Do you think the Unsullied can withstand a heavy horse charge?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I think the unsullied obviously have the discipline which is the difficult part. The rest is just equipment. Why shouldn't they be able to build pikes (once they are actually somewhere with trees) and wear heavy plate?

[King of the Rock]

I don't see why not. The Unsullied do not hesitate or falter. They can stay in formation for as long as necessary, they won't fear an armoured cavalry, no matter what the numbers are, and that's a cavalry's main weapon. A cavalry's weakness is a wall of pikes. That's pretty much the Unsullied's speciality.

[Berkilak]

I don't see why not. The Unsullied do not hesitate or falter. They can stay in formation for as long as necessary, they won't fear an armoured cavalry, no matter what the numbers are, and that's a cavalry's main weapon. A cavalry's weakness is a wall of pikes. That's pretty much the Unsullied's speciality.

By reality's reckoning, there's nearly 2,000 years difference in both technology and tactics between them. Their specialty is running off unarmoured Dothraki and disorganized mercenaries. An armoured cavalry charge is an entirely different beast.

I think the unsullied obviously have the discipline which is the difficult part. The rest is just equipment. Why shouldn't they be able to build pikes (once they are actually somewhere with trees) and wear heavy plate?

Because they don't have the training, technology and materials to do so.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Most definitely. They have been well drilled for this type of scenario

[Bright Blue Eyes]

No. Not even heads-on. Wrong equipment, and the phalanx is unlikely to to be deep enough.

But why would the knights charge their stupid, outdated phalanx head-on? Take them in the flank, take them in the rear. Or dismount.

However I don't think it is likely that riders would have much success in manoeuvring their horses into dense infantry formations. Maybe I'm wrong on this one, BBE will probably have something to say on the topic, but I simply don't know of any cases where standing intact formations of men were destroyed by cavalry charges.

Actually heavy cavalry could charge against the most disciplined and all around best pike formations (something the Unsullied wouldn't even recognize) and win. But it would be a pyrrhic victory like none other and require Dothraki-level of stupidity coupled with more than suicidal morale.

I don't see why not. The Unsullied do not hesitate or falter. They can stay in formation for as long as necessary, they won't fear an armoured cavalry, no matter what the numbers are, and that's a cavalry's main weapon. A cavalry's weakness is a wall of pikes. That's pretty much the Unsullied's speciality.

Actually the cavalry's main weapon is speed, mass and therefore impact energy. Each knight crashing into the phalanx would turn two or three Unsullied into shish-kebab with his lance and send another four to five flying at ~30 km/h.

[Berkilak]

Most definitely. They have been well drilled for this type of scenario

Against Dothraki. Not armoured cavalry.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

No. Not even heads-on. Wrong equipment, and the phalanx is unlikely to to be deep enough.

But why would the knights charge their stupid, outdated phalanx head-on? Take them in the flank, take them in the rear. Or dismount.

Actually heavy cavalry could charge against the most disciplined and all around best pike formations (something the Unsullied wouldn't even recognize) and win. But it would be a pyrrhic victory like none other and require Dothraki-level of stupidity coupled with more than suicidal morale.

Actually the cavalry's main weapon is speed, mass and therefore impact energy. Each knight crashing into the phalanx would turn two or three Unsullied into shish-kebab with his lance and send another four to five flying at ~30 km/h.

I just always pictured the Unsullied guarding a castle or have a wall at their rear. Not sure why I just realized that.

In an open field they would be vulnerable because they would move slow to keep formation...and they would only be strong in the front.

[Garbad]

I simply don't know of any cases where standing intact formations of men were destroyed by cavalry charges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adrianople

After the invention of the stirrup, plate mail, and lances heavy force could punch right through conventional spear walls. This was a common feature of most medieval battles, and it wasn't until improvements in thrusting weapons and so forth that infantry could withstand heavy cavalry again. Even then, it was chancy even for the best infantry. The sheer weight of a lance charge is not to be underestimated. Short spears or swords just won't stop it.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Against barbarian hordes and stork-men. They don't hold a candle to Westerosi cavalry. This isn't video game logic where X unit is weak to Y unit and strong against Z unit - a heavily armoured cavalry charge trumps most things in the Middle Ages, and wouldn't even break a sweat against a group wielding technology and tactics about 1,500 years less advanced.

I beg to differ. This is exactly video game logic, when if one side has vastly superior numbers, then the opposing team gets a shadowbinder capable of spawning an unstoppable magic ninja saboteur.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

The Unsullied are not equipped to face an armoured cavalry charge. Their "spikes" would simply shatter, their phalanx would ensure that they're all totally trampled into a single gooey mess.

Do we know that it would shatter?

PS: a typo. I was thinking spear and pike, and this is what I got. You stay classy San Diego.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

I would imagine using lances in a downward manner against reinforced shielding at speed similar to attempting a pole vault, so its still the unsullied

[Garbad]

I pictured the "Three spears" that the unsullied master to be like the three pilae that the roman legionaries would carry. IE, ~5 feet long, suitable for throwing, flexible in a small fight, and serviceable in a shield wall but not a true phalanx.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I just always pictured the Unsullied guarding a castle or have a wall at their rear. Not sure why I just realized that.

In an open field they would be vulnerable because they would move slow to keep formation...and they would only be strong in the front.

