Gerg Sknab Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There seems to be two competing versions of the events of Robert's Rebellion ...Wiki...Summerhall...Ashford...Battle of the Bells...Ruby ForkTWoIaF...Summerhall...Battle of the Bells...Ashford...Ruby ForkNow of course TWoIaF was writ by some lickspittle Baratheon supporter to glorify Robert's prowess and to reduce any significant contribution made by his allies...So I suppose my question is how much relevance should be given to the events as related to TWoIaF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Ashford was before the bells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Ashford was before the bells Not the way I read TWoIaF......see page 128...It discusses Stoney Sept then the weddings at Riverrun and next paragraph "The Royalist forces were left reeling and scattered by such victories though they did their best to rally. The Kingsguard were dispatched to recover the remnant of Connington's force and Rhaegar returned from the south to take command of the new levies being raised in the Crownlands. And after a partial victory at Ashford which led to Robert's withdrawal, the Stormlands were left open to Lord Tyrell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 It doesn't matter Ashford was before the unification of the rebel army, that happened at the bells, after the bells only the battle of the trident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 It doesn't matter Ashford was before the unification of the rebel army, that happened at the bells, after the bells only the battle of the trident Then in fact you are telling me that the events in TWoIaF "The Fall of the Dragons" (pages 122 to 129) should be ignored as they are biased in favour of the Baratheon version of events..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Then in fact you are telling me that the events in TWoIaF "The Fall of the Dragons" (pages 122 to 129) should be ignored as they are biased in favour of the Baratheon version of events..... Or the explanation wasn't meant to be linear at that point, which makes far more sense in the context of the discussion by Yandel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Or the explanation wasn't meant to be linear at that point, which makes far more sense in the context of the discussion by Yandel. I could agree, except for the "And" which linguistically makes it linear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I could agree, except for the "And" which linguistically makes it linear.... And the next paragraphs prove that it isn't. It's not a linear explanation. It's an amalgam. You might be the only person I've seen to actually dispute the order of battles. I mean there is literally no way the Battle of the Bells works from a historical or literary perspective if it happens before Ashford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_lost_arryn19 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 At the beginning the me aster literally says "I don't want to insult any one who was there and made contributions so I'm only going to speak if Robert." Or something along those lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connartist92 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 One thing that bugged me about the World book, was that in the individual sections things weren't always written in chronological order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 OP, regardless of what is in TWOIAF, there is only 1 logical version of events. Robert lost Ashford, and was hidden in the town before the battle of the bells, he was hidden because he had lost... They won the battle of the bells and that combined all the rebel forces before the battle of the Trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 OP, regardless of what is in TWOIAF, there is only 1 logical version of events. Robert lost Ashford, and was hidden in the town before the battle of the bells, he was hidden because he had lost... They won the battle of the bells and that combined all the rebel forces before the battle of the Trident. Is there though? Say, Robert, was wounded in his single combat with Lord Fell at Summmerhall and ran to Stoney Sept to convalesce, that would change the scenario. Connington's host then would track Robert to the Bells initiating the battle. According to Yandel's version as written in TWoIaF Robert's bedraggled host then dispersed the Royalists (Stark and Tully were supposedly late to the fight). Robert being concerned the Stormlands was undefended and that 10,000 spears of Dorne were marching up the Boneway then force marches to Ashford whereupon his forces are defeated those of the Reach and must brake and run to reassemble at Riverrun for a push along the River Road to the King's Road...Then by lucky happenstance meets Rhaegar in single combat (this in the midst of a battle that included the better part of 100,000 men) at the Ruby Fork... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 That doesn't make sense why would Robert go from SH to The Riverlands, unite with the other rebels and then go alone with a host of less than 5000 go to face one of 10000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 That doesn't make sense why would Robert go from SH to The Riverlands, unite with the other rebels and then go alone with a host of less than 5000 go to face one of 10000? Because he is Robert, intelligence was never his strong suit.....You did notice I suggest he was wounded at Summerhall (not necessarily an outlandish assumption considering it was two battles in one day as well as a single combat with someone who must have considered himself at minimum a competent warrior)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No even in the books it is stated that Ashford was before, after ashford,Randyll went to siege SE and Robert runned to the Rivelands to join the rebels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 No even in the books it is stated that Ashford was before, after ashford,Randyll went to siege SE and Robert runned to the Rivelands to join the rebels And that is exactly my point two competing versions of the same events....Yandel's version seems to have merit if you consider the rebels were attempting a pincer movement...Ayrrn holding the crossroads ready to move south while Robert, Stark and Tully clearing the Stormlands, dispersing Tarly/Tyrell while holding Lweyn Martell and Dorne at bay then turning north up the King's Road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Stark and tully never were in the stormlands in the rebellion...Ned went home to convoke the vassals, he married with Cat to seal the alliance with the Tullys they both went to the Stoney sept to help Robert and after that was the trident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Stark and tully never were in the stormlands in the rebellion...Ned went home to convoke the vassals, he married with Cat to seal the alliance with the Tullys they both went to the Stoney sept to help Robert and after that was the trident Stark and Tully were at Stoney Sept...If Ashford happened after there is a good possibility they were there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No they weren't there isn't any reference about they being close to Ashford, there is no reference that Randyll beat Hoster or Ned only Robert and chronologically it doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerg Sknab Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 No they weren't there isn't any reference about they being close to Ashford, there is no reference that Randyll beat Hoster or Ned only Robert and chronologically it doesn't make sense Funny you should say that....there is no reference that Ashford took place before Stoney Sept either...only Wiki...Davos ASOS mentions Summerhall and the retreat back to Storm's End with Cafferen and Grandison and that Cafferen died at Ashford however there is no chronology....Tyrion ASOS only mentions Tyrell's reputation as being questionable with regards to Ashford again no chronology.... Please give me a specific reference placing Ashford prior to Stoney Sept other than Wiki... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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