Wrong. Targs can be polygamous.They can be? They have a god-given right? I didn't think polygamy was actually that common among Targs, anyway, with only a handful of examples.By what right did Rhaegar suddenly make this legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 They can be? They have a god-given right?I didn't think polygamy was actually that common among Targs, anyway, with only a handful of examples.By what right did Rhaegar suddenly make this legal?It was already perfectly legal. I don't want to get in a long debate with you, because its something that's been gone over 10,0000,0000,00000 times in the forums, but if you're curious, post on the RL=J sticky thread in this forum. There's a great guide on the first page, and the posters are super insightful on the subject.Have you ever wondered why the King's Guard were at the tower of joy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Ned is Jon's father,Rheagar was just a sperm donor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Is that because you refuse to consider it, or that you've just never been presented with the evidence?If the latter, the RLJ sticky thread might interest you.The first. Such twist would just ruin everything for me. Also, I find it highly unlikely and am strongly against the theory ^.^ But thanks for recommending that thread :)Targaryens have been known to engage in polygamy at least once before.That proves nothing. As mentioned above, I'm strongly against this theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 The first. Such twist would just ruin everything for me. Also, I find it highly unlikely and am strongly against the theory ^.^ But thanks for recommending that threadWell i don't want to 'ruin everything for you', but the King's Guard weren't at the Tower of Joy to guard a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 That proves nothing. As mentioned above, I'm strongly against this theory.What about it are you against? The Targs didn't outlaw polygamy, and as yolkboy said above me the KG weren't there at the ToJ to guard a bastard, when they could have gone to Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 It was already perfectly legal. I don't want to get in a long debate with you, because its something that's been gone over 10,0000,0000,00000 times in the forums, but if you're curious, post on the RL=J sticky thread in this forum. There's a great guide on the first page, and the posters are super insightful on the subject.Have you ever wondered why the King's Guard were at the tower of joy?You sort of derailed me from my original point. Legitimate son or no, Ned had to protect Jon's identity to the point where he couldn't even trust his own wife with the information because if word leaked then Bobby B would want the "dragon spawn" on a spike and Ned would probably go to war with his old friend. There's really no need for all the smoke and mirrors from Ned if Jon was born to a common whore or even Ashara Dayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Smiling Eye Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 As long as he becomes King in the North or rules the IT, I could care less if he's Alys Karstark's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Well i don't want to 'ruin everything for you', but the King's Guard weren't at the Tower of Joy to guard a bastard.They were there to guard Rhaegar's pregnant love, whose maniac ex-betrothed was at war with Rhaegar's family, on Rhaegar's orders. So many KG at ToJ makes sense to me for this one reason: their love, loyalty and respect for Rhaegar and thus doing everything he ordered them to do. Even if that baby was legitimate, why not have the three KG guard Aegon who is still the rightful heir, since older than Lyanna's child? It doesn't prove anything and doesn't make either theory more likely, if you ask me.What about it are you against? The Targs didn't outlaw polygamy, and as yolkboy said above me the KG weren't there at the ToJ to guard a bastard, when they could have gone to Viserys.As I mentioned above. And what I don't like about it is that from bastard to bastard hero is a cliché, but from bastard to secret prince is even more so. But in fact Jon Snow with all his jonsnowness will be like Luke Skywalker once he learns Rhaegar is his father and refuse the throne anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 He will always be Ned's son so I don't think it really matters that much. I like the R+L=J theory but I don't personally care about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 As I mentioned above. And what I don't like about it is that from bastard to bastard hero is a cliché, but from bastard to secret prince is even more so. But in fact Jon Snow with all his jonsnowness will be like Luke Skywalker once he learns Rhaegar is his father and refuse the throne anyways.I agree. Jon will not want the IT and will stay north, probably becoming King in the North. And the bastard from prince thing won't matter if he doesn't want the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I agree. Jon will not want the IT and will stay north, probably becoming King in the North. And the bastard from prince thing won't matter if he doesn't want the IT.Hmm, you are right about that. And if you think about it, Martin can do worse twists too, so... yeah... but I still hope, Jon is a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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