Could the Dothraki take all of Westeros with 300000 men?

[the storm king returns]

I agree that feeding there army isnt that hard, they are all on horse so can travel vast distances for food and water, and as someone else stated they are Nomatic in nature and would not be In one ares very long.

[Lion Of The Night]

No, he did not. Genghis never encountered heavy cavalry. As for his successors, they didn't encounter knights in significant numbers during their invasion of Hungary and Poland, either. Most of the armies they defeated were poorly equipped infantry.

Battle of Mohi

Anywho, I tend to believe that the mongols would not have taken over europe should they attack, mostly because of terrain and the european style and numbers of fortifications.

Besides the vast majority of any medieval army was infantry. Heavy armed knights were a small fraction. That said they would be hard to kill and although I would suspect european casualties to be high at the beginning, they would be able to adapt.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Rivers, forests, mountains, hills, all that allows to nail them down.

And yes, farmland is actually bad for horses. Because while grass grows most of the year, grain doesn't.

For a clever commander yes to bottleneck them , but if neither commander is stupid then the more mobile force has the choice of where battle is fought and if its fought.

grass for the horses isnt going to be an issue (unless its winter) and the men can eat the bounty of the reach, westerlands, riverlands etc..theres only so much the lords can take into castles and burn in preperation.

[Fanless Mace]

Good luck getting even 10k of them on a boat, and their horses. They have no interest nor desire to go anywhere they can't gallop to.

[hodorisfaclessman]

...and only so far you can ride in a day.

The same goes for walking too though

[Universal Sword Donor]

I agree with BBE. Just getting that many Dothraki over to Westeros is a logistical nightmare and almost an impossibility. 300,000 Dothraki might leave Essos, but that number almost certainly wouldn't make it over. A good chunk of the ships would be taken out by the weather or by Westerosi naval forces.

I think the one factor people underestimate in Westeros is the terrain. The Dothraki have thrived in a steppe environment, which provides ample feeding grounds for the horses and little in the way of geographic barriers to the hordes. But Westeros's environment isn't like that.

The Riverlands, with all the ... rivers ... would be a bitch to navigate with a huge number of horses if you weren't familiar with the geography. The Stormlands don't have much fertile grazing ground. Dorne is full of mountains and deserts. The Vale is mountainous and the Dothraki would be pretty useless at sieging the Eyrie. The Iron Islands are, uh, islands. The North is absolutely huge and its capital is far inland, meaning you'd need to set up long supply lines, and good luck with it in the winter. The Westerlands are rocky, which would probably result in a ton of lame horses if the Dothraki tried to cover it en mass. The Reach is probably the most hospitable region in terms of geography, but also home to the most knights capable of running the Dothraki off.

That would be hilarious to see them land somewhere like the Saltpans and not really be able to go anywhere else since they can't/won't cross large rivers. It would suck for everyone in that area but it would be "interesting" to see them try to force the Ruby Ford or the Twins.

[Universal Sword Donor]

The same goes for walking too though

Yes but walking implies that you don't have multiple horses to feed and that your supply train is keeping up with you. An army that size on horse would starve if the crops weren't ready to harvest.

[Universal Sword Donor]

For anyone interested and nerdy like me, this is an interesting quick read on the logistics of medieval armies:

http://usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh381/Medieval%20Logistics.htm

[Lion Of The Night]

I agree that feeding there army isnt that hard, they are all on horse so can travel vast distances for food and water, and as someone else stated they are Nomatic in nature and would not be In one ares very long.

Graned I am taking these numbers from a Roman Legion, but they should be close enough...

The diet would be mostly grain but that would amount to 450,000 kg of grain (1.5kg per soldier).... PER DAY!

That is not including meat, or wine, or fodder for their horses...

An army of that size is a locust plague, and would eat themselves to defeat before too long, especially as the further they go the more food would be brought into fortresses and or be destroyed via scortched earth policies.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Yes but walking implies that you don't have multiple horses to feed and that your supply train is keeping up with you. An army that size on horse would starve if the crops weren't ready to harvest.

If they follow most nomad forces then they will be more mobile than their enemies and easier to supply than a infantry based force, the men being able to travel light and even feed of the land keeping the horses grazed on grass.

Every scrap of food, livestock or grass that isnt burnt or gathered up is theirs to take basicaly unless you can pre guess and place infantry where they will be

[Universal Sword Donor]

If they follow most nomad forces then they will be more mobile than their enemies and easier to supply than a infantry based force, the men being able to travel light and even feed of the land keeping the horses grazed on grass.

