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Hugorfonics

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    Fortunesmeller Baba

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  1. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    A Surfeit of Rulers, Fire & Blood Can we see any sign of love or compassion or pity in the hearts of Ramsay or Euron?
  2. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    As I said in my last post, I feel little sympathy. These are tailors and armorers who make their money off clothing the unsullied. The innkeepers and wine merchants get paid to make the GM happy. The whole city, hell, region, is corrupt. Slavers Bay is a stain on the world, an evil thats been indoctrinated in Essos since the fall of Valyria. This is not a regular city like Volantis, KL or anything from reality, its a factory that makes slaves. If you live there, you know how your bread gets buttered and at best are nothing but a collaborator. So you think as soon as a slave gets freed he'll start killing women and children? Im pretty sure theyll go after their former overseers and masters, the same ones Dany is fighting. And in most sacks the sacking is done by the invaders, not by the people who live there. If we were slavers? Fuck yea! These people arent rich because of their intellect or hard work, nor even luck or classic capitalism, theyre rich because of their slaves hard work, for thosands of years. Lmao wtf? What system are you supporting? Where im from we (tell ourselves, maybe) try to do our best to combat homelessness specifically with children. Obviously its not fully eradicated but its not flaunted nor the backbone of our economy and way of life. No they didnt, I said this last post too, lifes not peaceful when you murder babies every fucking day. Dany didnt unleashed evil into the world, she curbed it. Slavers Bay lasted for thousands of years, tyrants can only last one lifetime. Wars are even shorter. For the realm? Has Tywin ever said that once? Citation please. Tywin doesnt do things for "justice" or whats "right", words that Dany likes to say when deciding how to rule. And liberating isnt evil, dont you understand that? It is not perfectly legal for the them to rape and torture. In fact its highly illigal, where do come up with this? There are laws in Westeros, the Lords often don't follow them but that doesn't mean they dont exisit. Unlike the slaves.... And slaves have no possibility to raise there station man, smallfolk do. There was a septon for a Hand once, and Steelshanks Walton collected the kingslayers ransom. Theres also the Clegane that was made a lord, Berics knights, any ironborn, etc
  3. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    I dont think all of them And although it says men, Dany wears her floppy ears as well. Perhaps women can wear them too, or maybe just queens, or maybe Astapor and Meereen have different laws regarding the tokar? If only American history was that noble. The south seceded because they felt like Lincoln might try to abolish slavery, not that he said he would. He certainly didnt campaign on it. If anything I doubt he would have ever tried, the fugitive slave act was just passed by the supreme court like 10 years prior, things were not going well for slaves untill the South seceded and attacked Fort Sumter. Lol god bless those stupid bastards. But yea, some went kicking and screaming, mainly right after in Johnson and Grants presidency, just like the GM do. But now we're 150 years past that and the south is no longer kicking and screaming about their lost property, in fact they realize the evil ways of their ancestors. It just takes time
  4. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Danys orders were specifically not to kill women and children. So to say thousands of children and women were killed by her is simply incorrect. Obviously some women (and i guess a few kids) died, along with all freeborn man. Guess how much sympathy I have? Lol (I mean, the kids are sad) These freeborn non slavers still probably owned slaves, if not they were accessories to unsullied training or the general slave factory atmosphere. To put the blame of the GM of Yunkai on Dany is absurd, although I agree that Dany was a shitty ally and perhaps could have done more despite her desperate peace talks. Still, your pulling a 9 degrees of Sansa Stark. Danys not to blame for the actions of her enemies. Furthermore for every unsullied that will no longer be created is a mothers baby thats no longer killed for training. I'll venture to say that Dany will supersede the tens of thousands of lives saved. (And I still take issues with your numbers and would love a citation) I never said that. I think its Sansa lol. Which shows just how ridiculous this train of thought is Dude, theyre slaves. You sound like Penny, you want to wear bells every time you walk while they chop your dick off? What about the guy in Volantis whos job it is, is to clean up that elephants shit. How miserable is that fucking life? Yea, Dany gave them choices. Its like giving a thirsty man water or a hungry man food, its the greatest gift. And suprise suprise, they almost exclusively choose to stay in Meereen, even when the talk of the town is Danys deader then Cleos