Who Was The Best Swordsman of the 5 Kings?

[Eli Stark]

Hes not one of the 5 kings, the War of Five Kings was over when he ascended the throne.

That was clearly sarcastic. Probably doesn't need a fact check.

[Artos Stark]

None of these guys are really known for being great with a sword. We've never seen Stannis, Balon or Renly fight we only know that Stannis and Renly are big men which means nothing in terms of how good they are with a sword. We also know that Robb is better than Joffery. I think it is hard to say honestly because we really don't have enough information.

[Artos Stark]

Now that I think about it, I'd have to go with Renly. In the books he is a knight and fights in tourneys. He likely has more fighting experience (melee's) than Stannis who leads from the rear in battle.

[Lehnaru]

Stannis could single-handedly defeat Robb, Joffrey, Balon, and Renly with ease!

[Jeffrey Baratheon]

I think it's really obvious. And I'm sure everyone will flock here saying the same thing as I do.

Tommen

:thumbsup:

[Direwolf of the Starks]

I don't see how anyone can think Joffrey was a better swordsman than Robb. To be a decent swordsman one must have courage, courage to get in close to fight. Joffrey had no courage whatsoever and would have shit his pants if he came face to face with Robb who is an actual tested warrior not to mention Greywind who is irrelevant at this point because Joffrey is so outmatched. Plus Robb must have improved as a swordsman drastically since the sparring in Winterfell while Joffrey hasn't even been seen fighting since. Robb would completely obliterate Joffrey in a fight even without Greywind

[Erkan12]

I don't see how it is over analysing. Joffrey claims to have won, Robb claims to have won. Robb never claims to have won by any great margin and even when begging Rodrik to let him fight, he never tries to argue he is much better than Joffrey. All he can say is "I can beat him". Notice Jon is there watching proceedings and never even once does he mention to Arya that Robb would beat Joffrey easily. His comment is directed to Joffrey being a horrible, little boy.

I don't understand why are you believe joffrey. Like you don't know joffrey and robb's personality. Robb is not a man like lying about it. He admit that Jaime would kill him. And we believe on that, but when it came to that training, some people want to believe joffrey, who is lying all about butcher's boy case...

And of course he should say ''l can beat him.'' When someone like joffrey say this, i would doubt about it, but if someone like robb, i would not.

Plus we shouldn't judge robb before his wars. He was in growing process, and he developed himself in that battles. After 5 battle survived robb and before wooden sword training robb are very different warriors.

[mrunderhill]

I don't understand why are you believe joffrey. Like you don't know joffrey and robb's personality. Robb is not a man like lying about it. He admit that Jaime would kill him. And we believe on that, but when it came to that training, some people want to believe joffrey, who is lying all about butcher's boy case...

And of course he should say ''l can beat him.'' When someone like joffrey say this, i would doubt about it, but if someone like robb, i would not.

Plus we shouldn't judge robb before his wars. He was in growing process, and he developed himself in that battles. After 5 battle survived robb and before wooden sword training robb are very different warriors.

Even if we take Robb's word for it, which I am happy to do, he does not seem to have won by much. Robb and Joffrey disliked each other and from his words, Jon's lack of opinion and the way Robb gets so angry, it looks like he struggled to win.

I agree he picked up later, grew stronger and became battle hardened, but he was still a 16 year old. As whole 16 year olds are weaker than grown men. It takes once in a generation talents like Jaime or Loras to be considered great at that age. Robb is definitely not anywhere near the talent of Jaime or Loras.

[Erkan12]

Even if we take Robb's word for it, which I am happy to do, he does not seem to have won by much. Robb and Joffrey disliked each other and from his words, Jon's lack of opinion and the way Robb gets so angry, it looks like he struggled to win.

I agree he picked up later, grew stronger and became battle hardened, but he was still a 16 year old. As whole 16 year olds are weaker than grown men. It takes once in a generation talents like Jaime or Loras to be considered great at that age. Robb is definitely not anywhere near the talent of Jaime or Loras.

Of course, his talent on commandership not exclusive warrior (also i should state loras is very overrated imo even his brother garlan much better). But he should much better than coward joffrey. Or he should equally fight with renly or balon we never heard their talent or even which battle they participate and survived.

[mrunderhill]

Of course, his talent on commandership not exclusive warrior (also i should state loras is very overrated imo). But he should much better than coward joffrey. Or he should equally fight with renly or balon we never heard their talent or even which battle they participate and survived.

