Him of Many Faces

That's why they should have made the maester conspiracy part of the plot.

The show is the show, but we can't ignore some obvious things it spoiled no matter how much we want to keep the books separate from it :/ We know the broad strokes about her ending. She will rule no empire.

Actually let's just leave this be.

Yeah, I believe that child born in the tower is Jon.

I love reading Cersei too and she's my top 3 favorite POV. Her inner monologue is dark comedy gold.

He was born near the end of Robert's rebellion.

You have clearly misunderstood my comment about people needing to move on as me trying to send everyone who disagrees with R+L=J to a concentration camp to reread AGoT or something. Remind you, we are in a thread about theories we hate.

I have never seen this interpretation before. I never considered any of the Cersei-Jaime sex scenes to be rape, but rather some weird fucked up roleplay where Jaime has to "take" Cersei. And if they were intended to be rape then Cersei would surely have thoughts about them in Feast, like she does about Robert raping her, but she doesn't. She actually thinks that sex was only ever good with Jaime after she tries to rape Taena.

My comment about fanfiction was broader and not targeted at you. But yes, I am not humble and not open to every interpretation of this story. We do know what it signifies. Like I've said before, the blue roses are a motif, but yes, you could say that they are symbolically Jon.

Like Aero Hotah, Vic hasn't really done anything to generate a strong reaction from the readers. The most morally ambiguous thing he has done is getting an erection over not understanding what Asha was talking about. He's been a simple warrior, following his violent religion, reaving, fucking, being made fun at.

Ramsay rescued Winterfell from Theon Greyjoy. He took Moat Cailin without northmen casualties. He's quite the brilliant military strategist, yet he gets zero appreciation for his achievements, everyone is too focused on his less charming activities like torturing Theon. Meanwhile Stannis gets lauded as a great commander while his unsavory actions like killing his brother get too easily forgiven. I tried.

So far the thread has been stuck on the Catelyn-Cersei comparison, but the OP's post and linked video are about broader hypocrisies. I struggle to find good examples here because I feel like the fans have been critical of everyone, it would be an easier task to think of characters who deserve more slack.

Not all interpretations are valid and no text has unlimited ways of being interpreted. There comes a point where you are no longer interpreting text but writing fan fiction in your head. Like I said before, I do see L+R=J as a mystery that can be solved, not one of many possibilities to theorize, because a certain POV makes no sense without it. And this is why I do not like the parentage theories regarding Jon. I do not consider any other possibility than Lyanna and Rhaegar valid. I don't really know what else to say about this. I am not open to change my point of view unless someone can rethink the entire blue winter rose motif and symbolism.

Totally agree. Also relevant to this is her reaction to Stannis' letter about her incest: she really does convince herself of things.

Blue winter roses are associated in text with Lyanna, Rhaegar, death, and a newborn child. Yes, that's it, that's the evidence. Also I don't think I should copy paste all of this https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories#Lyanna_Stark_and_Rhaegar_Targaryen here He would and he does - he does lie again, for Sansa, in front of the sept of Baelor. That action mirrors him swallowing his honor and lying about Jon. He is also fiercly against murdering Dany or Cersei's bastards.