Lost Melnibonean Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I asked this in small Qs but didn't get an answer so I thought I'd see if anyone else has been thinking about this. I've been wondering about the timing of Steffon's mission to the Free Cities and Varys's arrival in KL and I caught this: Cressen recalled that Aerys was not quite so mad when he sent Steffon across the Narrow Sea to search for a suitable match for Rhaegar and Barristan once told Stannis that the rot in Aerys's reign began with Varys. Is that enough to assume that Varys arrived in KL after Steffon's mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steinnis Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Didn't Varys come to Westeros shortly before the Harrenhall conspiracy... And Steffon went across the narrow sea when Stannis was a child. The HH tourney was about ~20 years ago, isnt Stannis about 40? So that wouldn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Steffon died in 278AL and the Defiance of Duskendale happened who years before. So I think tha Aerys was already beginning to go mad but I don't think Varys helped with the paranoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well Barristan isn't exactly the most genius in politic terms so he's just like those common minds who think the Eunuch is to blame for all the harm that has been done.IMO, Aerys was long rotten in the inside and the Defiance of Duskendale only made it implode to a whole new levels of craziness. Varys is not to blame here.Didn't Varys come to Westeros shortly before the Harrenhall conspiracy... And Steffon went across the narrow sea when Stannis was a child. The HH tourney was about ~20 years ago, isnt Stannis about 40? So that wouldn't add up.By then, Aerys already trusted Varys' advices so it's implying that Varys had been serving him for a while at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 well if he did come after steffon's mission then that would make it 278AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Steffon died in 278AL and the Defiance of Duskendale happened who years before. So I think tha Aerys was already beginning to go mad but I don't think Varys helped with the paranoir. 276 AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Varys aways wanted the overthrow of the targs in Westeros. It does not say that in the books but clearly, his contribution to the paranoia of Aerys has to be considered. Varys knew what he was doing. I believe Varys is on team Blackfyre and the downfall of the legit Targ Dynasty of Daeron II was his goal. Aegon VI is his victory one he gets him on the thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 It certainly seems like Varys was right about a conspiracy given Rhaegar's great council comment, and he was certainly right that they shouldn't have opened the gates for Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooghar Targaryen Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/91248-detailed-timeline-pre-a-game-of-thrones/Tourney at Lannisport (276 AL)-Cersei Lannnister told she would be betrothed to Rhaegar after the tourney at Lannisport. She is happy and visits Maggy the Frog (276 AL)-Maggy tells Cersei, A younger, more beautiful queen will be Cersei's undoing and Cersei will outlast her children and die by the hands of the valonqar (276 AL)-Cersei pushes Melara Hetherspoon down a well (276 AL)-Tywin Lannister holds The Tourney at Lannisport as a pretext for inviting King Aerys and hoping he will accept Cersei in marriage for Rhaegar (276 AL)-Rhaegar Targaryen is Knighted (276 AL)-King Aerys refuses Tywin's marriage proposal, he says Targaryens do not wed servants, Tywin holds grudge (276 AL)-Aerys sends Steffon Baratheon to search across the Narrow Sea for a wife worthy of Rhaegar (276 AL)Defiance at Duskendale (276 or 277 AL)-Lord Denys Darklyn of Duskendale refuses to pay taxes, King Aerys and small host go to Duskendale to personally enforce punishment (276 or 277 AL)-King Aerys captured and held captive (276 or 277 AL)-Tywin marches large army down to Duskendale and surrounds city (276 or 277 AL)-Tywin was unable to march through the city, becuase Lord Darklyn would kill Aerys at the first sign of attack from Tywin (276 or 277 AL)-Barriston Selmy sneaks into Duskendale and rescues the king (276 or 277 AL)-King Aerys orders his army to kill every Darklyn and also House Hollard who sided with Darklyns (276 or 277 AL)-Aerys becomes suspicious of everyone (He was held captive for half a year)-Aerys appoints Varys as Master of Whispers, believing that only a foreigner with no competing loyalties in Westeros could be trusted to alert him of potential threats.Pre Tourney of Harrenhal-Tywin takes Cersei to court, still hoping to marry her to Rhaegar or maybe set a future marriage for Viserys and Cersie (278 AL)-----Renly Baratheon born, son to Steffon Baratheon and Cassandra Estermont (278 AL)-Steffon Baratheon and his wife drown (Cassandra Estermont) drown in Shipbreaker Bay, fail on finding Rhaegar a suitable wife (278 AL)-Rhaegar Targaryen marries Elia martell (278 AL)-----Rhaenys Targaryen born, daughter of Rhaegar and Elia (279 maybe 280 AL?)-Kingsguard defeat Kingswood Brotherhood, Jamie Lannister is raised to knight (280 AL)-Lyanna Stark betrothed to Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark betrothed to Catelyn Tully, Jamie Lannister planned to be betrothed to Lysa Tully (SOUTHRON AMBITIONS)-Oswell Whent of the Kingsguard goes and talks to his brother Lord of Harrenhal... Tourney of Harrenhal is planned (280 AL)-Cersie still loves Jaime and hears Jaime might be married to Lysa Tully, so she suggests to Aerys that Jaime would be a good choice for Kingsguard (280 AL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Here are some important, unquestioned facts to help: In early 276 Tywin proposed to wed Cersei to Rhaegar during a Tourney for King Aerys at Casterly Rock triggering the rift between Aerys & his Hand which had been simmering as Aerys grew ever more resentful of Tywin's reknown.The Defiance of Duskendale occurred later that year. Tywin was off brooding so Aerys lead his KG and a small force to Duskendale & got captured, humiliated & possibly tortured. Barristan rescued the king just before Tywin intended to storm the town, which probably would have resulted in Aerys' s execution. The event left Aerys paranoid & helped push the king into madness as he lost trust in his queen, heir & Hand. Aerys sent Steffon to the Free Cities to seek a more suitable bride. (Unfortunately we have to speculate as to the criteria.) Steffon died when his ship sank upon his return in 278 and Aerys betrothed Rhaegar to Elia. Tywin brought Cersei to court after Duskendale still hoping to wed Cersei to Rhaegar but Rhaegar was wed to Elia. We know that Aerys heard of Varys after Duskendale and before the Tourney at Harrenhal, which was in 281, leaving a four-year window for Varys' s arrival in KL. Keep in mind everybody past 50 is described as old or assigned an approximate age. Neither Varys nor Illyrio are described as such and Illyrio's chest hair is yellow suggesting that both men are under 50. And both men had distinguished themselves by the time Varys came to KL in 277-280. If both men were in their late 40s in 300 each would have been in their mid 20s in 277. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ti-Guy Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Varys sure has is own agenda but I'm pretty sure none of us is really getting his real motives. If he was a Backfire pretender like many seems to believe I just don't understant why he would send Barristan and Tyrion to Danny. He's even sending Aegon and the GC to her. There are too many questions marks around his action to clearly guess what he's doing and I guess we'll learn a lot more about that in the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 <snip>I'm 99% sure that Tywin brought Cersei to court BEFORE Aerys sent Steffon across the Narrow Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Varys sure has is own agenda but I'm pretty sure none of us is really getting his real motives. If he was a Backfire pretender like many seems to believe I just don't understant why he would send Barristan and Tyrion to Danny. He's even sending Aegon and the GC to her. There are too many questions marks around his action to clearly guess what he's doing and I guess we'll learn a lot more about that in the next book.I think their original plan was for (F)Aegon to marry Dany so the two houses (Targ and Blackfyre) would unite together, and the Blackfyres would finally sit the Throne. But their plans were screwed up when Dany didn't come to Volantis and (F)Aegon decided to start his conquest without Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Varys sure has is own agenda but I'm pretty sure none of us is really getting his real motives. If he was a Backfire pretender like many seems to believe I just don't understant why he would send Barristan and Tyrion to Danny. He's even sending Aegon and the GC to her. There are too many questions marks around his action to clearly guess what he's doing and I guess we'll learn a lot more about that in the next book.Dragons probably changed the plans a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 I think their original plan was for (F)Aegon to marry Dany so the two houses (Targ and Blackfyre) would unite together, and the Blackfyres would finally sit the Throne. But their plans were screwed up when Dany didn't come to Volantis and (F)Aegon decided to start his conquest without Dany.Nah that was plan #2-3:"Which plan? ... The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be his sister, a pliable young child queenwho was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well. I have had enough of Illyrio’s plans. Robert Baratheon won the Iron Throne without the benefit of dragons. We can do the same." --Tristan Rivers to the assembled Captains of the GC before swearing their swords to Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooghar Targaryen Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 From the App: At the Tourney of Lannisport "There is no betrothal announcement made on the final evening because King Aerys refuses to wed his heir to the daughter of a man he considers no more than his servant --- marking one of the first incidents where Aerys's distrust of Tywin begins to put a strain on their relationship. Eventually, Tywin takes Cersei to court, hoping to change the king's mind, but the Princess of Dorne has already arranged the betrothal of Princess Elia to Rhaegar."Princess Elia was betrothed to Rhaegar after Steffon had died. So Cersei was not at court before Stefon was sent across the Narrow Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 From the App: At the Tourney of Lannisport "There is no betrothal announcement made on the final evening because King Aerys refuses to wed his heir to the daughter of a man he considers no more than his servant --- marking one of the first incidents where Aerys's distrust of Tywin begins to put a strain on their relationship. Eventually, Tywin takes Cersei to court, hoping to change the king's mind, but the Princess of Dorne has already arranged the betrothal of Princess Elia to Rhaegar."Princess Elia was betrothed to Rhaegar after Steffon had died. So Cersei was not at court before Stefon was sent across the Narrow Sea. You're awesome. (I don't have app.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any evidence in the text or the app to suggest that Varys was in the 7K when any of the following events took place?Steffon sent to Free CitiesSteffon's shipwreakCersei's arrival at court in KLRhaegar's (first) weddingGregor's burning of SandorThe Tourney at Storm's End in memory of Steffon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooghar Targaryen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any evidence in the text or the app to suggest that Varys was in the 7K when any of the following events took place?Steffon sent to Free CitiesSteffon's shipwreakCersei's arrival at court in KLRhaegar's (first) weddingGregor's burning of SandorThe Tourney at Storm's End in memory of SteffonNope, not from the app. Just that he came to King's Landing after the Defiance at Duskendale when Aerys became suspicious of everyone, and then the next Varys event is he told Aerys that Rhaegar might be planning something at the Tourney of Harrenhal. Not much info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Roast Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Nope, not from the app. Just that he came to King's Landing after the Defiance at Duskendale when Aerys became suspicious of everyone, and then the next Varys event is he told Aerys that Rhaegar might be planning something at the Tourney of Harrenhal. Not much infoThat sounds right. Varys came after Duskendale when Aerys no longer trusted Tywin. His Court was filled with toadies loyal to Tywin like Pycelle. He was was right not to trust and seek somebody to tell him what plans his Hand and others were developing. Duskendale proved that there were plots against him. He knew Tywin was pissed that he refused Cersi and he knew what Tywin was capable of when it came to those he felt needed a strict lesson. Aerys may have decended into madness, but he came to some that paranoia honestly.No wonder he recruited Varys. And no wonder Varys was able to use the conflicts, plots and factions orbiting the Iron Throne to serve his own ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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