Maegor_the_Cool Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 This does not include deliberate misinterpretations of character and events. Criston Cole and Daemon Targaryen were considered the greatest warriors of the Dance due to their fame. Cregan Stark, Roderick Dustin, and Dalton Greyjoy would’ve dog walked either of them if they ever fought. Lilac & Gooseberries, The Bard of Banefort, Nathan Stark and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Rhaegar and Lyanna are among the worst people of the entire series, assuming that their disappearance was a consensual elopement and love affair. Brynden Rivers is also a monster but for different reasons. I will think much less of GRRM if he tries to justify or vindicate any of those three for what they did. 25 minutes ago, Lord Domeric Bolton said: Criston Cole and Daemon Targaryen were considered the greatest warriors of the Dance due to their fame. Cregan Stark, Roderick Dustin, and Dalton Greyjoy would’ve dog walked either of them if they ever fought. Is that controversial? All three of the men you named are noted as being highly dangerous warriors. Legion88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, James Steller said: All three of the men you named are noted as being highly dangerous warriors. Dalton is also just a boy compared to Cole and Daemon, so there is potential for controversy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) Ramsay wrote the Pink Letter. The real mystery is how much is true. Given what he knew, Bowen Marsh's actions were justifiable. We know better; he doesn't. Sansa will not murder Sweetrobin. The Faceless Men have no intention of making Arya an assassin and never did. Jaime is on a redemption arc. He's already a better person than he used to be. Jon is alive, but seriously injured and comatose. Edited August 12, 2023 by Nevets The Bard of Banefort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nevets said: Ramsay wrote the Pink Letter. The real mystery is how much is true. Again, I don’t think this is controversial. Makes the most sense to me. I would be utterly baffled if anyone other than Ramsay wrote that letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegor_the_Cool Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Dalton is also just a boy compared to Cole and Daemon, so there is potential for controversy. True but he is, I believe, 19-20 during the Dance. And he has been raiding and killing grown men in combat since he was 12. And he wields VS sword. Daemon & Cole are knights. Dalton is a killer’s killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, James Steller said: Again, I don’t think this is controversial. Makes the most sense to me. I would be utterly baffled if anyone other than Ramsay wrote that letter. Stannis and Mance each have their legions of supporters for being the author. I often feel as though I'm swimming again the tide in discussions about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, Nevets said: Stannis and Mance each have their legions of supporters for being the author. I often feel as though I'm swimming again the tide in discussions about it. Stannis writing that letter feels so out of character, plus I don’t see what he’d gain from it that he couldn’t just gain by writing Jon as himself. Mance is devious enough to do it, but I don’t know why he’d do it. Jon is the best hope for his people, and that letter did nothing but destabilize Jon’s position. Plus I don’t see how Mance would have been in a position to write such a letter based on the last time we saw him. Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, Lord Domeric Bolton said: True but he is, I believe, 19-20 during the Dance. 16, actually. 37 minutes ago, Lord Domeric Bolton said: And he has been raiding and killing grown men in combat since he was 12. I won't take corsairs in the early 2nd century AC as a measure for Cole and Daemon's personal combat ability. Besides, 16-year-old Cole defeated Daemon in melee. 38 minutes ago, Lord Domeric Bolton said: And he wields VS sword. So does Daemon. Yeah, I can see why this is a controversial hot take. Roddy the Ruin seems to be more famous as a horseback combatant than a foot-soldier, so no idea how he would perform if taken out of his element and set up against Criston Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Nevets said: Ramsay wrote the Pink Letter. The real mystery is how much is true. Given what he knew, Bowen Marsh's actions were justifiable. We know better; he doesn't. Sansa will not murder Sweetrobin. The Faceless Men have no intention of making Arya an assassin and never did. Jaime is on a redemption arc. He's already a better person than he used to be. Jon is alive, but seriously injured and comatose. - Mel wrote the Pink Letter - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Agreed. - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Jon is not only alive, but is neither injured nor comatose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said: - Mel wrote the Pink Letter - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Agreed. - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Will never be proven one way or the other. - Jon is not only alive, but is neither injured nor comatose. Jon gets stabbed multiple times and isn't injured? How does that work? Don't say glamour. We're