Norths Troops

[Lads]

My Question is how many men do they have left 20.000 went south with robb and only boltons returned.

Are they even a threat for the south ?

[Groat]

I think they have around 20-25K left, but when Free Northman gets here, he'll let you know.

[Lads]

Wut that many

lol who ? :D

[armidil0]

Is the search bar broken again?

[Lads]

sry for asking...

[The Flaming Stag]

Errrrrrr, I believe Robb entered the war with a total of men somewhere between 18'000 and 20'000 before being boosted by an additional 4'000 from the Freys and an unspecified total from the combined forces of the Riverlands. Yet Robb lost a lot of men during the War, apart from usual casualties: he lost many loyal men at Duskendale, the Green Fork and the Ruby Ford, not to mention the betrayal of Frey and Bolton forces and the loss of the Karstarks. Then of course, we have the brutal murder of many soldiers and lords at the Twins, and the taking of parts of the North by the Ironmen.

Therefore, I cannot believe that the North still has 20-25k troops still at thier disposal..

[Bright Blue Eyes]

About 35,000, give or take. The North entered the war with 50,000-60,000, of which ~20,000 were lost.

Robb had to run southward to save Ned, Sansa, Arya, Hoster and Edmure Tully. He grabbed what he could in as short a time as possible and marched. The North has the disadvantage of being huge and sparsely settled in gathering it's armies.

[The Holy Goat]

Before the war, The North could probably amass 50,000 men at the most. Robb marched south with 18,000 men, and this force was hastily assembled and didn't wait for all houses to gather their full strenght. By comparison, the Westerlands had more time to mass their forces, and a can do so more quickly due to the smaller region - they gathered 35,000, and that without the region being completely swept clean, since Stafford Lannister could amass yet another host at Lannisport. Only a few thousand of the men who wandered south returned in any orderly fashion though. And the Ironborns assaults and current fighting has killed some as well. Overall I'd say the Northern houses together can amass at least 25,000 men, though that's a rough guess. The Riverlands, Westerlands and Stormlands have all suffured even worse than the North IMO, though they aren't out of men either.

[The Witch King of Braavos]

About 35,000, give or take. The North entered the war with 50,000-60,000, of which ~20,000 were lost.

Robb had to run southward to save Ned, Sansa, Arya, Hoster and Edmure Tully. He grabbed what he could in as short a time as possible and marched. The North has the disadvantage of being huge and sparsely settled in gathering it's armies.

Before the war, The North could probably amass 50,000 men at the most. Robb marched south with 18,000 men, and this force was hastily assembled and didn't wait for all houses to gather their full strenght. By comparison, the Westerlands had more time to mass their forces, and a can do so more quickly due to the smaller region - they gathered 35,000, and that without the region being completely swept clean, since Stafford Lannister could amass yet another host at Lannisport. Only a few thousand of the men who wandered south returned in any orderly fashion though. And the Ironborns assaults and current fighting has killed some as well. Overall I'd say the Northern houses together can amass at least 25,000 men, though that's a rough guess. The Riverlands, Westerlands and Stormlands have all suffured even worse than the North IMO, though they aren't out of men either.

How many of those do you think belonged to the Stark Loyalists, the Umbers, Manderly's etc, and how many to those who are of dubious loyalties, like the Ryswells, Dustins? Also, how many do you think the Boltons could directly rally given the time and opportunity?

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Think about this; the clans send men with robb, and had an other 3000 to side up with stannis.

Karstark led their men to the south. Then they took part of roddrick cassel army, and then arnolf had an other 500 to join stannis...

Dont even make me talk about manderly!

[Ghost's Shadow]

Are you sure the mountain clans sent off people with Robb? Were they asked? Just curious, I seem to have forgotten it.

[C0bR]

Are you sure the mountain clans sent off people with Robb? Were they asked? Just curious, I seem to have forgotten it.

They were few who went with him. We don't really know anything about numbers. Owen Norrey for example was murdered at RW and some of them were fightning on Ruby Ford. I doubt they sent more than 500 men.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Thats something that bugs me. Bolton is corcerned about manderlys and umbers loyalty. but nothing is said about the fact that although his own army is mostly of men from dreadfort, they are still the remainings of all robbs army, and there should be some houndreds of all the other houses who come back from the north.

[Northern Nomad]

That depends though; they have more men, but i sincerely doubt that they will be able to maintain an army over 10k.

[Morienthar]

The whole of the north??

