A different system of succession in Westeros

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I was wondering what Westeros would be like with a succession system based on ability rather than who your parents are. I came up with a new system that I think would create some interesting discussions and I am assuming that the system is implemented at the start of A Game of Thrones. The system described below is by no means ideal, but one that would generate interesting discussions IMO.

In this new system, the King, who resides in the Crownlands, rules over the 8 administrative regions (the 7 Kingdoms and the Riverlands). Each administrative region has its own “governor” (or at least that’s what we can call them to make this simpler – NOTE: the governors aren’t necessarily lords and don’t have reside at the overlord’s castle). If a governor dies, the King appoints his or her replacement.

Now if the King dies, the 8 governors convene at King’s Landing and choose the new King. If one of the 8 governors cannot or does not want to attend, he or she resigns and appoints his/her replacement (if Ned for example is the governor in the North and does not want to attend he appoints a new governor to replace him and attend the election - NOTE: the reason they appoint their own replacement is because there is no King, who would normally do this). In the first round of voting, the candidates cannot vote for themselves. The candidates that get less than 2 votes are eliminated (unless there is only one candidate with 2 votes or more, in which case only the candidates with no votes are eliminated). In the 2^nd round, the surviving candidates cannot vote. The voting continues until a candidate has a majority of votes (4). If two candidates are tied with 3 votes each, who becomes King is decided by a duel between them, unless one of the candidates yields.

Also, let’s assume that all characters die at the same time they die in the novels, and everything else is exactly the same except for who rules (I know this is impossible, but it would be simpler this way).

So at the beginning of A Game of Thrones we have the following King and “governors”:

King: Robert Baratheon

North: Eddard Stark

Riverlands: Hoster Tully

Vale: Robert Arryn

Iron Islands: Balon Greyjoy

Westerlands: Tywin Lannister

Stormlands: Renly Baratheon

Reach: Mace Tyrell

Dorne: Doran Martell

So the first event that would cause a change in the above list is the death of Robert Baratheon. The 8 governors are supposed to meet in King’s Landing to choose a new King. Let’s assume that the Kingsguard immediately sends someone to each of the 8 governors and requests his or her presence. Ned, Tywin, Renly and Mace attend. Hoster Tully would be unable to go due to his health issues and would name Edmure his replacement and “governor” of the Riverlands. Doran would also not be able to attend for similar reasons. He might have named Arianne or even Quentyn as his replacement, but since the new system gives him some flexibility, I think he would have probably named Oberyn. I think Robert Arryn would not have wanted to leave the Vale, so he would have to appoint a replacement. Lysa would probably volunteer to go in his place and thus become the governor, but Robert wouldn’t let her go and she always did what her son wanted. My guess is that Lysa would offer the job to Littlefinger under the condition that he comes and lives with her or even marries her, and eventually lets Robert rule once he’s of age. I also think Balon might have hesitated to go to King’s Landing (I don’t think he’s ever left the Iron Islands) and send Asha in his place (which would also be the smart thing to do since this would ensure that Asha would continue ruling once he dies and that’s what Balon wants), but since Balon isn’t particularly smart, he would go himself.

So before the voting starts I have the following 8 candidates: Eddard Stark (North), Edmure Tully (Riverlands), Petyr Baelish (Vale), Tywin Lannister (Westerlands), Balon Greyjoy (Iron Islands), Renly Baratheon (Stormlands), Mace Tyrell (Reach) and Oberyn Martell (Dorne).

Any disagreements on who would attend or who their replacement would be? Before we start speculating on who each candidate would vote for, I wanted to hear what everyone's thoughts were, just to make sure I'm not missing anything important (something might say that Tywin wouldn't attend for whatever reason).

[The Fourth Dragon Head]

Although this system would vastly improve the way Westeros operates and probably save thousands of lives... the war of Five Kings makes for the better story

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

What happens when each person chooses someone different?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Although this system would vastly improve the way Westeros operates and probably save thousands of lives... the war of Five Kings makes for the better story

Well yes that's true, but this would still be fun to discuss more so as a study on the character's loyalties through the choices they would make :)

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

What happens when each person chooses someone different?