in his POV and he's getting stabbed himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nevets said: Jon gets stabbed multiple times and isn't injured? How does that work? Don't say glamour. We're in his POV and he's getting stabbed himself. A warged AND glamored Cregan Karstark. That's who gets stabbed. That's why Mel writes the Pink Letter. To force Jon to take her seriously. It works. During the "offscreen" gap in the chapter, Jon and Tormund and Mel take precautions. That's the significance of Cregan becoming feebleminded with the cold. Feebleminded humans can be warged. That's why Cregan's fingers can't handle the sword too well. They've grown numb with the cold. Once Jon leaves Cregan's body, he returns to his own body, hiding under the crusted and frozen skins in the ice cells. Edited August 12, 2023 by Gilbert Green Nevets, Alester Florent and James Steller 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) Seven Gods, Seven Kingdoms Stannis is an average general Some people have irrational dislike of the Faith of the Seven and Andals (and it is possibly based off them not liking the Catholic Church, in all seriousness I have seen people come up with ridiculous conspiracy theories just like real life ones about the Catholic Church, it was not on this site however) Poisoned Locusts were for Strong Belwas, to rig the games If Aegon hadn't invaded, the Stormlands would have experienced a resurgence under Queen Argella Dragons are boring I find Victarion incredibly amusing and I hope he lives long enough to kill Euron Edited August 12, 2023 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 8 hours ago, James Steller said: Stannis writing that letter feels so out of character, plus I don’t see what he’d gain from it that he couldn’t just gain by writing Jon as himself. Yeah, Stannis would only start writing like that if he had a mental breakdown. fiatlux 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 10 hours ago, James Steller said: Rhaegar and Lyanna are among the worst people of the entire series, assuming that their disappearance was a consensual elopement and love affair. I hardly see how this makes them some of the worst people. The worst people have malicious intentions in the first place 10 hours ago, James Steller said: Brynden Rivers is also a monster but for different reasons. I will think much less of GRRM if he tries to justify or vindicate any of those three for what they did. What makes BR a monster? I ask it especially because you are an avid Stannis fan, and Stannis and BR both have used (or had Mel use) magic and engaged in kinslaying. Lady Isis and Legion88 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said: I ask it especially because you are an avid Stannis fan, and Stannis and BR both have used (or had Mel use) magic and engaged in kinslaying. That's a good point. They both have a very similar 'Ends that may-or-may-not happen justify my morally dubious means' mentality. James, can you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Dragons are boring I must vigorously disagree. Dragons are one of the primary factors that got me into ASOIAF. 3 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said: I hardly see how this makes them some of the worst people. The worst people have malicious intentions in the first place Because they eloped, I guess, breaking the rules. 56 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Seven Gods, Seven Kingdoms They are 7 who are one though. So 7 7 worshipping kingdoms, and 7 kingdoms who are one. 57 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: If Aegon hadn't invaded, the Stormlands would have experienced a resurgence under Queen Argella She seems spirited enough to be a strong ruler but Argilac was a powerful monarch in his own right. I don't think anything short of a stormlands reconquest of the riverlands could amount to a "resurgence" given Argilac could intervene in the war of the 3 sisters against Volantis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) Let's go for predictions: Jon is seriously wounded but survived The Pink Letter was written by Ramsay and everything in it is true except that Stannis survived Dany and Aegon won't meet and King's Landing will burn before she arrives in Westeros Tyrion will meet with Tysha (Sailor's Wife) and they will re-validate their marriage There is a decent chance that Victarion will ride Viserion and eventually kill Euron Edited August 12, 2023 by csuszka1948 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: That's a good point. They both have a very similar 'Ends that may-or-may-not happen justify my morally dubious means' mentality. James, can you explain? Yes, especially because I feel Bloodraven - unlike Stannis - is willing to take full responsibility for his actions and they don't necessarily benefit him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Aegon and his sisters were the good ones, because of the dragon dream about the long night. The dream stuff is almost canonic, but the pasdarans start insulting, you must say that Targaryens were bad, Targaryen rule only brought destruction to Westeros, even though the War of the 5 kings are destroying the Riverlands, the North and the Reach, where Euron is doing his things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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