As things went I am sure Robb at the time of his death was better than Joffrey, since Joffrey was a coward and did not train. Still Joffrey was 13 at the time of his death. Younger than Robb had been when they dueled at Winterfell to put their practice fight into context.

Loras is not overrated in anyway, he is an exceptional swordsman and equally skilled with a mace.

Most 16 year olds cannot fight equally with grown men, let alone very big, strong men like Renly. Balon is viewed as a hero to the Iron Born, this means he had to have participated in many raids and I bet he fought in the Greyjoy rebellion. Renly seems to enjoy a lot of tournaments and is incredibly popular with the commons. Yes he has many other factors going for him, but if he embarrassed himself and lost early every time, the crowd would not be crazy about him.

[Frey Pie]

Renly and Stannis could be even enough. Ill give it to Stannis because, tbh he seems like the type not to fight other than in wars and training, whereas Renly likes the glory and image of tournaments but has never been in a war. Balon is old enough, and one on one im of the opinion that knights and trained Westerosi are better. Robb isnt super talented but is very accomplished on the battlefield and is noted as strong. Joff has natural talent but has none of the other characteristics necessary. So all in all:

Stannis

Renly

Robb

Balon

Joff

Robb and Balon are interchangeable really. I give it to Robb because he is younger, but still strong, has recent battle experience and all in all seems like a hardy warrior. So does Balon but time may have Robbed him of this win (pun no intended at all). In battle also i think Balon and Robb could beat Renly, but overall i would think in a one on one situation Renly should be the better, i just dont think he'd be great in battle

[E-Ro]

Yeah, im going to go with the majority and say Stannis. Im sure robb was not bad for his age but you have to remember at 15 your muscles are not fully developed yet, giving you a disadvantage.

1.Stannis

2,Balon/Renly

3.Balon/Renly

4.Robb

5.Joff

[Rufus Leek]

Joffrey is inept and Balon is too old. Of the other 3, I'd bet on Stannis. Robb is smaller and far less experienced, and Renly lacks Stannis' toughness and determination.

[Northbound]

Robb Stark was absolutely shitting his pants when Jamie was coming after him .

Not to sound like a dick, but who the fuck wouldn't be shitting their pants; when one of, if the best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms is coming after you? That is not a vaild arguement. Jamie would wipe the floor with Robb, Robb knew this. Would Robb have backed down, if it came to blows...no. Robb was anything but a coward.

As for this BS idea, that Joff beat or was holding his own against Robb; that's foolishness. Despite how heated that match was and the general dislike between the two, Robb still knew he was going up against the crowned prince. I would say, that Robb most likely held a little back. Joffery is a c*** and Robb would kill him with ease, in a true fight.

As for the OP question. I think Stannis would win, out of all the options. Robb would be second. Followed by Renly, Balon and Joffery.

[mrunderhill]

Not to sound like a dick, but who the fuck wouldn't be shitting their pants; when one of, if the best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms is coming after you? That is not a vaild arguement. Jamie would wipe the floor with Robb, Robb knew this. Would Robb have backed down, if it came to blows...no. Robb was anything but a coward.

As for this BS idea, that Joff beat or was holding his own against Robb; that's foolishness. Despite how heated that match was and the general dislike between the two, Robb still knew he was going up against the crowned prince. I would say, that Robb most likely held a little back. Joffery is a c*** and Robb would kill him with ease, in a true fight.

As for the OP question. I think Stannis would win, out of all the options. Robb would be second. Followed by Renly, Balon and Joffery.

Please give me any indication that Robb would hold back? The two disliked each other and everyone knew it. This was not the first time they had fought each other either. Ser Rodrik had already reported there was bad feeling between the two. The most telling thing is Jon's silence. In most cases you would think that Jon would make a comment about how Robb would outclass the prince, but all he says is this.

Jon looked down on the scene with a frown. "Joffrey is truly a little shit," he told Arya.

No backing up Robb's assertion just anger at Joffrey's comments.

Robb probably won a close fight, but it's a hollow victory, because Joffrey points out the age gap.

Prince Joffrey looked at him. "Oh, terrified," he said. "You're so much older." Some of the Lannister men laughed.

Later on.

Joffrey shrugged. "Come and see me when you're older, Stark. If you're not too old." There was laughter from the Lannister men.