the freedmen stay in Meereen. Smallfolk life aint great to say the least. But theyre not slaves. They can not be raped on a whim, thats a crime in Westeros, its called rape. When Roose raped Ramsays mother he had to "silence" her husband, a slaveowner has no fear of what their victims may say. Theyre property and its legal, thats not the case in the Sunset. Its also not about them, but their kids. Those are slaves, guaranteed. They don't evem have to be auctioned, you can breed em like cattle. Westeros is different, the poorest of the poor can be anything short of king. From using connections like Dunk of the KG or through brilliance like Davos the hand of the king. The man wont even bow to Wyman in his own court, itd be almost funny how unthinkable that is for a slave if it wasnt so damn depressing Theres a lot of words to describe showing Robert 2 dragonspawns on a Lannister banner. I like the term, fucked up dowary. I do not agree with the term greater good. Targaryens still plagued Roberts Kingdom, though not at all nor did Robert try anything but that one time. And if we're talking about the counter rebellion of Aegon vi specifically, lol good job Tywin, theres no Aegon vi around now, and certainly not one whos story is known to all of Westeros directly because of Tywins order Fighting for your grandsons throne is noble and all that, but unless your fighting nazis or some shit its not fighting evil, its just protecting your grandson. Fuck their culture man. It has not existed peacefully. For every unsullied is a dead baby. Does that sound peacful? Multiply that by the number of unsullied and by every year of the past thousands. Yeah. Dany did not start the violence. Red bricks man, red bricks. Dany has not just threatened to change the ghiscaris way of life, she has freed them of it. If theyre slavers Ashemark not a city its a castle, one that I cant recall Addam complaing about. Robbs bannermen werent great. Robb and Dany need some imagination to make them look like a monster, Tywin just needs a biography No he didn't. Lol, and no one without the last name Frey sees the RW as anything close to heroic. When Tywin sacks a city they still hate him almost 20 years later, when Dany sacks a city they scream Mysha. You can do the math man. And what thousands of westernmen admired or called him the Great Lion of the Rock? More then Sansa?! Why did Ned go south? (That alone pretty much started everything?) Why did Robb continue to fight? Why was the Kingslayer freed? These were all dramatic turning points in Westeros current events, firmly established because of Sansa. At 12 lol
  5. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    So, She, did not slaughter thousands of women and children. Some were killed during the battle until Dany gained full control of the city. I doubt the amount of women and children casualty was in the thousands though as we'd have probably heard about that specifically Significantly No one is forcing the freedmen to follow Dany. In fact shed prefer if they didnt. However if the freedmen leave Danys jurisdiction they would no longer be free, so they dont. (Tyrion reflected that theres always a choice between bondage and freedom, its just itd be free of life, perhaps the freedmen are now rationally choosing that choice) When the freedmen started to get murdered Dany starting policing, when they got sick she did her best to combat the disease. Saving people, that is the major theme in Danys arc. (Its Xaro, with an x. And i don't think he ever met Dany (though Im not even convinced hes real lol)) Dude. No slave is perfectly happy with their position. I mean... Life is sacred, and its yours. Some perhaps are brainwashed like fucking Theon, but theyre far from happy. Furthermore a major theme in asoiaf is thinking of your kids and their children. Meanwhile the child of a slave is a slave. I stress, no slave is happy. No one does No theyre not. Lets take the rape of Ellia as our example. When questioned by his child he expresses no remorse nor guilt for the crime. "The blood was in him" I think was the phrase. Very dismissive and far from self incriminating. When promised to give Dorne the head of Gregor, Tywin declined. The reason behind, was all the Western knights and warriors that the Hand has at disposal, are "lesser beasts" Tywin was fully aware that hes not pure of heart. ... Hes not the rightful king. And rebellion isnt coherently evil man. Slavery and Flaying are. Because her enemies burnt all the land surrounding Meereen and are attempting to put her population into bondage. I don't understand how you can blame Dany when these are directly caused by the slavers. I mean, theyre catapulting plagued corpses into the city! Lol No. Ask the Dornish how they feel about Tywin. Or that western lord who didnt pay his taxes or some shit, so Tywin got some singer to play the rains of castamere in his hall, lol guess who paid his taxes. Not even his sister liked him. Robb didnt pillage or plunder the West. He took the Crag. What is he going to plunder his wife? Oh, you wanna play that game? Sansa Stark. My girls carbon footprint is long. Ned, Robert, Joffrey, Lysa all fell to the existence of Sansa. Not to mention Robbs only obtainable goal in his war, or the upcoming war of 3 queens...
