Why did Jon Snow forcibly commandeer an Ibbenese and Pentoshi ship?

[Tyrus Martell]

In A Dance with Dragons (Chapter 44/Jon IX), Jon Snow tallies the available ships at his command at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea for Cotter Pyke to use in the (doomed) expedition to Hardhome.

The three Braavosi ships would bring the fleet at Eastwatch up to eleven, including the Ibbenese whaler that Cotter Pyke had commandeered on Jon’s order, a trading galley out of Pentos similarly impressed, and three battered Lysene warships, remnants of Salladhor Saan’s former fleet driven back north by the autumn storms. All three of Saan’s ships had been in dire need of refitting, but by now the work should be complete.

His total count, as we see, is 11 ships. A recap of the ships mentioned and not mentioned:

• 3 are Night's Watch owned - Blackbird, Talon and Stormcrow.
  
• 3 are Braavosi ships that came and delivered Tycho Nestoris to the Wall.
  
• 3 are Lysene ships, remnants of Salladaor Saan's fleet that needed repairs.
  
• Random Pentoshi trader.
  
• Random Ibbenese whaler.
  

I found this small detail very intriguing (added it to the ASOIAF wiki) and was surprised nobody has brought it up here. Unlike the foreign Braavosi or Lysene trios, which both have reasons to help (the former group on orders of Tycho and as part of the negotiation between the Iron Bank and Jon Snow, and the latter group because Eastwatch helped with their ship's repairs) these two ships are completely neutral and unaffiliated with the goings-on of the Night's Watch or Westeros.

Both are likely trading ships travelling through the Bay of Seals on the way to rich port cities on the eastern seaboard (Gulltown), and Jon Snow basically orders Cotter Pyke to commandeer and take over them for his own use. What happened to the captains and crew of those two ships? Surely they didn't want their ship impressed by a foreign organisation or want to randomly help the Night's Watch and put aside all of their former business. I found this order quite unusual for Jon.

The detail is further muddled when, in the next chapter (Jon X), he gets a raven from Maester Harmune and Cotter Pyke during the marriage feast of Alys Karstark. The pair have officially left Eastwatch and are on the way to Hardhome. Cotter Pyke writes:

Calm seas today. Eleven ships set sail for Hardhome on the morning tide. Three Braavosi, four Lyseni, four of ours. Two of the Lyseni barely seaworthy. We may drown more wildlings than we save. Your command. Twenty ravens aboard, and Maester Harmune. Will send reports. I command from Talon, Tattersalt second on Blackbird, Ser Glendon holds Eastwatch.

There is no mention of the Ibbenese whaler or the Pentoshi galley in the letter, and now Cotter Pyke claims there are four Lyseni ships instead of three, and four "of ours" (Night's Watch owned) ships instead of the usual three we know of - Blackbird, Talon, and Stormcrow. Did he just write incorrectly or did he count one of the "impressed" foreign ships as one of the Night's Watch's own, now?

Whatever the case, what do people think of Jon Snow's forcible impression of these two neutral foreign ships? Was it within his rights as Lord Commander? Was it a potentially hostile act, a breaking of neutrality perhaps - even if the ships and their crews were Essosi in origin?

GRRM has always written fairly believable characters who are naturally selfish and wouldn't just willingly put aside their missions or motives to help organisations like the Night's Watch, even if their ancient order is devoted to something once seen as honourable. I seriously doubt a foreign crew of Ibbenese and Pentoshi sailors would have let their ships be commandeered without a fight, nor would they help in the mission to Hardhome without any personal stake or understanding for the situation.

[Fire Eater]

The Pentoshi and Ibbense who have visited the North before know that the ships with black sails belong to the NW with no history of aggression towards ships in the Bay of Seals, and thought the NW would only do something like a check to see they weren't smuggling weapons to the wildlings. Once the NW men were on their ships, if they fight them they would lose as they are whalers and sailors while Pyke is a former pirate experienced in naval combat and the NW men have military training. Pyke probably counted the impressed ships as their own. Jon would only be using those ships for a single voyage.

Tyrion does the same thing in ACoK in preparing defenses in KL.

[Crowford]

Yeah, he probably did just that. Seized the ships, maybe told the crew that he would reimburse them at a later point (at least for their wasted time), and sailed off. Desperate times, desperate measures, and so on. Jon and Cotter Pyke expected to have need of every ship they could get their hands on at Hardhome. A cargo ship or a whaler would serve their purpose just fine, they were not going to engage in naval or shore combat, Pyke's mission was to load the Wildlings aboard and get out of there as soon as possible.

As for the discrepancy in the list of ships... well, to be honest, that was probably an author's mistake. But for the sake of narrative cohesion, let's assume that Pyke just didn't care, counted the Pentoshi ship as one of the Lysene ones (they are vaguely similar, right?) and the whaler as a Night's Watch ship, maybe because it's crew was very unwilling to be commandeered, so Pyke replaced most of them with his own men.

