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The Wolves

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  1. The Wolves

    Was Robert's Rebellion justified ?

    Why should innocent Targaryen women and children and the realm by extension suffer because of Aerys and Rhaegar’s mistakes? Someone explain to me why Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, Rhaella, Viserys and Daenerys all suffered because they were Targaryens? And honestly fuck this Robert’s rebellion. It took the deaths of nobles for these powerful men to act. While Aerys spent years acting crazy and being a threat they sat back and did nothing. We don’t know how Aegon would have turned out as king(I would bet money that he would be a better king than any of the Baratheons)but he was a child and could have been shaped to be great one with the right mentors. The rebellion wasn’t even about disposing of the Targaryen throne. And please don’t mention that ugly show. The Baratheons are done, half of them are dead, the other half are bastards who are getting murdered and the royal ones are incest Lannisters bastards. The Baratheons don’t even control the throne, Robert was murdered by his wife for the throne, Stannis killed Renly for the throne and left Robert surrounded by Lannisters for the throne. The Baratheons are tethering on extinction because of the throne, it has come back to bite them.
  2. The Wolves

    Was Robert's Rebellion justified ?

    This is what I’ve been arguing for years. Robert’s Rebellion was 100% justified(though I’ll still argue that Arryn should have never started a war over two men)but disposing of the Targaryen dynasty was not. And yes taking the throne will bite them in the ass(from the looks of it it already has)
  3. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    No he wouldn’t. Aerys haven’t left the keep for years. His son and heir Is missing and it’s dangerous and stupid to try to march on the Vale in winter. Aint nobody was marching to the Vale.
  4. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    What double standard? I’m arguing that Viserys has a legit cause to want revenge. People are using Viserys to say “look he did grow up to want revenge” and I’m saying that what was taken from him and what he suffered at the rebels hands at 8yr old is why he wants revenge. The rebels weren’t doing anything for revenge(unless it was Robert killing Rhaegar)they went to war for self preservation.
  5. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    No, I blame Robert for being a horrible king and his reign being the reason that a civil war has happened. His house was not right and yes he has blame. Tell me how he gets so drunk that his wife the queen can have sex right next to him with his Kingsguard which is her brother? How does he not pay attention to his treasure that he’s millions in debt? How does the King who is of House Baratheon be surrounded by Lannister? How does a king go hunting drunk when two great houses are at each other’s throat? Why was Joffery so unprepared for ruling and everything doctrine in him about ruling from his crazy mother? Why was Jaime still a Kingsguard after murdering the previous king? Why was House Lannister rewarded for their treachery and murders? Why wasn’t the Red Keep sweep of people like Pycell and the eunuch? Everything I mentioned above have helped lead to TWOT5Ks. When did Robert not have the power to change any of these outcomes? He knew what Joffery was and what Cersei was whispering in his ear, yet he wanted to run across the ocean and not fix it. I’m not blaming Robert for anyone’s actions I’m blaming him for the lack of his. The rebels did have the right to fight for their lives. But they in their right helped throw millions of people’s lives in chaos. They changed the world and reading ASOIAF it wasn’t for the better IMO.
  6. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    So? There were still people who he would blame for his brothers deaths or his mothers‘ but where was the war started over that? Did Jaehaerys start a whole war with the realm for following his mad uncle, or for killing his brother? Did the Starks destroy whole houses and start multiple wars because their vessels kept rebelling and killing their family? “Take back the throne” being the key word. Viserys thought this way because he was the only Targaryen male alive and he believes the throne belonged to him. I don’t know why we are talking about Viserys, Aegon would have been proclaimed king(and Aerys decree wouldn’t have mattered)Aegon would have had the Martells(who don’t have any love for Rhaegar or Aerys)and a bunch of nobles one his council to rule. Viserys would not have mattered. That’s fine. I’m pointing out that everyone have choices and each choice has a consequence. Arryn, Ned and Jon were sitting in an impenetrable castle at the beginning of winter when the rebellion started. They could have waited it out. What was Aerys going to do march to the Vale during winter to get two men?
  7. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    Correct me if I’m wrong but Mortimer was killed because he took royal power and ruled, not because of vengeance. Aegon still came into power at 16yrs and there was no punishment from the leftover Greens. Viserys lived through the death of his father, brother, and mother, his home was taken and him and his baby sister ran out of their home. His niece and nephew murdered and He feared for his life for about 15yrs everyday. He carried the Targaryen name and sister and was responsible for their survival. He had every right to pray for vengeance. Robert refusing to punish Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys’ murders does make him to blame. Tywin killed those children in Robert’s name and Robert not only accepted the wrapped up mutilated bodies he also rewarded him. And like I said him claiming the throne signed their death warrant, why do you think he sent people after Viserys and Dany? Robert should have killed himself. He was a horrible king, father, friend and human being.
  8. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    I don’t care what anyone says about Rhaegar, but the fact that he saw his father and the danger he was to the realm and wanted him removed is a reason I can’t and won’t dislike him. Rhaegar was the only one who was doing something regarding Aerys and his craziness.
  9. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    Please give me an example of a boy king anywhere in history growing up and getting power and punishing or starting a war for his dead ancestors? Why would Aegon who is this scenario have his mother, sister, aunt, uncle and the Martells plus his throne and a country to rule throw that into hell? Aegon didn’t punish the green supporters when he came into power or start a war. And I doubt Viserys would want revenge, he is only that way because of the stress and fear of what happened to his family that the rebels did to them. The rebels killed those kids. When Tywin killed them and presented them to Robert and that useless stupid fuck stood over their bodies and dehumanized them Robert does get blame. Also when they proclaimed Robert king it sealed their deaths. The rebels killed them. Stop blaming Aerys and Rhaegar for the choices these characters have made. They all had a choice. Jon didn’t have to call the banners when his king demanded Ned and Robert’s head. Ned nor Robert dint have to call their banners either, they could have waited it out. Tywin didn’t have to kill Elia and her children, nor did Robert have to take the throne. They had a choice and right or wrong there are consequences. So yes I’m going to give the rebels their blame in the war.