  6. Hugorfonics

    Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

    "How many men did you lose?" Theon asked Red Helm as he dismounted. "Twenty or thirty." The torchlight glittered off the chipped enamel of his visor. His helm and gorget were wrought in the shape of a man's face and shoulders, skinless and bloody, mouth open in a silent howl of anguish. "Ser Rodrik had you five-to-one." "Aye, but he thought us friends. A common mistake. When the old fool gave me his hand, I too k half his arm instead. Then I let him see my face." Is Ramsay talking about Theon?
  7. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    She did not slay thousands of wives and children. Not sure where you got that from. Sack of Merreen? Because in Yunkai and Aspator added up the total death count for the wives and children was 0. In fact hardly anybody died at Yunkai. The Slavers, dude. Lol. Life is better now. Like, fundamentally incomparable, she has given them their freedom. Thats a story by Daxos, it may be true. Though it may not. Either way, Dany has allowed her subjects to give themselves back into slavery. Clearly not many took the deal as Merreen is still filled with the mouths and stomachs of freedmen. Wait, what? She did not unleash the disease, and it was the slavers who brought upon the famine. As for this war and death, sometimes war is the answer, like in the face of evil. Only the slavers from Yunkai and Volantis think that. Most people consider her Mysha. (Or azor ahai reborn) Almost all characters in asoiaf are in some desperate need of redemption, somehow Daenerys is not on that list
  8. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Well you already gave him cunning so whats another attribute? Lol. Ive always liked the bad guy. From Jafar, to Darth Vader and the Joker. They've always fascinated me. Ramsay Bolton is a different breed. Ive never seen a villain like this and cant help but be in awe throughout his pages
  9. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Word. To me, theres little difference between Roose ordering Rams to terrorize the North and Ramsay taking it on his own accord to do it. If anything, I respect the hustle. Ramsay is a self made man who can think for himself, kinda like Petyr. Not many characters are like that
  10. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Idk, I kinda think so. Though who really knows what the deal with Shae was? Its weird that Shae was in his bed, its hard to think she was thrilled to be there In medieval times, with that hight, probably. With that helmet and armor almost definitely. Like Rorge with Sandors armor, he turned from a regular criminal into a war criminal. Though I want to stress this point, Gregors been rewarded every step of the way. His treatment to his brother (and something about his sister) was hushed up and he was soon to be knighted, he became infamous in the sack of KL and was given crucial command during the war of 5. When Tyrion promised justice for Ellia Tywin acted ignorant. Sandor on the other hand, though he has been handsomely rewarded has found, or finding, redemption. (Gravedigger) This may have started after Blackwater or maybe after the RW, maybe even later. Point being, if one Clegane can redeem himself why not the other? Furthermore if major events in current times were absent (like the existence of Tywin) then whos to say the path of redemption wouldn't be shorter? The thing is Ramsay didnt abduct or marry Hornwood because he wanted to (he probably flayed and raped her for that though, though who knows, it could have mainly beem Reek and it could have been to spread fear) he did it to become a Lord of Westeros. He didnt peel the faces off the millers boy for fun either, he did it to "kill Bran and Rickon" Perhaps he tortured/changed Theon "because he wants to" "have his Reek back" or perhaps its so he could take Moat Cailin in less then an hour with no blood spilt. Attacking Hornwoods pretty brave, so is sitting in jail under an alias, befriending the man who conquers the castle then breaking the seige to the castle, (outnumbered 5 to 1) but not before shaking hands with the man who arrested you and then showing your face while chopping off his arm, and then burning the castle. Hes a brave guy The Hound says they all enjoy this type of shit, from the smallfolk to the Ned (Lol reminds me of that song Guilty Conscience) To me, theyre both insane. Bob (Grady) was momentarily while Dave is, uh not. Both men are sick and need help. I agree. As Tyrion said, death is so final
  11. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Is this what you are arguing? Cuz id disagree, as would her staff who told her not to fight Yunaki or Merreen, as it has nothing to do with the IT Slaughtered thousands (is that the number) of great masters. Good riddance. Just because they didn't do Dany harm doesn't mean theyre not harmful to humanity. For thousands of years the evilness of Slavers Bay has been thriving while Boltons have been flaying. Its wrong and needs to stop. And frankly, anyone whos aware of evil and is able to quell it yet doesnt, is nothing but an accessory There naturally living a better life because its theirs. Not the great masters
  12. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    I assumed Theon killed them. Word. I just meant to say that the majority of their crimes are done by their men, just like Tywin. Sure Gregor and Ramsay are notorious rapists where Tywin is only known (or assumed) to rape Shae. But Tywins an old man, not physically strong enough to sin like Gregor or Rams nor brave enough to fight on the front lines. Probably not. Gregor and his men burnt and massacred the Riverlands. If he never went to war he wouldn't have been given the opportunity to pillage on the grand scale that he did In the game you win or die, the unrecognized bastard had to work bravely, brilliantly and hard to get where he is today. And just like Tywin relying on fear, Ramsay utilizes fear as well Do we know for sure that Ramsay takes pleasure in torturing Theon? He certainly appears to but that may be a facade in relations to his fear mongering Dany? She doesnt war for the honor of her house. (like Stark, Greyjoy, Lannister, Baratheon, etc) She wars for the freedom of all people in a hugely populated region. When Tywin a'okd Casatmere did the ends justify the means? Course not. When Dany butchered the elite of Aspator did the ends justify the means? Hell yea!
