A different system of succession in Westeros

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Does the governor of Dragonstone not get to attend?

Dragonstone isn't one of the 7 Kingdoms administrative regions. He might attend a future election if things go the way I think they will :)

[Mad Monkey]

I feel like this doesn't fix the issue that so many of the Seven Kingdoms feel almost no loyalty to the Throne. In a way, Westeros kind of reminds me of places like Nigeria or Somalia; they are technically a 'country' because someone forced them together fifty years ago, but the people there don't look at themselves as one country; they are all members of tribes, or joined together by language and culture, and view the central government if there is one as basically being another imperial power.

The Iron Islands considers the rest of the Seven Kingdoms to be prey. The North and the Riverlands (correctly) view the Iron Throne as a victimizer for killing their lords and butchering their people. Dorne hates the ruling dynasty for the rape and murder of their lord's kin. And when you look at the government, the Westerlands, the Reach, and the Stormlands are overrepresented while the other regions have basically no representation and are basically held in the kingdom using captivity and military force.

Rearranging the government is a good idea, but it doesn't directly address the problem with the Seven Kingdoms -- the fact that it's really just 2 kingdoms (Tyrell and Lannister) and their prisoners and rivals.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I feel like this doesn't fix the issue that so many of the Seven Kingdoms feel almost no loyalty to the Throne. In a way, Westeros kind of reminds me of places like Nigeria or Somalia; they are technically a 'country' because someone forced them together fifty years ago, but the people there don't look at themselves as one country; they are all members of tribes, or joined together by language and culture, and view the central government if there is one as basically being another imperial power.

The Iron Islands considers the rest of the Seven Kingdoms to be prey. The North and the Riverlands (correctly) view the Iron Throne as a victimizer for killing their lords and butchering their people. Dorne hates the ruling dynasty for the rape and murder of their lord's kin. And when you look at the government, the Westerlands, the Reach, and the Stormlands are overrepresented while the other regions have basically no representation and are basically held in the kingdom using captivity and military force.

Rearranging the government is a good idea, but it doesn't directly address the problem with the Seven Kingdoms -- the fact that it's really just 2 kingdoms (Tyrell and Lannister) and their prisoners and rivals.

I don't disagree. But like I said, this is by no means an ideal system. It's more of a fun exercise :) I have actually been doing this on my own for a while now, but I wanted to see what others thought. In my head I had Ned and Edmure voting for each other, but someone here suggested that they would probably vote for Renly (which makes sense since Ned wasn't interested in the Iron Throne).

So let's see what candidates we have. I haven't seen any major disagreements regarding 7 of the candidates. The only objection is with regards to the Iron Islands representative, and I think I agree that they wouldn't send anyone. But that would be an open act of rebellion, and after the election, the new King would probably send an army to end the rebellion and also appoint a new "governor".

Here's what I think would happen in the first round (remember, the election takes place right after Robert's death):

Ned: votes for Renly (Ned didn't know what to think of Renly but he doesn't care enough about the other candidates and since Stannis is not a candidate, he would go with Robert's younger brother).

Edmure: Does whatever Ned does and votes for Renly.

Mace Tyrell: Votes for Renly

Renly: He can't vote for himself. He might have voted for Ned or even Littlefinger, but he would probably go with Mace.

Tywin: Not sure. If he is under the impression that Renly is going to win, he might vote for him. He might also vote for Littlefinger, who the Lannisters seem to respect for some reason (and most importantly not fear, since he doesn't own any land).

Littlefinger: He always does something unexpected so I'm not sure. Renly is the obvious choice, but you never know with this guy.

Oberyn: Oberyn is a wildcard. I think he would size them up and vote for whoever he thinks is the most capable (probably Ned). I can't imagine him giving a tactical vote.

So if Tywin and Littlefinger vote for Renly, and Oberyn votes for Ned, the result would be:

Renly 5

Mace Tyrell 1

Ned 1

Am I missing something? Please let me know what you disagree with. If this is what happens, Renly becomes King and his next task is to appoint the governor of the Stormlands, and also the governor of the Iron Islands (if he chooses to end the rebellion because he might decide that it's not worth it).