[Tyrus Martell]

The Pentoshi and Ibbense who have visited the North before know the the ships with black sails belong to the NW with no history of aggression towards ships in the Bay of Seals, and thought they would only do something like a check to see they weren't smuggling weapons to the wildlings. Once the NW men were on their ships, if the fight them they would lose as they are whalers and sailors while Pyke is a former pirate experienced in naval combat and the NW men have military training. Pyke probably counted the impressed ships as their own. Jon would only be using those ships for a single voyage.

I can imagine that scenario playing out, yes. Smart pick up about the smuggling possibility. I'm not sure if I rightly recall in the earlier two books, there's a mention of Night's Watch rangers from Eastwatch capturing weapon smugglers and executing them for supplying the wildlings.

However, was it right for Jon to order Cotter Pyke and the Eastwatch men to take over these neutral Essosi ships? Is that within his command?

Yeah, he probably did just that. Seized the ships, maybe told the crew that he would reimburse them at a later point (at least for their wasted time), and sailed off. Desperate times, desperate measures, and so on. Jon and Cotter Pyke expected to have need of every ship they could get their hands on at Hardhome. A cargo ship or a whaler would serve their purpose just fine, they were not going to engage in naval or shore combat, Pyke's mission was to load the Wildlings aboard and get out of there as soon as possible.

As for the discrepancy in the list of ships... well, to be honest, that was probably an author's mistake. But for the sake of narrative cohesion, let's assume that Pyke just didn't care, counted the Pentoshi ship as one of the Lysene ones (they are vaguely similar, right?) and the whaler as a Night's Watch ship, maybe because it's crew was very unwilling to be commandeered, so Pyke replaced most of them with his own men.

I imagine G.R.R.M. forgot about his mention of the Pentoshi galley and Ibbenese whaler, just like he's forgotten other details (like the Pentoshi sellsword in AGOT).

Still, though, we hear nothing else about the crew or the captain and whether or not they fought back, were killed, or were brought to Eastwatch - where there is already a dangerous melting pot of isolated Night's Watch rangers, Giants, left-over Lysene and Queen's Men, and Devyn Sealskinner's clan next door in Greenguard. I find it hard to believe every one of them did not protest, or went along willingly to Hardhome with Cotter Pyke's fleet.

I guess this small detail intrigued me because I found it to be a very unusual, desperate forceful order from Jon Snow. Not sure he would have done it so quickly had it been Westerosi ships, for fear of reprisal.

[Bryanfury]

We don't know if anything like that has happened before, but as far as I'm concerned the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch can commandeer any ship operating within the Nights Watch waters. In my opinion the crew would have been told to deal with it until further notice, and Jon probably would have released the ships without issue once that mission was complete.

[Tyrus Martell]

We don't know if anything like that has happened before, but as far as I'm concerned the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch can commandeer any ship operating within the Nights Watch waters. In my opinion the crew would have been told to deal with it until further notice, and Jon probably would have released the ships without issue once that mission was complete.

What happens when his word isn't enough, as we've seen? The mission to Hardhome has been a disaster, with only six ships left of the eleven that set sail, and it looks extremely likely that Cotter Pyke and the Braavosi ships with him won't make it back.

The question is, where is/what happens to those Ibbenese or Pentoshi crew members who might not have sailed north with them in protest and stayed at Eastwatch? Don't think signing up for a Black Cloak would be a favoured option, even if they're abandoned in the North in the middle of winter.

[Bryanfury]

Didn't say anything about his word. Quite frankly don't move into military organisations jurisdiction during war time if you don't want your hardware commandeered. The crew either stayed with ship or were dumped at Eastwatch. Tough tits if they've been lost to the cause. It sucks for them but the feelings of some whalers are a little bit irrelevent compared to the whole Others business.

[The Bedding]

We don't know if anything like that has happened before, but as far as I'm concerned the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch can commandeer any ship operating within the Nights Watch waters. In my opinion the crew would have been told to deal with it until further notice, and Jon probably would have released the ships without issue once that mission was complete.

What happens if the crew refuses?

[Bryanfury]

Belly meets sword.

[A Bastard Snow]

As far as I know for the most part the area controlled by the NW is under the sole judicial authority of the Lord Commander and as such any ships traveling in the area can be commandeered if the NW has need of them.The Nights Watch is allowed to search and seize any ship sailing in their territory (we are told that the Watch has captured and executed many people in the past for trading with the Free-Folk)

Generally speaking though any Ship unless directly trading with the Watch can be captured for trespassing (The Whaler hunting whales in seas owned by the Watch can be considered poaching)

[Tyrus Martell]

Didn't say anything about his word. Quite frankly don't move into military organisations jurisdiction during war time if you don't want your hardware commandeered. The crew either stayed with ship or were dumped at Eastwatch. Tough tits if they've been lost to the cause. It sucks for them but the feelings of some whalers are a little bit irrelevent compared to the whole Others business.

