Gerold Hightower

[BBBaratheon]

Is there much known about him? I am assuming he gets his name from being built like and having the strength of a bull and wearing the white cloak of the Kingsguard. I imagine he must have been formidable to be the commander of Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne but there doesn't seem to be much information on him.

[N/A]

no not much about him, but since you brought up the fact, i don't think it's common or has happened before to demote a LC to being a normal KG again,an i right in this assumption ?

[Rahgh Neqaj]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gerold_Hightower

[PrimeRhaegar]

he was a badass MoFo

[Lost Melnibonean]

Didn't Aerys send Gerold to find Rhaegar after Robert's Rebellion gained traction? Didn't he find Rhaegar at the TOJ with Arthur, Oswell, Lyanna and a little bun in her oven? Didn't Rhaegar command Gerold to remain with his two brothers of the KG to protect Lyanna and the bun? Doesn't this confirm that Rhaegar married Lyanna, the bun is Jon & Jon is the heir of Aegon the Conqueror?

[Aderyn the Sly]

Didn't Aerys send Gerold to find Rhaegar after Robert's Rebellion gained traction? Didn't he find Rhaegar at the TOJ with Arthur, Oswell, Lyanna and a little bun in her oven? Didn't Rhaegar command Gerold to remain with his two brothers of the KG to protect Lyanna and the bun? Doesn't this confirm that Rhaegar married Lyanna, the bun is Jon & Jon is the heir of Aegon the Conqueror?

Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

Although it has always struck me as odd the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would remain at the ToJ when Jamie and Jonothor Darry were the only KG left at King's Landing to guard Aerys, I don't think this is enough to 'confirm' anything on its own.

Also, he is the Great-uncle of Mace Tyrell's wife, which adds more insight as to why the Tyrells and Hightowers were all faithful until after the Trident.

[Ampelisca]

Was he the nephew or son of the Hightower that got lynched after locking down the port when the greyscale hit?

[jenerationx]

Didn't Aerys send Gerold to find Rhaegar after Robert's Rebellion gained traction? Didn't he find Rhaegar at the TOJ with Arthur, Oswell, Lyanna and a little bun in her oven? Didn't Rhaegar command Gerold to remain with his two brothers of the KG to protect Lyanna and the bun? Doesn't this confirm that Rhaegar married Lyanna, the bun is Jon & Jon is the heir of Aegon the Conqueror?

I'm of the opinion that it's pretty strong evidence, but it is not "confirmation" as of yet...

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I don't think he was much of a knight, like Selmy himself. They watched and allowed horrible things to happen, because it was their 'duty'.

[MRHD]

I think an important point is that even if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, that would only make Jon legitimate to those who chose to accept that as a valid marriage. So the likes of the KG wouldn't question their prince's actions in taking a second wife, and those who would have something to gain from Jon being a trueborn Targ would hold him up as legitimate, too. Meanwhile, those who want someone else on the throne would argue that polygamy is no longer a valid act and that Jon is baseborn. Whether he is ultimately seen as legitimate or not would be one of those questions that would likey come down to who has the bigger army. Assuming the marriage of R&L ever becomes a significant subject to Westeros, of course.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think an important point is that even if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, that would only make Jon legitimate to those who chose to accept that as a valid marriage. So the likes of the KG wouldn't question their prince's actions in taking a second wife, and those who would have something to gain from Jon being a trueborn Targ would hold him up as legitimate, too. Meanwhile, those who want someone else on the throne would argue that polygamy is no longer a valid act and that Jon is baseborn. Whether he is ultimately seen as legitimate or not would be one of those questions that would likey come down to who has the bigger army. Assuming the marriage of R&L ever becomes a significant subject to Westeros, of course.

Absolutely!

[Rahgh Neqaj]

[...]

Although it has always struck me as odd the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would remain at the ToJ when Jamie and Jonothor Darry were the only KG left at King's Landing to guard Aerys, I don't think this is enough to 'confirm' anything on its own.

[...]

