Arthur Peres

If Renly cannot conceive a heir ( I do belive he is ambition enough to push himself into) he can at least legitimat Edric Storm and name him as his heir... not that it will make him any more popular, but Robert left some bastards that in a dire situation can carry the dinasty ahead. At the very least Renly will need to name someone lord of Dragon Stone or Storm's End once he kill Stannis and Cersei's children. ( Would he kill Shireen?) Renly would be a better king than Joffrey but one just as bad as Stannis. He took Dorne for granted, he didn't leave an heir or named one, he judged Stannis badly thinking at first that Stannis would support him, he openly mocked his family in the small concil, he was letting the mess in the Riverlands growing more and more without moving a finger while he also starved King's Landing, not counting that he would start his reing as a kinslayer.

Game of Thrones - Sansa Clash of Kings - Daenerys Storm os Swords - Daenerys Feat for Crows - Aeron Dance With Dragons - Quentyn

Ramsey got defeated and captured in battle, the tower he took Donela was taken by Rodrik and Manderly held the Hornwood castle. Roose Bolton’s bastard had started it by seizing Lady Hornwood as she returned from the harvest feast, marrying her that very night even though he was young enough to be her son. Then Lord Manderly had taken her castle. To protect the Hornwood holdings from the Boltons, he had written, but Ser Rodrik had been almost as angry with him as with the bastard. “Ser Rodrik might let me go. Maester Luwin never would.” It was a few days after Alebelly’s bath that Ser Rodrik returned to Winterfell with his prisoner, a fleshy young man with fat moist lips and long hair who smelled like a privy, even worse than Alebelly had. “Reek, he’s called,” Hayhead said when Bran asked who it was. “I never heard his true name. He served the Bastard of Bolton and helped him murder Lady Hornwood, they say.” The Bastard himself was dead, Bran learned that evening over supper. Ser Rodrik’s men had caught him on Hornwood land doing something horrible (Bran wasn’t quite sure what, but it seemed to be something you did without your clothes) and shot him down with arrows as he tried to ride away. They came too late for poor Lady Hornwood, though. After their wedding, the Bastard had locked her in a tower and neglected to feed her. Bran had heard men saying that when Ser Rodrik had smashed down the door he found her with her mouth all bloody and her fingers chewed off. After losing all the men they send south with Robb, all the men they send with Rodrik and the loses they took with the fighting in the Hornwood lands, Manderly still is strong enough to have more heavy cavalry than Roose. They have a fleat, and more coin than Bolton.

The deal with Renly was not set, we don't even know how Robb would react when the terms were presented since Renly died earlier. Renly only promised what Robb already had, he refused to march on Kings Landing and he let Tywin and Robb kill each other, he was not a ally, and was not behaving as one, he tried to show Cat a threat before letting her go. Trading Jaime is only worth depending on how much swords Robb can get from him. This is the reason why I asked you how much Jaime's ramson would be able to buy. If Robb can get something like 10k or 20k than I do think is a good trade for him, is pretty much the support of the Vale that he was asking for, if Jaime is only worth something like 300 mercenaries it would be a awful trade. This is why I wanted you to put a price on him, but you made this following argument: "Think of it the way Dany does with her dragons: there are only three in the known world, so a good trade for one of them would be a third of all the ships in the known world. There is only one Jaime Lannister." not sure if you were implying that Jaime is worth 3 dragons, but he even you were shocked when the amount was 6 million in gold...Jaime does have a measurable value, the only question is, how much he is worth. If you presented a small number I would be forced to agree with you and not make the trade.

still seems to be a company... from your own link: Second; what did Robb do with the Tyroshi sellsword who dipped his banners at Riverrun? I don't know what Robb did with him... but =I= forgot all about him, I blush to admit. Now that you've reminded me... I imagine he kept most of them with him when he went west. Having just marched through the westerlands when they were on the other side, they would have had a certain value. I also would expect that he suffered some desertions... these men were not bound to him by oath or ancient loyalty, and there was plenty of plunder to be had...

Can you show me a quote or the reason why you belive that is only one guy? the wiki says it was a company of freeriders.

Again if you read the topic you would know that I don't know it either...I'm not being condescending here, I'm asking it for a while now. "Just to not start another topic How much coin do you think Robb could get from Jaime's Ramson and how much sellswords can he hire with this money?" Now, you tell me how much do you think he is worth and how much would tywin be willing to pay? Don't know either, read the topic... I re-started this topic with this question... "Just to not start another topic How much coin do you think Robb could get from Jaime's Ramson and how much sellswords can he hire with this money?" It won't. You'll pay them in westeros, or they will take the gold and let you hands empty. Probably months, this is why I said Robb took too much time idle in Riverrun after AGoT. or in the city of Maidenpool. Renly has the biggest army ever assembled in Westeros history and Tywin is hiring sellswords, there are at least 2 companys with him. Lindsay lohan in this topic also pointed that Tywin does not think high of sellswords... again read the topic... I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here. "Tywin looked down on the way the Free Cities used gold and sellswords (even as he bought the discount Brave Companions). "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire." Later, when Tyrion was with JonCon on the river, he thinks about how Ilyrio relies too much on his economic influence in war planning: "Might be the cheesemonger has misjudged the situation. You can buy a man with gold, but only blood and steel will keep him true.""