We know about the importance of the Others business, as the readers, so we're bias towards the actions of the Night's Watch.

To the foreign Ibbenese and Pentoshi, who care little for Westeros politics (hey don't care about the Wildlings) and probably know less of its legends (such as the Others), their captains and crews would be completely justified in resisting Cotter Pyke's forcible commandeering of their ship and livelihoods. They probably have no idea about the battles in the North at the moment and were just following the established naval trading route as usual.

I'm just curious to see how this plays out now we know what happened to the fleet at Hardhome (disaster) and what happened to the captains and crews and if they fought back or stayed at Eastwatch.

As far as I know for the most part the area controlled by the NW is under the sole judicial authority of the Lord Commander and as such any ships traveling in the area can be commandeered if the NW has need of them.The Nights Watch is allowed to search and seize any ship sailing in their territory (we are told that the Watch has captured and executed many people in the past for trading with the Free-Folk)

Yep, we've heard past tales of ships being captured by Night's Watch members for selling weapons to the wildlings (I looked up and remembered Davos's story of his old captain getting executed for this particular reason) but as far as we know these two ships were travelling the long way from the North of the Narrow Sea (or from the Shivering Sea for the Ibbenese whaler) and then down the Eastern seaboard of Westeros, from Eastwatch to Gulltown to King's Landing most likely, with stops in between. While I'm sure it's still acknowledged the Watch has naval jurisdiction (such as checking ships don't go North of the Wall to the wildlings), I doubt they have full authority to seize ships completely. If it was a Westerosi ship, I doubt Jon would have ordered the same thing for fear of reprisal.

Generally speaking though any Ship unless directly trading with the Watch can be captured for trespassing (The Whaler hunting whales in seas owned by the Watch can be considered poaching)

The Ibbenese whaler was probably heading to Westeros for trade by that point. Ib and Far Ib have seas of whales back home, as stated in the World of Ice and Fire. Why would they conduct their whaling near the shores of Westeros, when they already have their resources closer to home? No, I think they were travelling and minding their own business with blubber and whale tar ready to trade before Jon had Cotter Pyke randomly take over the whaler and say, "lol guyz we have to have ur ship 2 bad".

Not sure if Jon had the complete right to take over those two ships, even if they're Essosi. I just find the order very interesting, hope to see some consequences or follow-up regarding the captains and crews and their fate in The Winds of Winter.

[sertravisredbeard]

I can imagine Cotter Pyke would be pretty persuasive when told to "borrow" the ships from the traders. Also, apparently there's a healthy amount of trade between the Free Cities, other port towns, and Eastwatch. Traders not being cooperative would be told they couldn't trade there anymore if they didn't help out. But in that case I don't know who would suffer more, the traders or the Watch.

And I'd never thought anymore about that random sentence in the fifth book than I just did now.

[Hodor's Dragon]

I was a little surprised when I learned that Stannis and Balon had each seized or impounded every ship that sailed into their ports for quite some time. In our world, those are acts of war.

The distinction is that both Stannis and Balon have the kind of fleet that allows them to kind of say "OK, whatcha gonna do about it?" I don't think the Nights Watch does.

[A Bastard Snow]

I was a little surprised when I learned that Stannis and Balon had each seized or impounded every ship that sailed into their ports for quite some time. In our world, those are acts of war.

The distinction is that both Stannis and Balon have the kind of fleet that allows them to kind of say "OK, whatcha gonna do about it?" I don't think the Nights Watch does.

Another important thing to note is the fact that Jon is a Bastard Stark.So it is possible he could rule the North someday so I doubt some merchant guild is going to want to make a fuss and either lose trading rights with the Watch or possibly with the entire North.

Also the ships taken are all civilian ships which would not be an act of war as the person in charge of the territory can if they want confiscate all goods entering into said land.Most of the time you would not do it as it might make some people a bit angry but its an option.

And lastly while the Watch might be a Sovereign region in the North no one in the Free-Cities can do anything as the Northern Lords would never tolerate someone invading the North to attack the watch.

So long as the Watch has the loyalty of Northern Lords they can do w/e they like as they have no other enemy that has the means to actually harm them.

[The Drunkard]

Nobles commandeering civilian resources seems like a common thing. You have Tywin and his men foraging the Riverlands, Robb and his men foraging the Westerlands, Balon nabbing all the ships that went near Pyke, Stannis nabbing all the ships that went near Dragonstone, Tyrion nabbing all the ships at King's Landing (and burning down houses along the walls), Dany nabbing the ships Illyrio sent her.

Even if it's a dubious thing to do, it seems to be 'legal' in the sense that you can order it, invoke your authority, and no one can stop you. "In the name of the king we're taking this house for the war."

[Crowford]

There's little they can do about it. Neither Pentos nor Ibben are going to make that big of a fuss about one of their respective ships being nicked by the Night's Watch, even if they indeed sink and never return. Sure, if this happens all the time, then traders will soon stop landing at Eastwatch. But it's a risk they face in every port around the world.