I mean should we include Skagos into this??

Then we'd have about 15000 to 20,000 troops.

If not I'd say about 8,000-10,000 men.

[The Holy Goat]

How many of those do you think belonged to the Stark Loyalists, the Umbers, Manderly's etc, and how many to those who are of dubious loyalties, like the Ryswells, Dustins? Also, how many do you think the Boltons could directly rally given the time and opportunity?

We are told in a Game of Thrones that 2,300 Karstarks and 1,500 Manderlys marches south with Robb. The Manderlys held quite large amount of troops back as I understood it, and the Karstarks live far from Winterfell so they probably didn't have as much time to gather troops. The Umbers probably sent as many as the Karstarks, the Glovers and tallharts closer to the Manderlys.

The Starks and Boltons, by comparison, might've been able to march with 3,000 men each, or more. We know that Rodrik Cassel and Cley Cerwyn quickly could gather 600 Stark respective 300 Cerwyn soldiers to take down Dagmer Cleftjaw. Ramsay Bolton could similarily gather 600 Men in a quick time. This suggest to me that House Stark and Bolton on average can gather similar amount of men, while Cerwyn can gather perhaps half.

The Dustins and Ryswell held back as many soldiers as possible, so I doubt they sent more than 500 or so, leaving perhaps 1000 or more in their own lands. And the Boltons probably came marchin back with most of theirs (2000 or more perhaps), and Karstark are probably with him. That said, most of the Mountain clans didn't send many, and the Skagosi didn't either. All in all it's very diffuclt to guess.

The whole of the north??

I mean should we include Skagos into this??

Then we'd have about 15000 to 20,000 troops.

If not I'd say about 8,000-10,000 men.

You put Skagos alone at that many men? I find that hard to believe, since the Mountain clans govern a larger area and seem to be more influential - yet they send "only" 3,500 men to Stannis. 4,000 seem like the max for Skagos IMO.

[Morienthar]

You put Skagos alone at that many men? I find that hard to believe, since the Mountain clans govern a larger area and seem to be more influential - yet they send "only" 3,500 men to Stannis. 4,000 seem like the max for Skagos IMO.

Skagos is the size of Ireland even if it has 1/10th of the population of Ireland(About 400,000 people) it can easily field about 10,000 men if the tribes are united.

If we follow the 1% rule though 4000 does seem more possible but Skagos seems to have more of a warrior culture than the rest of the North.

[Blede]

I always pictured the Northern manpower pool as the same size of the Westerlands'. Robb went south with 20 thousand men, the size of Tywin's starting army. They never had any reinforcements after that, so that left the North roughly other 20-25 thousand men in the North. There had been the Ironborn invasion, winter, infighting after the Red Wedding. I think 10-15 thousand soldiers left (slightly more than the Lannister army at Oxcross) is a good estimate for the Northern remaining forces (to be divided between the Boltons, the Stark diehard loyalists and Stannis, of course).

[Free Northman]

Let's take a step back and just look at the broad picture.

Robb went south with 20,000 men. Roose brought back 4000 of them. So that's 16,000 northmen lost in the South.

Between Rodrik, Benfred Tallhart, and the small battles at Torhenn Square and Deepwood Motte, I'd say the North lost around 4000 men against the Ironborn, cancelling out the 4000 men Roose brought back.

So the rough number of total losses is about 20,000 altogether.

So what's left?

I think there is very good evidence - addressed repeatedly in previous threads - to suggest a minimum initial strenght for the North of 45,000. Meaning there are about 25,000 Northern troops available.

Some give a lower estimate - I believe Ran's estimate is a total strength for the North of 35,000, excluding Skagos. I think that is too low. If the Karstarks are used as a benchmark, the Northern lords should easily be able to raise 45,000 men before the start of the war. Either way, the consensus seems to be 15,000 - 25,000 men left.

I think 25,000. At a minimum.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

How many of those do you think belonged to the Stark Loyalists, the Umbers, Manderly's etc, and how many to those who are of dubious loyalties, like the Ryswells, Dustins? Also, how many do you think the Boltons could directly rally given the time and opportunity?

About 5,000 belong to the Boltons, some Hornwoods included. Maybe another 6-10,000 belong to the Ryswells and Dustins. Manderly has something between 10,000 and 15,000, but that includes his fleet and the Hornwood refugees.

Clans and Mormonts at least 4,000, maybe more.

Umbers 1,000, Karstarks 500-1,000.