[tyrion_skywalker]

Interesting thought, sounds a lot like the papal conclave that Catholics use to select popes (and they have a checkered history of picking popes). But I would think that Robert would've replaced the Martells, and Tyrells after RB, and the Greyjoys after the rebelled.

Also whou can be king under this system?

Any highborn?

Any highborn and knight (are the KG and NW still bound by their vows)?

Anyone?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Interesting thought, sounds a lot like the papal conclave that Catholics use to select popes (and they have a checkered history of picking popes). But I would think that Robert would've replaced the Martells, and Tyrells after RB, and the Greyjoys after the rebelled.

Also whou can be king under this system?

Any highborn?

Any highborn and knight (are the KG and NW still bound by their vows)?

Anyone?

Much of what you say in the first paragraph is correct but I assumed the system was implemented at the start of A Game of Thrones. Only one of the 8 "governors" can be King, but anyone can be a "governor" (that includes knights, kings guard members, maesters etc.)

And yes the papal conclave was my inspiration :)

[l3ol3o]

This system would be corrupted to easily. The most able wouldn't be choosen, only the most hungry. Whoever could threaten, blackmail, and buy the other Governors off would win.

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

_{Eddard Stark (North), Edmure Tully (Riverlands), Petyr Baelish (Vale), Tywin Lannister (Westerlands), Balon Greyjoy (Iron Islands), Renly Baratheon (Stormlands), Mace Tyrell (Reach) and Oberyn Martell (Dorne).}

_{Ok im going to start with Ned}

_{Ned- I think he Votes Renly as his first pick. Ed is too young, he hates Petyr, he hates Tywin, Balon sucks no one will vote for him, Mace maybe option number 3 in his book, im not sure what Ned thinks of Dorne but his sister died there so... im not thinking Oberyn.}

_{Edmure- Votes Ned, hes his brother in law. Maybe Renly is his next option, lastly maybe Petyr i dont remember what he thinks of him but his sisters like him. No to Balon Tywin Mace and Oberyn.}

_{Petyr- He will vote for whoever leaves him with the most power so Mace Tywin Renly or maybe Edmure. Really too hard to know what he wants overall. (other than Sansa)}

_{Tywin- Hard one here, I dont think he wants the IT for himself Maybe he votes Renly cuz he thinks he will be able to control him some how or Mace.}

_{Balon- Id guess himself, cuz he hates everone. On the other hand his vote might end up being really important if you can get it. But i dont know how to go about that, because he wont take some handout he pays the iron price. Still could be a big swing vote.}

Renly- so he cant vote for himself?(votes for himself anyways) I guess Balon or someone no one else will vote for so he can win.

Mace- Renly so his little girl can be queen. Next maybe Tywin to get in his good graces.

Oberyn- Him and his bro will have talked it out and know that they wont be elected. So i think they only respect Ned and he gets the vote this is where everything changes, if they (Oberyn Ned and Edmure) get someone else to vote for ned his chances could look good.

[A Man Has Said]

Just FYI, there are NINE administrative regions, not eight.

When the Conquest happened, the Riverlands were not a separate kingdom, but under the control of the Ironborn. (Specifically Harren Hoare, the Ironborn King who built Harrenhall.)

Aegon the Conqueror killed Harren, melted a good bit of his newly-built castle, and extinguished the Hoare line. He split up their holdings - the Iron Islands themselves went to the Greyjoys, raised up to the status of Lords Paramount. Aegon also raised the Tullys to Lords Paramount for their leal service to him. A portion of the remaining Hoare holdings were split off and became the Crownlands. There is no 'Lord Paramount' in the Crownlands because, as the name implies, it is ruled directly from the iron throne in King's Landing.