  13. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    The objects to win. Tywin got murdered by his son and within a few months his kingdoms already evaporating. Look, everyone wants to rule the world. Nothing wrong with that lol. But do the ends justify the means? Was it necessary to kill Aegon? Was it necessary to inflict the Rains of Castamere? Tywin always reminded me of Michael Corleone. He had this "dream" of going legit, not just being the best and actually ruling instead of just being above the law. He was a monster. (Who died alone) Not really, hes got distaste for Hewett because it reminds him if how Euron humiliated Vic. Kerwins ok, not great tho. I mean what's a maester with a knife going to do against sailors of the iron fleet? Like whats Vic up to now? Pirating so he can gather a force to murder and kidnap to get a larger force to kinslay. Mans not batting 1000 lol
  14. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Under orders, probably also under orders, as a youth and was not punished if anything rewarded as he became a knight soon after, honestly i think on accident Hugh should not have been on that field. Gregors a notorious rapist among other things, but with all of his rapes and murders added together it still wouldn't come close to the command he was given during the war of 5. The man commited mass amounts of war crimes (as directed) but not by himself. He may have force fed Vargo himself but he didnt physically burn the riverlands, nor did he physically torture and murder a large amount of their population; That was the army of smallfolk and western peasants that followed a knight into war. Maybe, thats mostly Skinner, still Skinner, those are the dogs but i see what your saying, Hornwood was terrible though maybe some of it was Reek, that was Theon, that was Skinner and Sour Alyn and them. As a child, orders Sandor to murder Mycha, thats the KG. Your right, all of their hands are dirty, but especially Eurons. But the orders they give out are often far more terrible then theyre actual deeds. Joffrey shooting a crossbow into a crowd is inexcusable, but it's not nearly as many people as he wanted to put to the sword for rebelling. Nor is Eurons brief civil war compared to the war he just started nor the Westerosi slavetrade thats funding it. Now can Ramsay the Lord of Winterfell be possibly more awful then what we saw in Dance? We gotta wait for that Most of Ramsays actions are not what I would say "just because he feels like it." He captured Hornwood, Winterfell, Moat Cailin. He started from the bottom, now hes here. Despite his perversions he still fought to get to where he is today. Tywin was born to be where he is today. Tywin was never in a position to commit most of these atrocities, just like Gregor Tywin knows Gregors cruel, and when Tyrion promised his head, Tywin renigged. And honestly, Gregor was born to be Tywins subject, if its not him itd have been some other fucker smashing Aegons head. I dont mean to put it all on Roose, but rather largely influenced by Bolton. To flay is to honor tradition. When Old Nan talked of a Bolton who wore the skin of a Stark, I think skinchanger. With Ramsay naming his bitches Kyra and such, I think skinchanging. Theres reason to the madness of Ramsay, thats one of the scariest things about him Its like the Ghiscari. They live/lived in an evil culture. It cant be easy to come out a moral person. Agreed. Father, mother, great great grandfather, migraines and opioid addictions (being under orders) all of these are bullshit reasons. The only one to fault for ones hideous actions is oneself
  15. Hugorfonics

    Ramsay and Euron

    Idk about Euron, but he probably doesn't get his hands dirty. The others most certainly dont. Gregor uses the Tickler, Joff uses the KG anf Rams uses Skinner Roose gave Reek to Rams as a boy. And despite what the leech lord says, he knew damn well that Rams would be corrupted. Just like he knows Ramsays current entourage is corrupting him, while still reporting to Roose For sure, but Roose taught him a flayedman has no secrets, their ancestors are fucking Boltons and the Dreadfort reminds me of Draculas castle. So even with momma going hard, the ambiance of Bolton remains. No. I refuse to prescribe or even entertain that idea
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