Then they have a second round of voting.

[WinterKing]

Elective Monarchies were not really stable in real world, but this is an improvement.Kind of remind me of the Doges of Venice.

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

I dont think Balon would go, and i dont think he would send anyone. I dont think he respects the iron throne what so ever. So count out the Iron Islands. Also do the Govs have to vote for one of them or can they vote for anyone?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Then they have a second round of voting.

Hmm I think this form of voting would be more fair, but I think the GOT will still play a big role, houses will ally to vote for a particular person they want.

Also what if there is tie 4 to 4.

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

also we would have the selling off of sons and daughters like wild fire this would be crazy to watch.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I dont think Balon would go, and i dont think he would send anyone. I dont think he respects the iron throne what so ever. So count out the Iron Islands. Also do the Govs have to vote for one of them or can they vote for anyone?

Yes they have to vote for one of them. Also, you're right about Balon, but since the Kingsguard would go to each of the 8 governors and demand their presence, not attending would be an open act of rebellion that would be dealt with once the new King is elected. Is Balon willing to do that? I would like to hear more opinions on this before we proceed with the speculation on who would vote for whom.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Hmm I think this form of voting would be more fair, but I think the GOT will still play a big role, houses will ally to vote for a particular person they want.

Also what if there is tie 4 to 4.

Oh absolutely.

To answer your question: After round 1, the remaining candidates don't vote (if for example there are only two candidates left, they don't get to vote, and we are left with 6 voters).

And yes political marriages and other alliances still play a big role. But lets assume that everything goes the same way it does in the books, so Renly still marries Margaery (which would probably mean that Mace and Renly vote each other). I forgot to mention that the ballots would be secret but with only 8 voters it might still be easy to figure out who voted for whom.

[Timm Snow]

seeing as balon rebelled in the real story i find it difficult to believe he would act differently with your system. he does not care about the IT.

/EDIT: asha might see a chance to gain some land in it. but that would contradict the old way. land is not gained by political meddling but by paying the iron fucking price. :smoking:

[valtolin]

I think that with a system like that Renly could have had a decent shot, since this system favours a candidate's likeability instead than his military ability.

Ned, Edmure and Renly would probably vote Renly in continuity with the Stark-Tully-Baratheon alliance that protagonised the rebellion, with the wedding with Margaery Renly would win the missing vote.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

seeing as balon rebelled in the real story i find it difficult to believe he would act differently with your system. he does not care about the IT.

/EDIT: asha might see a chance to gain some land in it. but that would contradict the old way. land is not gained by political meddling but by paying the iron fucking price. :smoking:

Point taken. The thing is that once the new King is elected, he would deal with the rebellion in the Iron Islands and if the rebellion was squashed he would appoint his own governor. Asha would probably not agree with rebelling against the Iron Throne, but she always obeyed her father (even though she knew he was wrong as we saw at the Kingsmoot).

And yes Renly does make sense. I was thinking that Ned and Edmure would vote each other, but Ned wasn't interested so I could see them voting for Renly. Oberyn and Tywin would be wildcards.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

wouldnt Ned vote for Stannis?

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

I still dont think it would get past one round people like tywin wouldnt want to end it fast and have a set plan everyone would know who was voting for who and they would all conspire with maybe a little bit of back stabbing. But still Frogeaters can they vote for someone who is not one of the voting 8?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

wouldnt Ned vote for Stannis?

Probably, if he was a candidate. But in this election he wouldn't be.

[Michael Stark Thenextwolf]

I would say yes Ned would vote for stannis. Ned follows the old way.

[BaseBornBastard]

Does the governor of Dragonstone not get to attend?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I still dont think it would get past one round people like tywin wouldnt want to end it fast and have a set plan everyone would know who was voting for who and they would all conspire with maybe a little bit of back stabbing. But still Frogeaters can they vote for someone who is not one of the voting 8?

No. If we allow them to do that, then we have an unlimited number of candidates and it becomes too confusing. I thought we could stick with having them vote for one of the other 7 "governors" to make it simpler for us.