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

This system would be corrupted to easily. The most able wouldn't be choosen, only the most hungry. Whoever could threaten, blackmail, and buy the other Governors off would win.

ya im with you on that one

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Just FYI, there are NINE administrative regions, not eight.

When the Conquest happened, the Riverlands were not a separate kingdom, but under the control of the Ironborn. (Specifically Harren Hoare, the Ironborn King who built Harrenhall.)

Aegon the Conqueror killed Harren, melted a good bit of his newly-built castle, and extinguished the Hoare line. He split up their holdings - the Iron Islands themselves went to the Greyjoys, raised up to the status of Lords Paramount. Aegon also raised the Tullys to Lords Paramount for their leal service to him. A portion of the remaining Hoare holdings were split off and became the Crownlands. There is no 'Lord Paramount' in the Crownlands because, as the name implies, it is ruled directly from the iron throne in King's Landing.

Well yes. The Crownlands are a bit like the Washington D.C. of the 7 Kingdoms and wouldn't have a vote (the same way D.C. doesn't have a vote in the U.S. Senate or House of Representatives).

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

_{Eddard Stark (North), Edmure Tully (Riverlands), Petyr Baelish (Vale), Tywin Lannister (Westerlands), Balon Greyjoy (Iron Islands), Renly Baratheon (Stormlands), Mace Tyrell (Reach) and Oberyn Martell (Dorne).}

_{Ok im going to start with Ned}

_{Ned- I think he Votes Renly as his first pick. Ed is too young, he hates Petyr, he hates Tywin, Balon sucks no one will vote for him, Mace maybe option number 3 in his book, im not sure what Ned thinks of Dorne but his sister died there so... im not thinking Oberyn.}

_{Edmure- Votes Ned, hes his brother in law. Maybe Renly is his next option, lastly maybe Petyr i dont remember what he thinks of him but his sisters like him. No to Balon Tywin Mace and Oberyn.}

_{Petyr- He will vote for whoever leaves him with the most power so Mace Tywin Renly or maybe Edmure. Really too hard to know what he wants overall. (other than Sansa)}

_{Tywin- Hard one here, I dont think he wants the IT for himself Maybe he votes Renly cuz he thinks he will be able to control him some how or Mace.}

_{Balon- Id guess himself, cuz he hates everone. On the other hand his vote might end up being really important if you can get it. But i dont know how to go about that, because he wont take some handout he pays the iron price. Still could be a big swing vote.}

Renly- so he cant vote for himself?(votes for himself anyways) I guess Balon or someone no one else will vote for so he can win.

Mace- Renly so his little girl can be queen. Next maybe Tywin to get in his good graces.

Oberyn- Him and his bro will have talked it out and know that they wont be elected. So i think they only respect Ned and he gets the vote this is where everything changes, if they (Oberyn Ned and Edmure) get someone else to vote for ned his chances could look good.

I don't think Edmure would vote for Littlefinger. They were friends when they were children, but LF is now persona non grata in the Tully household. I can see Edmure voting for Ned. Someone else mentioned that both Ned and Edmure would vote for Renly, but that would require Ned doing some behind the scenes chit-chat with Edmure, which I don't think he would. So yes, I think you're right. Without being told anything by Ned, Edmure would vote for Ned.

So do you think Balon would participate if not participating was considered an act of open rebellion? I should mention that they can't vote for themselves (they would get a ballot with 7 names on it). I can't really see who he would vote because to him they're all girly men. I think if he wanted to avoid a war with the 7 Kingdoms he might have sent Asha who would have probably voted for Oberyn (no major conflicts with the Iron Islands and is tough enough guy to convince the Ironborn he would be a good leader).

[tyrion_skywalker]

I gotcha, the system still has problems, but under this situation I def see Tywin trying to buy it. It wouldn't end after 1 vote and I doubt the Southerns would like the idea of Ned or a Greyjoy. Maybe a comprise candidate probably would be Edmure. Although Tywin might be able to buy him and be his puppet master (money o the tullys, maybe marrying him Cersei) and play him off as the comprise candidate.