[Northbound]

Please give me any indication that Robb would hold back? The two disliked each other and everyone knew it. This was not the first time they had fought each other either. Ser Rodrik had already reported there was bad feeling between the two. The most telling thing is Jon's silence. In most cases you would think that Jon would make a comment about how Robb would outclass the prince, but all he says is this.

Jon looked down on the scene with a frown. "Joffrey is truly a little shit," he told Arya.

No backing up Robb's assertion just anger at Joffrey's comments.

Robb probably won a close fight, but it's a hollow victory, because Joffrey points out the age gap.

Prince Joffrey looked at him. "Oh, terrified," he said. "You're so much older." Some of the Lannister men laughed.

Later on.

Joffrey shrugged. "Come and see me when you're older, Stark. If you're not too old." There was laughter from the Lannister men.

I said, that it was a heated match and the two disliked each other. That does not mean, Robb was giving it his all. Can we actually sit here and say that Robb, was not commanded by his father to go easy on Joffery; because he is a member of the Royal Family. No we can't and it's possible, this was the case. As for my logic behind this, simply look at the "The Hand's Tourney"; when Ned told Robert, that it was pointless to enter, because no one would give him a real fight....because he is King. If in fact this was the case and Robb was holding back; that could further be a reason that Robb seemed more pissed during the match. Furthermore, you can get those same reactions and comments from Jon, if he knew that Robb was holding back and Jon was getting upset, because Joffery was being cocky.

[Frey Pie]

Please give me any indication that Robb would hold back? The two disliked each other and everyone knew it. This was not the first time they had fought each other either. Ser Rodrik had already reported there was bad feeling between the two. The most telling thing is Jon's silence. In most cases you would think that Jon would make a comment about how Robb would outclass the prince, but all he says is this.

Jon looked down on the scene with a frown. "Joffrey is truly a little shit," he told Arya.

No backing up Robb's assertion just anger at Joffrey's comments.

Robb probably won a close fight, but it's a hollow victory, because Joffrey points out the age gap.

Prince Joffrey looked at him. "Oh, terrified," he said. "You're so much older." Some of the Lannister men laughed.

Later on.

Joffrey shrugged. "Come and see me when you're older, Stark. If you're not too old." There was laughter from the Lannister men.

Really dont see it at all. Your first post can be and its premise could be used in any number of circumstances e.g. Jon telling Arya to stick him with the pointy end means she has no idea how to fight, and has never seen men training at swordplay. Jon called Joff a little shit because thats his strongest trait. He didnt say untalented little shit, and equally he didnt say talented shit. There is nothing telling about this statement, only really what you have made of it

Your second quote backs up Jon, Joffrey showing us hes a little shit. And also shows that the Lannister guards are toadies, which we already know. Im sure each and everyone of them would have laughed if Bran had put Joff on his back

Your third quote is the most telling of all, but not in your favour. If i wanna play someone and i wanna prove a point and beat them ill play them no matter what. Joff walks away after he challenges Robb. Beacuse theyre not allowed use real swords? Or because hes all bravado and doesnt wanna get beat again? The second one is far more likely in my opinion. If i wanna run 100ms against someone, and they say 200ms instead you can be damn sure i wouldnt walk away. Joff walked away because it suited him to do so

And it also seems Robbs been fighting for much longer against other opponents. Hes noted as sweaty but in good spirits, while Joff is leaning casually. Winner stays on? Or Joff didnt wanna fight more after his last loss? It seems Robbs possibly been fighting the other squires from KL and is keen for more. Joff on the other hand walks away

And yes im almost certain Robb would have taken it easy on Joff for the most part, until anger got the better of him. Jons not allowed train with them because a bastard cant beat the Heir. That speaks volumes. So why doenst Rodrik let them duke it out with steel? Because hes afraid Robb will lose it, not the fight, but cut free and do Joff some harm. It also seems to me to be the reason Joff walked away

So what this proves is that Joff was soundly beaten, but does have some talent and is good for his age. Thats it. He has no other characteristic to make him a good swordman

[Jory Cassel]

Your third quote is the most telling of all, but not in your favour. If i wanna play someone and i wanna prove a point and beat them ill play them no matter what. Joff walks away after he challenges Robb. Beacuse theyre not allowed use real swords? Or because hes all bravado and doesnt wanna get beat again? The second one is far more likely in my opinion. If i wanna run 100ms against someone, and they say 200ms instead you can be damn sure i wouldnt walk away. Joff walked away because it suited him to do so

That is exactly the crucial point. Joffrey demands "real steel" and whe n he gets it (only without the edges) he walks away.