Aerys sent Hightower to find Prince Rhaegar who already had the current LC Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent with him. No doubt, Aerys expected all four of them to go to war together with the 3 KG knights protecting the heir to the throne. Either he wanted as many KG knights as possible at Rhaegar's side¹ or that he gave commands for one or two of them to be sent back to KL and those commands were ignored². Also, it would be foolish to equate the KG with simple body guards - they were body guards but also battle commanders and expected to lead troops. As such it makes sense to keep the young Jaime, who's an excellent fighter, in KL as body guard whereas the more experienced other KG knights reassemble the scattered troops and lead them into the decisive battle.

¹) With Jaime remaining in KL, 6 are left to fight with Rhaegar: 3 are with him at ToJ, Selmy and Darry are collecting the scattered forces of Jon Con and Martell took command of the Dornish soldiers marching up from the south but with delays and possible ambushes it would have well been possible that not all arrive at the trident in time or die before the trident.

²) The most likely scenario here is that he sent Rhaegar written instructions which the KG knights did not know. Rhaegar reads the commands to the KG but omits the part of "X and Y go back to KL" and instead says "X, Y and Z guard L".

[Kuther2000]

I think an important point is that even if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, that would only make Jon legitimate to those who chose to accept that as a valid marriage. So the likes of the KG wouldn't question their prince's actions in taking a second wife, and those who would have something to gain from Jon being a trueborn Targ would hold him up as legitimate, too. Meanwhile, those who want someone else on the throne would argue that polygamy is no longer a valid act and that Jon is baseborn. Whether he is ultimately seen as legitimate or not would be one of those questions that would likey come down to who has the bigger army. Assuming the marriage of R&L ever becomes a significant subject to Westeros, of course.

I completely agree. I have tried to say this before, but your words are much more precise than mine were.

Just because Rhaegar would say that it is valid doesn't mean anything until put to the test. No one knows if the marriage have been truly gotten away with because all three participants died before it could be tested. Aerys could say that it was never valid because Rhaegar didn't have his permission and he is already married.

It is also possible that the nobles would allow Rhaegar to maintain a polite fiction with his marriage and the legitimacy of their offspring until he died and people will come forth denouncing it. If he was smart, he would have probably took even more precautions once he became king that would mean legitimizing them again by king's order.

[Aderyn the Sly]

Aerys sent Hightower to find Prince Rhaegar who already had the current LC Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent with him. No doubt, Aerys expected all four of them to go to war together with the 3 KG knights protecting the heir to the throne. Either he wanted as many KG knights as possible at Rhaegar's side¹ or that he gave commands for one or two of them to be sent back to KL and those commands were ignored². Also, it would be foolish to equate the KG with simple body guards - they were body guards but also battle commanders and expected to lead troops. As such it makes sense to keep the young Jaime, who's an excellent fighter, in KL as body guard whereas the more experienced other KG knights reassemble the scattered troops and lead them into the decisive battle.

¹) With Jaime remaining in KL, 6 are left to fight with Rhaegar: 3 are with him at ToJ, Selmy and Darry are collecting the scattered forces of Jon Con and Martell took command of the Dornish soldiers marching up from the south but with delays and possible ambushes it would have well been possible that not all arrive at the trident in time or die before the trident.

²) The most likely scenario here is that he sent Rhaegar written instructions which the KG knights did not know. Rhaegar reads the commands to the KG but omits the part of "X and Y go back to KL" and instead says "X, Y and Z guard L".

I don't remeber anywhere saying that Arthur Dayne was the LC...

And I see what you're saying, but Rhaegar went first to King's Landing and that's when he took Darry with him to the battle of the Trident. Why wouldn't Aerys question where the remaining three kingsguard were since they weren't with him? You would think that being as crazy as he is at this point he would want another Kingsguard around besides Jaime whose loyality is in question. Selmy is leading the remanants of the battle of the bells, Martell is rallying the Dornishmen, Darry is going off with Rhaegar, and he doesn't want the other three to do something? Always sounded fishy. I think there is more than what we already know or suspect and GRRM has something else he isn't telling us.

[jenerationx]

I don't remeber anywhere saying that Arthur Dayne was the LC...

And I see what you're saying, but Rhaegar went first to King's Landing and that's when he took Darry with him to the battle of the Trident. Why wouldn't Aerys question where the remaining three kingsguard were since they weren't with him? You would think that being as crazy as he is at this point he would want another Kingsguard around besides Jaime whose loyality is in question. Selmy is leading the remanants of the battle of the bells, Martell is rallying the Dornishmen, Darry is going off with Rhaegar, and he doesn't want the other three to do something? Always sounded fishy. I think there is more than what we already know or suspect and GRRM has something else he isn't telling us.

