So Shireen can't infect anyone with greyscale?

[Cyvasse Khal]

Apologies if this has been answered before or if it's a stupid question.

I know that Shireen's hideous face is a result of once having greyscale as an infant and that she doesn't have it anymore, but it seems the disease is highly infectious. Has she not infected anyone from when she was an infant? Is the exposed remnants of it on her face not a threat to infect anyone?

JonCon contracted it very quickly after rescuing Tyrion, and Tyrion didn't even show any physical signs of having it after touching the Stone Man. If I were at Castle Black I would be avoiding that girl at all costs.

[Petyr Patter]

This question has not been answered... or rather its been answered twice.

The Maesters believe that children can survive greyscale, after which they are no longer infectious. However, they will still show the "scars" of the disease.

However, Val believes otherwise, that the disease merely lies dormant, and Shireen is a walking time bomb of death waiting to go off.

[Mad Monkey]

That whole thing seems screwy to me. At times,people talk about it like a scarier form of chickenpox -- to the point where it's said that children can brush it off no problem but adults drop dead like flies from it. Sometimes though it's more like the plague or leprosy and if you even touch someone who has it your life is basically over, and people who are infected have to be confined to some scary island by the government to deteriorate.

Tyrion gets up close and personal with a stone man and falls into a river and seems to be fine, while Jon Connington is already visibly dying after his own involvement in the same event.

Then you have the maesters who say that survivors of greyscale who don't turn into stone men aren't infectious, but Val the wildling -- a noted clinical diagnostician and respected member of the North-of-the-Wall U medical faculty ("Go Shadowcats!!") not only considers Shireen to be contagious but has already pronounced her dead. It's hard to question Val's conclusion because she has done so much research in the field and presented the Lord Commander with so much concrete and irrefutable evidence.

It may be the case that Shireen is not contagious and never will become so, but she will be a scapegoat of the plague. I've also heard it said that she might be the Stone Dragon of legend -- through her father she has Targayen blood, and some also suspect that she might be sacrificed to either resurrect Jon Snow or bring to life a dragon (king's blood?)

[danm_999]

According to the Maesters (and we hear this through Tyrion) there are three types of greyscale.

The first is the type Shireen has, which you catch as a child and is supposed to be caused by damp. It leaves you disfigured, but you survive, and then you can't catch either of the other two types. It's not clear if it's then communicable; the Maesters don't seem to think so, but Val does.

The second is the type Jon Connington has, which you catch from touching another type 2 infected person, which is lethal. Unlike the first type of greyscale, it never stops unless you amputate the part of your body that's infected. Even them sometimes, that doesn't do it.

The third is the grey plague, which seems to be mortal and much more effective at spreading itself than type two. We know historically, Westeros has had at least one epidemic of this.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

The Wildlings take on greyscale in children is flawed; they immediately euthanize any man, woman or child who has it and therefore have no way of actually knowing that children can survive it and are no longer infectious.

[danm_999]

The Wildlings take on greyscale in children is flawed; they immediately euthanize any man, woman or child who has it and therefore have no way of actually knowing that children can survive it and are no longer infectious.

That is indeed a problem with their method for determining whether greyscale "always" returns. There's also the problem they have that they lack a written language, a centralised medical/scholarly authority and the same sample size as the Maesters of the Seven Kingdoms.

[Cyvasse Khal]

It seems even maesters aren't really sure what the hell to do about it. Some things are said to work, but only sometimes. After hundreds or thousands of years of trying to figure it out all they have is chop the limb off but you might still have it anyway, how bout some limes and mustard, or just take a nice warm bath?

Seems more like a modern cancer that perplexes doctors and researchers, but with some elements of chickenpox/smallpox too.

[danm_999]

It seems even maesters aren't really sure what the hell to do about it. Some things are said to work, but only sometimes. After hundreds or thousands of years of trying to figure it out all they have is chop the limb off but you might still have it anyway, how bout some limes and mustard, or just take a nice warm bath?

Seems more like a modern cancer that perplexes doctors and researchers, but with some elements of chickenpox/smallpox too.