But there are in Essos and they are willing to come fight in Westeros like Vargo and the Tyrosh Tywin hired... Read the topic...again... Talking about money from Jaime's ransom. Stannis does not either, he lost his fleet at blackwater but he still went after them anyway, and Robb at the very least has the Manderly fleet. Yep this is called overplaying your hand, and it usually causes you to go broke... Renly is the one calling Robb's army 40k, with mercenaries hired is easier to present it as a bigger. Is Renly that assumed wrong, Cat would only play along and tell about reinforcements from sellswords. Is it that hard to understand it?

start reading the topic again

I didn't... Renly presented a number, with a mercenary army Cat can play a stronger hand... don't you know what a bluff is?

Again, read the post "Robb has at very least 27k, at the start of the ACoK 10k under Roose, 11k under Edmure and his own 6k, and this is after he "grew weak by the day" so he should have 30k or more at the end of AGoT. Kevan expected him to outnumber the Lannister army and this is not counting Roose's army."

I know, read the first paragraph of the post... "No I pointed a very huge and unreasonable number to show that Jaime has a limit in his valuable, and that Robb cannot ask for something that Tywin wouldn't pay for."

No I pointed a very huge and unreasonable number to show that Jaime has a limit in his valuable, and that Robb cannot ask for something that Tywin wouldn't pay for. To be fair I don't even know how much would Jaime be worthed, that's why I asked you how much you think he could get out of it. Robb has at very least 27k, at the start of the ACoK 10k under Roose, 11k under Edmure and his own 6k, and this is after he "grew weak by the day" so he should have 30k or more at the end of AGoT. Kevan expected him to outnumber the Lannister army and this is not counting Roose's army. Ser Kevan frowned over the map, forehead creasing. “Robb Stark will have Edmure Tully and the lords of the Trident with him now. Their combined power may exceed our own. And with Roose Bolton behind us. . . Tywin, if we remain here, I fear we might be caught between three armies.” Renly thinks that Robb has 40k, With a extra 20k he can present a higher force to him. Catelyn if she is ever send to him could play a stronger hand. Stannis got 20k mercenaries(at minimun) after the deal with the Iron bank, we don't know how much he got to borrow, but Jaime Ramsom would be a fortune, after all in the words of Lefford: “Then we must ransom Ser Jaime, whatever it costs,” Lord Lefford said.

He didn't, true, but with another 20k he would have almost 60k, more than enough to match Renly's numbers and probably with a better quality. This is not how market works, by this logic there is also only one Sansa, so her alone would be enough to match Jaime's value. Jaime is only valuable as much as Tywin is willing to pay for him. If Tywin will not pay a ramson of 6 million dragons then he is not worth that much. Robb could still have achived the victory at Oxcross while making the deal, this is not a cease fire or peace offer, this is a hostage exchange. Robb took to long to act, his enemies by the end of AGOT where in dispair, by the time ACoK starts they are gaining confidence again. Tyrion probably knows Tywin better then ourselfs. The lords with Renly live in that culture and they would know what reaction to expect after Eddard's death. If they both took Jaime for expandable it means something. A hostage is only valuable if they are alive, true, but they only have a effect if you are willing to kill then.

Jaime for Sansa, Harrion and Wyllis + lot of gold is a bad trade? I think you overestimate the value of Jaime. Robb cannot gain peace for Jaime, he cannot force Tywin to yield, Jaime cannot be married off to make a alliance for the Lannisters, he is not a great of commander, Tywin in Tyrions thoughts considered Jaime as good as dead. "That was when he knew. You have given him up for lost, he thought. You bloody bastard, you think Jaime’s good as dead, so I’m all you have left. Tyrion wanted to slap him, to spit in his face, to draw his dagger and cut the heart out of him and see if it was made of old hard gold, the way the smallfolks said. Yet he sat there, silent and still." The lords with Renly also though that Jaime could be executed, if he was so valuable they would know better. “Jaime Lannister is held prisoner at Riverrun.” “Still alive?” Lord Mathis Rowan seemed dismayed. Bemused, Renly said, “It would seem the direwolf is gentler than the lion.” “Gentler than the Lannisters,” murmured Lady Oakheart with a bitter smile, “is drier than the sea.” “I call it weak.” Lord Randyll Tarly had a short, bristly grey beard and a reputation for blunt speech If Robb had pressed this exchange earlier he would be able to get more sellswords, his sisters, free northem hostages, he may not need to send Catelyn to Renly and if he send her she would be much better to negotiate with him, Renly only though about numbers, if Robb and his mercenaries could muster another 20k like Stannis did in Dance, he would have enough to match Renly and pressure a more favorable deal than what was offered to him (not that it matters he would be dead anyway) He would be in much better shape than at the beggining of ACoK where he let is army be spread again, stayed in Riverrun for so long that his enemies though that he was afraid, and he got weaker by the day like Cleos pointed out. “The boy sits idle at Riverrun,” Ser Cleos said. “I think he fears to face your father in the field. His strength grows less each day. The river lords have departed, each to defend his own lands.”