Every scrap of food, livestock or grass that isnt burnt or gathered up is theirs to take basicaly

And their won't be enough of it, like not even close to enough. Look at the estimates in the link I posted, then multiply it by about 30 or so because there's a reason why medieval armies were not a massive as the one proposed in the thread.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If they follow most nomad forces then they will be more mobile than their enemies and easier to supply than a infantry based force, the men being able to travel light and even feed of the land keeping the horses grazed on grass.

Every scrap of food, livestock or grass that isnt burnt or gathered up is theirs to take basicaly unless you can pre guess and place infantry where they will be

Perhaps, but that doesn't do them much good on a terrain without much fodder, or when lords gather up all the produce and food sources in an area, the way the Blackfish did to deprive the Freys and Lannisters at Riverrun. And horses are pretty resource-heavy, when you consider that, in theory, each of the 300,000 Dothraki in this scenario will be showing up with at least one horse.

[Lion Of The Night]

Perhaps, but that doesn't do them much good on a terrain without much fodder, or when lords gather up all the produce and food sources in an area, the way the Blackfish did to deprive the Freys and Lannisters at Riverrun. And horses are pretty resource-heavy, when you consider that, in theory, each of the 300,000 Dothraki in this scenario will be showing up with at least one horse.

Calvery based armies would usually have a train of several horses each. Most people don't realize this but horses are not tireless. You can only ride them for so long before they tire, go further then that they can go lame or even die. Add in the horses needed for packs...

[Lion Of The Night]

Dont forget that any army will have camp followers swelling the numbers up further. A Dothraki army of 300,000 would end up being around a half a million people.

No, the army will starve themselves into defeat.

[OldGimletEye]

Perhaps, but that doesn't do them much good on a terrain without much fodder, or when lords gather up all the produce and food sources in an area, the way the Blackfish did to deprive the Freys and Lannisters at Riverrun. And horses are pretty resource-heavy, when you consider that, in theory, each of the 300,000 Dothraki in this scenario will be showing up with at least one horse.

And probably, each Dothraki would actually need 3 to 4 horses to be effective at their maximum level. If I recall, correctly, the Mongols, whom the Dothraki are very loosely based, had about 3 to 4 horses for each warrior. I suppose theoretically horses could be found in Westeros, but the Dothraki probably require a special breed of horse.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Dont forget that any army will have camp followers swelling the numbers up further. A Dothraki army of 300,000 would end up being around a half a million people.

No, the army will starve themselves into defeat.

The only way they wouldn't starve to death is if they died from dysentery from the dirty water. 300K - 900K horses are going to produce a lot of horse poop.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I agree that feeding there army isnt that hard, they are all on horse so can travel vast distances for food and water, and as someone else stated they are Nomatic in nature and would not be In one ares very long.

So what? They are too many. About 20,000 Westerosi soldiers is basically the maximum to be fed reliably in a single spot. A whole bunch of them are infantry.

For a clever commander yes to bottleneck them , but if neither commander is stupid then the more mobile force has the choice of where battle is fought and if its fought.

grass for the horses isnt going to be an issue (unless its winter) and the men can eat the bounty of the reach, westerlands, riverlands etc..theres only so much the lords can take into castles and burn in preperation.

Gras is an issue because 300,000 horses would need about 1,500 tons per day and as much grain. Working horses need about 50% of their feed in grain and other high energy feed.

That stuff doesn't grow in such masses.

The same goes for walking too though

...which requires about 10% of the food and feed than riding. And men eat way more types of food than horses. Ever tried to feed a goose to a horse? Or even a turnip.

[Lion Of The Night]

And probably, each Dothraki would actually need 3 to 4 horses to be effective at their maximum level. If I recall, correctly, the Mongols, whom the Dothraki are very loosely based, had about 3 to 4 horses for each warrior. I suppose theoretically horses could be found in Westeros, but the Dothraki probably require a special breed of horse.

Yeah, like I mentioned.

If we take the mongol example, their horses would be smaller but have greater endurance, European horses were larger, to carry the weight of a fully armored knight.

It would stand to reason the Dothraki would take captured horses, and not have a problem with them.

[hodorisfaclessman]

And their won't be enough of it, like not even close to enough. Look at the estimates in the link I posted, then multiply it by about 30 or so because there's a reason why medieval armies were not a massive as the one proposed in the thread.

That assumes they all stay in one huge unit and stay in one place bear in mind the sheer scale westeros is supposed to be

[Lion Of The Night]

Gras is an issue because 300,000 horses would need about 1,500 tons per day and as much grain. Working horses need about 50% of their feed in grain and other high energy feed.

Again something that most people dont realize, horses need more than just grass.