It's possible there's a magical component to the disease as well.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

I think Val's superstitious more than scientific. However, superstitions usually come from somewhere. I think of it like herpes. You can't get rid of it, it can scar you and it can flare up. The wiki entry is interesting. The mythical origin of greyscale in Essos is a curse from the Rhoynar on the Valyrians. The Rhoynar were river-people associated with water. Greyscale in Westeros is associated with the damp. Shireen contracted the disease on Dragonstone which is Valyrian in construction. If it is a curse of the water against fire, one could understand why the Wildlings fear it.

[Pod The Impaler]

This question has not been answered... or rather its been answered twice.

The Maesters believe that children can survive greyscale, after which they are no longer infectious. However, they will still show the "scars" of the disease.

However, Val believes otherwise, that the disease merely lies dormant, and Shireen is a walking time bomb of death waiting to go off.

I think the "grey rats" are going to lose this bet in the end.

[Cyvasse Khal]

That is interesting to think of it as a curse. Here's a crackpot: Shireen was given greyscale (a disease associated with water) somehow by a supporter of R'hllor to eventually persuade Stannis to support the Lord of Light (associated with fire).

[TalalOfDorne]

Maybe its because after she grew up the disease became dormant.

[Natasi]

I support Val's superstition. Perhaps she and the other Wildlings take it too far but I cannot ignore their suspicions entirely. It seems to me, with the amount of time spent on discussing the disease and that it is Shireen's most defining feature, that her having it is going to come up as important in the future. I don't believe she is just some harmless case...

[Dead Wolf]

It's possible that she can. Selyse kisses her cheek in ADWD and Jon notices that it's the cheek unmarked by greyscale.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Val and the wildlings openly disagree with the maesters. I believe they have the right of it.

Maybe the coud makes the disease spread again?

[Ser Greg of House House]

I support Val's superstition. Perhaps she and the other Wildlings take it too far but I cannot ignore their suspicions entirely. It seems to me, with the amount of time spent on discussing the disease and that it is Shireen's most defining feature, that her having it is going to come up as important in the future. I don't believe she is just some harmless case...

I tend to believe there's some wisdom behind what Val says, yes, and that Shireen's disease will probably mean something in the future. But she doesn't necessarily need to actually infect someone, maybe people go sick for other reason and people blame it on her. Sacrificing his own daughter would be a new low for Stannis and we know he has the potential to become a villain (which I suspect since the show portrays him openly as one).

[Gun Street Girl]

Shireen did grow up far south of the Wall. Perhaps the disease behaves differently in the climate of the far north?

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Sacrificing his own daughter would be a new low for Stannis and we know he has the potential to become a villain (which I suspect since the show portrays him openly as one).

The show portrays him as one? Really? I do not get that impression as all.

And it seems more likely that it would be Selyse who would sacrifice her if Mel suggests so. (To me it does not seem like something Stannis would do, and he is near Winterfell while Selyse, Shireen, and Mel are all at the wall.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

That whole thing seems screwy to me. At times,people talk about it like a scarier form of chickenpox -- to the point where it's said that children can brush it off no problem but adults drop dead like flies from it. Sometimes though it's more like the plague or leprosy and if you even touch someone who has it your life is basically over, and people who are infected have to be confined to some scary island by the government to deteriorate.

First, if we look at the chicken pox, most children survive the disease with nothing more than chicken soup and a week in bed however they are left with the marks. It is highly contagious. Adults MUST take medication or they will die.

As for greyscale, Val says:

“It is not always mortal in children.”

“North of the Wall it is.

Could it be that north of the Wall the disease behaves differently? Martin is clearly playing with science vs. belief here. It will be curious to see how it plays out.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Could it be that north of the Wall the disease behaves differently? Martin is clearly playing with science vs. belief here. It will be curious to see how it plays out.

I maintain the notion that the Wildlings don't know squat about greyscale because they immediately cull anyone who has it, no matter their age. Val's take on mortality is correct in the sense that having greyscale north of the Wall means you'll be euthanized at first chance.