  10. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    The only reason Viserys and Dany holds a grudge is because they were punished for Aerys and Rhaegar’s mistakes unfairly. They had a horrible life because of the rebels. Don’t act like Viserys and Dany have no reason to hate the men who killed their family, chased them into exile, had them looking over their shoulders for almost two decades, etc... Viserys and Dany were innocent and so were many more that suffered more than they deserved. Robert couldn’t get legitimate children from his wife. His Kingsguard fucked his wife for years and right by him while he was passed out drink, plus fathered her bastard, incestuous children. His treasurer stole from him. He died and the kingdom is fighting a civil war probably the worst one they ever had. Plus the realm have been left unprepared for a horrible ice zombie invasion. All this happened during and because of Robert’s reign. Let’s not put responsible and Robert together. The rebels all have blame in the war. I don’t care what reason they did it, just that they are responsible for the past and present state of Westeros. And yes the rebels deserve blame for TWOT5Ks, every decision they made caused the current war.
  11. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    Robert has nearly the whole realm at his back when the rebellion happened. He could have fought the Lannisters easily and won. And if another war was what needed to happen to punish Tywin and the Lannister’s than yes it should have happened. People don’t get that TWOT5K is because of the rebellion.
  12. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    The only ones who prayed for Aerys reign to end was the rebels. The realm prospered with Aerys as King and that was because he had a Hand like Tywin and only bothered the nobility. The small folk were good with Aerys reign. Yes a real discussion was needed. If you’re going to throw a country into chaos and disposing their 300 year old dynasty and put someone else there than yes a discussion is needed. Having discussions about someone ruling millions of people prevents shit like The War of the Five Kings. I would like someone to sit and talk about the best possible person who should rule over me and mine. And I’m glad someone else agrees that the rebels were stupid. I don’t think the rebels thought that Rhaegar was mad at all. I don’t remember the book having anything like that. Anyways Westeros deserved a better king than what the Rebels gave them. And I’ll die on this hill.
  13. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    I’m sure that surrounded by thousands of men who just declared you king and surrounded by the likes of Jon Arryn(no matter if he was dumb as fuck) and Ned Stark(who we saw immediately think of Cersei’s children when he was about to expose her)someone would have thought to say “oh yeah, there is still a Mad King, the newly crown Prince who is a baby, his sister and their 8 yr old uncle, what do we do with them?” Robert was just crowned king, there was definite talk about Rhaegar’s heirs and the rest of the royal family. Even the Rebels aren’t that dumb. I don’t know why people constantly try to argue the idea that Aegon would have punished the rebels in later years for someone he wouldn’t have remembered. Why would you throw your kingdom in chaos for something or someone you wouldn’t remember? This is a stupid ass argument used to excuse the evil actions of monsters who had no business taking the throne. Rhaegar took a girl and even than a war didn’t start. It was Aerys who started it and Jon Arryn lit it aflame when he declared war and bought war and destruction to the realm along with the rebels. Rhaegar played his part and I will never deny that. But he had a few men at his call while the rebels and king had thousands. It was their fault. The idea that the rebels had no choice but to crown Robert is bullshit and just that. Like I said many monarchs throughout history has been disposed and their heirs and descendants were put on the throne and the world kept spinning. Plus if children need to die for you to have something than maybe you shouldn’t have it in the first place. Like I said having Targ blood is a plus. Robert was named because men saw him kill the better man and they got as wet as the females concerning Robert. If having Targaryen blood was such a requirement than maybe they should have used the fully alive Targaryens like Aegon or Viserys.
  14. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    They were not in no exile. Robert killed Rhaegar and than went to King’s Landing where the King and the crown prince were. Robert and those dumb fucks proclaimed him King when he killed Rhaegar and because he killed him. Using the Targaryen blood claim was just to make the taking of the thrown seem less jarring. Im like a trillion percent positive that no real discussion went into why Robert should have taken the thrown. He was declared because a bunch of dumbasses was impressed that he killed the better man.
  15. The Wolves

    What if elia and children survive

    This argument that Aegon or Viserys would have grown up to take revenge is weak. It’s an excuse used to justify murder of children and the theft of their throne. There is nothing to suggest that Aegon(who would be king)would grow up to start some shit about two men he didn’t know. Some monarchs have been disposed of and their heirs or descendants have been given the throne in real life and I’m sure with the thousands and thousands of years of history in Westeros that it’s happened a few times. Plus Robert is not intelligent enough to think that far into the future. There is nothing about Robert being crowded logical. This man was a drunk, a whore, an idiot and someone who clearly had no desire or ability to rule. I’m also really sure that he never did rule Storm’s End, just let his Maesters do it. The only reason Robert got the throne is because a bunch of dumbasses like himself was impressed that he killed the Prince. Rhaegar has his share of the blame but everyone who fought in that war did. And I don’t care about any of those grown men being victims. Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys, Rhaella, Viserys, Baby Danaerys, and Westeros’ small folk were the real victims. Not a bunch of grown men who had choices and too much power and didn’t care about the realm at all.
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