Gerold Hightower was the commander of the KG at the time, not Arthur Dayne.

Aerys may very well have pointed that out to Rhaegar, and Rhaegar was like, welp they're not here, and we gotta go, so... I don't even think he necessarily felt like he needed them. He didn't keep Jaime around for protection; he kept Jaime around to use against Jaime's father. He felt it was the best way to keep Tywin from betraying him (didn't work, clearly).

[Lazy Lion]

I think an important point is that even if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, that would only make Jon legitimate to those who chose to accept that as a valid marriage.

Moreover, it would only make Jon legitimate to those who knew about it. Rhaegar & Lyanna getting married is certainly not common knowledge in Westeros.

[The Taxman]

Arthur Dayne

Gerold Hightower

Gerold + Dayne = Darkstar

[BBBaratheon]

So I am guessing the "White Bull" was a big brick like Gregor but honorable and on the Kingsguard for his strength.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

I don't remeber anywhere saying that Arthur Dayne was the LC...

And I see what you're saying, but Rhaegar went first to King's Landing and that's when he took Darry with him to the battle of the Trident. Why wouldn't Aerys question where the remaining three kingsguard were since they weren't with him? You would think that being as crazy as he is at this point he would want another Kingsguard around besides Jaime whose loyality is in question. Selmy is leading the remanants of the battle of the bells, Martell is rallying the Dornishmen, Darry is going off with Rhaegar, and he doesn't want the other three to do something? Always sounded fishy. I think there is more than what we already know or suspect and GRRM has something else he isn't telling us.

The "Arthur Dayne was LC" thing might be a mistake. I looked at the wiki entry of Gerold Hightower (posted link above) where it says that

[...]Due to his wound, Gerold ceded command to Ser Arthur Dayne when the Kingsguard campaigned against the Brotherhood in the Kingswood.[...]

I did understand that as a permanent transfer of power but might have been mistaken. (I couldn't find any text reference for Hightower cedeing command to Dayne in the books when I went looking for it yesterday.)

Which Darry are you talking about? The wiki page for Ser Jonothor Darry of the KG has the following to say:

After the Battle of the Bells, Ser Jonothor and Ser Barristan Selmy were sent to rally the remnants of the Hand's (Lord Jon Connington) men.^[1]

and references ASoS 37 as source. The same statement can be found in the wiki for the Battle of the Trident. Haven't got the books around right now so can't check but it seems solid.

Can't find anything about Rhaegar going back to KL before the Battle of the Trident in the wiki but the wiki might just have omitted details such as this and without the books I can't check there. Anyway, even if he went back to KL he would be under a lot of time pressure to get to the Trident or risk missing the battle. Not sure whether he would have spoken with his father under those circumstances - it wasn't the merriest of relationships after all, Rhaegar would probably have known how to avoid his father if he wanted to and he might not have valued Aerys' advice and opinion on matters of warfare, rebellion and diplomacy too highly after Duskendale.

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ETA: Hadn't Aerys just exiled one of Rhaegar's best friends, Jon Connington? Guess Rhaegar wasn't happy about that either.

[King of Winters]

Can't find anything about Rhaegar going back to KL before the Battle of the Trident in the wiki but the wiki might just have omitted details such as this and without the books I can't check there. Anyway, even if he went back to KL he would be under a lot of time pressure to get to the Trident or risk missing the battle. Not sure whether he would have spoken with his father under those circumstances - it wasn't the merriest of relationships after all, Rhaegar would probably have known how to avoid his father if he wanted to and he might not have valued Aerys' advice and opinion on matters of warfare, rebellion and diplomacy too highly after Duskendale.

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ETA: Hadn't Aerys just exiled one of Rhaegar's best friends, Jon Connington? Guess Rhaegar wasn't happy about that either.

Rhaegar did go back to KL before The Trident as Jaime remembers his last moments with Rhaegar in the Red Keep, before Rhaegar went with the army. It's the part where Rhaegar says he has some changes to make when he returns.

And yes this would have been after Aerys exiled JonConn.