Because that's exactly what happened at Quohor.

I would imagine using lances in a downward manner against reinforced shielding at speed similar to attempting a pole vault, so its still the unsullied

More like a car at city speeds driving into a group of idiots carrying wooden boards. There will be people sent flying, but it's not the knight.

[King of the Rock]

Actually the cavalry's main weapon is speed, mass and therefore impact energy. Each knight crashing into the phalanx would turn two or three Unsullied into shish-kebab with his lance and send another four to five flying at ~30 km/h.

I.e. momentum. Depends on how many knights we're talking about, but they'll just end up crashing against a wall of pikes.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I.e. momentum. Depends on how many knights we're talking about, but they'll just end up crashing against a wall of pikes.

Yes, if there are enough enemies. A lot of enemies. Like twenty or thirty times their number.

Of course actual pikes (which the Unsullied don't possess) will reduce that somewhat, redirecting the energy into the ground and into the horses themselves. Reducing the required advantage to maybe ten times their number.

[Black Crow]

Historically good infantry who are prepared to close their ranks and stay closed up will always withstand cavalry, whether heavy or otherwise. Cavalry charges against infantry only work if the infantry in question are either flaky to begin with and start to break apart when threatened, or if they are torn up by archers or infantry beforehand.

The mediaeval Scots were spearmen, not pikemen, and in general terms were not heavily armoured. At Falkirk in 1298 they withstood a succession of cavalry charges by armoured knights armed with lances, repulsing them with almost contemptuous ease and inflicting significant casualties. Eventually the cavalry were pulled back while the archers were brought up to break the Scots formations apart and only then were the cavalry able to go in successfully.

At Stirling Bridge and at Bannockburn there was an absolute massacre of the English heavy cavalry. Not only were the initial English cavalry attacks halted but then the Scots advanced, slowly, keeping their formation tightly locked up and then the English really were in trouble because one thing a horse is not good at is walking backwards. In both battles the cavalry were unable to even attempt to use their weight and momentum, but they were being pushed back first on their own infantry supports and then ultimately into the river.

So yes, in answer to the OP I would expect that the Unsullied would do very well against armoured heavy cavalry because they possess the all important training and discipline to stand against them.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Because that's exactly what happened at Quohor.

More like a car at city speeds driving into a group of idiots carrying wooden boards. There will be people sent flying, but it's not the knight.

Knights sitting inside their horses? With an armoured man a horse would max out around 20 mph. Pole vault ensues

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Historically good infantry who are prepared to close their ranks and stay closed up will always withstand cavalry, whether heavy or otherwise. Cavalry charges against infantry only work if the infantry in question are either flaky to begin with and start to break apart when threatened, or if they are torn up by archers or infantry beforehand.

The mediaeval Scots were spearmen, not pikemen, and in general terms were not heavily armoured. At Falkirk in 1298 they withstood a succession of cavalry charges by armoured knights armed with lances, repulsing them with almost contemptuous ease and inflicting significant casualties. Eventually the cavalry were pulled back while the archers were brought up to break the Scots formations apart and only then were the cavalry able to go in successfully.

At Stirling Bridge and at Bannockburn there was an absolute massacre of the English heavy cavalry. Not only were the initial English cavalry attacks halted but then the Scots advanced, slowly, keeping their formation tightly locked up and then the English really were in trouble because one thing a horse is not good at is walking backwards. In both battles the cavalry were unable to even attempt to use their weight and momentum, but they were being pushed back first on their own infantry supports and then ultimately into the river.

So yes, in answer to the OP I would expect that the Unsullied would do very well against armoured heavy cavalry because they possess the all important training and discipline to stand against them.

Or if the cavalry is prepared to take the losses. Crippling losses. Worse than crippling losses.

The medieval scots introduced/developed the pike, by the way. In these very battles. And the schiltron, a circular formation and a vast improvement over the (relatively thin) straight phalanx.

And armor in this special case is of little benefit. Tactics, discipline and pikes are all three needed. The Unsullied have only one.

Knights sitting inside their horses? With an armoured man a horse would max out around 20 mph. Pole vault ensues

Get a decent saddle. Or try to explain how the horse would polevault. Yes, actuall warsaddles were almost as good as welding the knight and the horse together with some decent steel bars.

[Berkilak]

Situations like this never happened in reality because one side was about two-thousand years more advanced than the other - inherently better, through tactics, technology and individual training. A phalanx to armoured cavalry is like armoured cavalry to a battalion of tanks. There's just no contest, here.

[King of the Rock]

Yes, if there are enough enemies. A lot of enemies. Like twenty or thirty times their number.

Of course actual pikes (which the Unsullied don't possess) will reduce that somewhat, redirecting the energy into the ground and into the horses themselves. Reducing the required advantage to maybe ten times their number.

Well, I'm assuming we're talking about a few thousand Unsullied taking on a charge from a few hundred mounted knights.

Again, I'm assuming the Unsullied have pikes. If they're stuck with spears, then yes, their would have to be a lot of Unsullied, but they could still withstand a cavalry charge. As mentioned before, this is where the cavalry's secret weapon comes into play. That being intimidation. Unfortunately, the Unsullied don't fall prey to intimidation. This question really comes down to "can a heavy cavalry charge break though an unwavering wall of spears". The answer depends on the numbers on both sides.