[mrunderhill]

Really dont see it at all. Your first post can be and its premise could be used in any number of circumstances e.g. Jon telling Arya to stick him with the pointy end means she has no idea how to fight, and has never seen men training at swordplay. Jon called Joff a little shit because thats his strongest trait. He didnt say untalented little shit, and equally he didnt say talented shit. There is nothing telling about this statement, only really what you have made of it

Your second quote backs up Jon, Joffrey showing us hes a little shit. And also shows that the Lannister guards are toadies, which we already know. Im sure each and everyone of them would have laughed if Bran had put Joff on his back

Your third quote is the most telling of all, but not in your favour. If i wanna play someone and i wanna prove a point and beat them ill play them no matter what. Joff walks away after he challenges Robb. Beacuse theyre not allowed use real swords? Or because hes all bravado and doesnt wanna get beat again? The second one is far more likely in my opinion. If i wanna run 100ms against someone, and they say 200ms instead you can be damn sure i wouldnt walk away. Joff walked away because it suited him to do so

And it also seems Robbs been fighting for much longer against other opponents. Hes noted as sweaty but in good spirits, while Joff is leaning casually. Winner stays on? Or Joff didnt wanna fight more after his last loss? It seems Robbs possibly been fighting the other squires from KL and is keen for more. Joff on the other hand walks away

And yes im almost certain Robb would have taken it easy on Joff for the most part, until anger got the better of him. Jons not allowed train with them because a bastard cant beat the Heir. That speaks volumes. So why doenst Rodrik let them duke it out with steel? Because hes afraid Robb will lose it, not the fight, but cut free and do Joff some harm. It also seems to me to be the reason Joff walked away

So what this proves is that Joff was soundly beaten, but does have some talent and is good for his age. Thats it. He has no other characteristic to make him a good swordman

You are certain that Robb took it easy, but Bran sure didn't. There is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest Robb was taking it easy. Jon's not allowed to eat with the princes either. Rodrik does not let them duke it out with real steal, because it is a stupid idea. Even season veterans don't practice with real steel, but use tourney swords, because they don't want to maim their friends.

Robb's exact words about the fight.

"You got more swats than you gave, Joff," Robb said. "Are you afraid?"

Robb is trash talking Joffrey here and he STILL has to admit Joffrey got in his fair share of swats. Whoever, won it was clearly not one sided or else Robb would feel no need to make such a comment.

Arya could see Robb bristle. His pride was wounded. He turned on Ser Rodrik. "Let me do it. I can beat him." "Beat him with a tourney blade, then," Ser Rodrik said.

Look at this exchange here. No where is Robb suggesting he could beat Joffrey with ease. He is absolutely furious, no mention about how he is significantly better and Rodrik's reply does not seem to imply he thinks this to be the case.

I agree Robb seems to have won the fight, but not by any great margin. It seemed a close exchange with both boys getting their fair share of blows in.

[Frey Pie]

You are certain that Robb took it easy, but Bran sure didn't. There is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest Robb was taking it easy. Jon's not allowed to eat with the princes either. Rodrik does not let them duke it out with real steal, because it is a stupid idea. Even season veterans don't practice with real steel, but use tourney swords, because they don't want to maim their friends.

Robb's exact words about the fight.

"You got more swats than you gave, Joff," Robb said. "Are you afraid?"

Robb is trash talking Joffrey here and he STILL has to admit Joffrey got in his fair share of swats. Whoever, won it was clearly not one sided or else Robb would feel no need to make such a comment.

Arya could see Robb bristle. His pride was wounded. He turned on Ser Rodrik. "Let me do it. I can beat him." "Beat him with a tourney blade, then," Ser Rodrik said.

Look at this exchange here. No where is Robb suggesting he could beat Joffrey with ease. He is absolutely furious, no mention about how he is significantly better and Rodrik's reply does not seem to imply he thinks this to be the case.

I agree Robb seems to have won the fight, but not by any great margin. It seemed a close exchange with both boys getting their fair share of blows in.

And why does Joff walk away? Rodriks reply tells us nothing but what you said earlier in your post-its retarded to train with live steel