Another Question About the Others

[Jalapenohitchhiker]

GRRM has said in multiple interviews that he doesn't believe in the true evil vs. true good that is present in most fantasy novels, and instead goes with the notion that the true good vs. evil is within the individual. My question is how the Others come into play here. We know very little about them so far, but at the moment they seem to represent the "true evil" that Martin claims he doesn't abide by. Is this a flaw in his ideals or is there possibly a more humane (for lack of a better word) side to the Others?

[Don Roberto]

I think George was talking about the human nature - as in, no human is entirely good, nor entirely bad, and even the notions of good and bad are volatile.

That wouldn't apply to monsters, at a first glance. But when you look closely at the attack on Ser Waymar Royce, they seemed to be playing with him, and Will mentions them making mocking remarks afterwards. That seems quite a human-like behaviour. So maybe the Others aren't really monsters, but something else. If so, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't be bound to George's remarks on good and evil.

[Carr896]

I think that the Others may not have human characteristics, but that they have the characteristics of beasts. As in, they seem to have some idea of organization when attacking their prey like they did at The Fist of the First Men. I believe that they are acting in a territorial sense, and that they are only looking to reclaim the land that they lost after the Long Night. Or maybe their just pure evil creatures. I sure hope we find out.

[mindchap]

Also we have only seen less than a dozen others, to judge them all as being the same would be like basing an opinion of mankind on Gregor and his lackeys. I think there is a lot more to them than we know yet, there could be different types of Others just like there are different kinds of people.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

It's possible that they aren't evil and they have an agenda we're not privy to. They would have no problem killing humans to further their agenda or for self preservation. To them we are the "Others".

[Sir Tan Lee]

I believe Coldhands is an Other. This would make perfect sense and not only for physical reasons.

What better way for GRRM to demonstrate that the Others aren't totally evil by making Coldhands an Other. It would establish that cliches don't apply; exactly like what he did with Eddard.

[mindchap]

It's possible that they aren't evil and they have an agenda we're not privy to. They would have no problem killing humans to further their agenda or for self preservation. To them we are the "Others".

Well said.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Also we have only seen less than a dozen others, to judge them all as being the same would be like basing an opinion of mankind on Gregor and his lackeys. I think there is a lot more to them than we know yet, there could be different types of Others just like there are different kinds of people.

:agree:

I think they I are either COTF who didn't agree to the pact and evolved seperately then the other COFT forest through natural or magical means OR that they are a different species entirely and maybe the COTF came from the land to the west of westeros and the others used to rule westeros before them but they got conquered

[mindchap]

:agree:

I think they I are either COTF who didn't agree to the pact and evolved seperately then the other COFT forest through natural or magical means OR that they are a different species entirely and maybe the COTF came from the land to the west of westeros and the others used to rule westeros before them but they got conquered

I actually toyed with idea at one time that they were seers who's Weirwoods were destroyed. Just way too much time to think between novels. :)

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I actually toyed with idea at one time that they were seers who's Weirwoods were destroyed. Just way too much time to think between novels. :)

I was saying the COTF conquered the others

[Cyvasse Khal]

I'm sure there was an interview where GRRM said not to think of The Others as evil per se. There is nothing to go on so far that would really indicate them being truly evil because as was said we have no idea what their motivations are yet. We know they have killed humans, but thousands of humans were killed by other humans throughout the series, mostly in war. Protecting their territory or trying to reclaim land that was once theirs (if that is their agenda, and atm that is where my mindset is at with them) does not necessarily point to evil for me.

On a sidenote: Ramsay Bolton, the closest thing to pure evil in the series? Does he have any good qualities about him?

[mindchap]

I was saying the COTF conquered the others

I know, I was just mentioning that the things that go through my head sometimes are a lot more farfetched than that, the only problem I could see with that is the fact that they don't show up until after the war between the CotF and the FM. That was originally why I started wondering if they could have been seers, but there was not another Long Night after the Andal invasion and they were cutting down the trees too. Unless something did happen in the North that we just don't know about yet.

[binga]

I think George has said the Others are a different sort of life. I think they have their own morality and logic. Perhaps they don't value the same things we do. Warm blooded creatures are a threat to them. It's possible that the Others are very ancient and the heating of the planet due to natural causes forced them to retreat into the North and go into hibernation. When they were waken up the world was full of warm creatures and they don't understand what is going on. Imagine what your reaction would be if you awoke one day and aliens had taken over the earth, what would you want to do?

[Cyvasse Khal]

I think George has said the Others are a different sort of life. I think they have their own morality and logic. Perhaps they don't value the same things we do. Warm blooded creatures are a threat to them. It's possible that the Others are very ancient and the heating of the planet due to natural causes forced them to retreat into the North and go into hibernation. When they were waken up the world was full of warm creatures and they don't understand what is going on. Imagine what your reaction would be if you awoke one day and aliens had taken over the earth, what would you want to do?

I really like the thought of The Others attacking because every time there is a Long Night they awaken and are scared because their world keeps changing and is inhabited by all these unfamiliar creatures.

[Black Mike Secret]

Didn't Ser George RR Martin say that The Others really don't have a "culture" we know it? I remember reading that somewhere.

[Mad Monkey]

I've always theorized that the Others are not evil and would in fact be appalled if they met Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane and learned that people who behaved that way were not only allowed to walk around freely but were accorded high honors by society.

("...so, he made the woman eat her own fingers? And these Andals respond by making him a high lord over their people? Ah, annihilating them all would be a blessing!")

[MasterJack]

They are far from evil, they are just antagonists. They have a purpose we dont know thats all. The first time we saw them they even let a fair chance to the poor ranger to fight 1vs1. They never tortured anyone as far as we know. They are an army and they "need" to go past the Wall for something unknown to us.

[KingInTheCave]

I think the Others are evil monsters in the most cliche way imaginable.

[Thorion2]

Given the limited interactions with the Others, it can't be proven either way. But my thought are:

* Given the unusually long seasons and non-uniform lengths of Summer and Winter. The Others are just battling for expansion of their Winterlands. The more successful they are, the longer the Winter. This makes it a subjective interpretation on good and evil. For instance, to us, the rancher sitting on a fence eating a hamburger for lunch is good. To the cow watching him eat the hamburger, he is evil.

[Jalapenohitchhiker]

Hmmm, most seem to be of the opinion that the Others may not actually be evil and are simply territorial. Another aspect I find interesting is Craster and his sacrificing of his males to the Others. I don't recall any other wildlings doing this but it seems to point to the idea that the Others have the ability to negotiate with humans, and most likely the children of the forest as well.

I believe Coldhands is an Other. This would make perfect sense and not only for physical reasons.

What better way for GRRM to demonstrate that the Others aren't totally evil by making Coldhands an Other. It would establish that cliches don't apply; exactly like what he did with Eddard.

I have touched on this notion too. What really got me was the fact that he wouldn't go near the fire.