The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones House Targaryen T-Shirt
Game of Thrones House Targaryen T-Shirt
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Where ever whores go


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
125 replies to this topic

#1 shadowbinding shoe

shadowbinding shoe

    Leafing through

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,734 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:03 AM

I got to thinking, where do whores go? Tysha is irredimeably soiled when Tyrion abandon her and would not have been able to restart her life as a decent woman in Westeros. The only option for her is the brothels and their ilk.

The most famous owner of whore-houses in Westeros is none other than Little-Finger-Baelish. He own half the whore-houses in King's Landing and has connections throughout the kingdom. Tysha would have naturally sank into his grasp.

To those who doubt it, we have a proof in a SoS Sansa chapter. LF tells Sansa about Tyrion's first marriage to make him more repelent to her. He says: Tyrion gave her to his family's guards when he got tired of her. This would probably be the story Tysha told him since she didn't know it was his father (Tywin) and not Tyrion who ordered the guards to rape especially since he joined in himself when they tired of her. I'm not sure if even Varys knows about Tyrion's marriage with Tysha but LF does.

So if Tyrion is looking for his first love he should return to KL and start asking questions in the brothels LF is so proud of.

#2 The hairy bear

The hairy bear

    Honey in the summer air!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,166 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:39 AM

The main problem with your theory, as I see it, is the timing. Tysha was the first girl Tyrion bedded, when he was 13. At this time, Petys Baelish was only 21 and still hadnt been brought to King's Landing by Jon Arryn.

But perhaps Tysha entered in some brothel and was 'bought' for Littlefinger afterwards.

Edited by The hairy bear, 24 May 2007 - 08:41 AM.


#3 Happy Ent

Happy Ent

    Godfather of the Weirwoods

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,362 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:49 AM

A nice theory on this board is that we already met Tysha; she is the Sailor's Wife in a Braavosi brothel, the Happy Port. Her daughter is even called Lanna.

#4 McCracken

McCracken

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 318 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 09:13 AM

A nice theory on this board is that we already met Tysha; she is the Sailor's Wife in a Braavosi brothel, the Happy Port. Her daughter is even called Lanna.

BUt her husband was a "Sailor!!!!" who sailed away and never returned. UNless you're saying she married again after Tyrion

Edited by King in the North., 24 May 2007 - 09:13 AM.


#5 Worthy Dane

Worthy Dane

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 270 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 09:23 AM

I'm thoroughly unconvinced by either of these theories. I don't think we've met Tysha yet, and I doubt that we will. By the way, I don't understand why a daughter named Lanna supports the idea that she is Tysha. Perhaps I missed something?

#6 Mezeh

Mezeh

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,456 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 09:36 AM

BUt her husband was a "Sailor!!!!" who sailed away and never returned. UNless you're saying she married again after Tyrion



Actually no one knows who was her husband she lost him before she first appeared in Braavos and she was about 14 then now twice that age. This definitely fit to Tysha and her daughter name and hair also point to connection with Lannister and her obsession with marriages as well. The only problem with the theory is that her love is dead and Tyrion is still alive. Unless the girl that use blood magic misunderstood something this breaks a theory.

Yet for Tysha it would be logical to get as far as possible from Castle Rock and Lord Tywin. So it quite possible that she went to Free cities.

#7 Knight of the Teabags

Knight of the Teabags

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 643 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 09:51 AM

The other possiblity of a Lannister connection to the 'Sailor's wife' (and arguably slightly more probable than Tyrion due to his very brief description in the family trees) would be Tywin's youngest brother Gerion who is recorded as being 'lost at sea'. Now I believe there is a brief reference or two in the text (likely in an AGOT Tyrion POV) that says Gerion was something of an adventurer who went to find the long lost Lannister valyrian blade 'Brightroar' and never returned. Having a child by a whore is also within Gerion's character because to date he is the only Lannister with an acknownledged bastard, Joy Hill.

#8 Mezeh

Mezeh

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,456 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 10:15 AM

There are some troubles with Gerion’s theory.

First Sailor’s wife talked about her husband. It is unlikely that Lannister would marry a common girl.
Second is time. Joy is eleven years old and Lanna is fourteen. So Gerion was lost several years later then Sailor’s wife first appeared in Braavos.

#9 Tysha

Tysha

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 631 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 11:05 AM

I got to thinking, where do whores go? Tysha is irredimeably soiled when Tyrion abandon her and would not have been able to restart her life as a decent woman in Westeros. The only option for her is the brothels and their ilk.


That's one hell of a leap!

Whatever Tywin may have thought of her, Tysha was not a whore. When she was sent on her way, she had a fair bit of money. Provided she didn't toss the whole lot into the nearest river (which I'm sure would have been very tempting but not very sensible), she had the means to survive for a little while and get very, very far away. No, she'd probably never make a nice, respectable marriage but that doesn't necessarily mean her only other option is a life of prostitution!

To those who doubt it, we have a proof in a SoS Sansa chapter. LF tells Sansa about Tyrion's first marriage to make him more repelent to her. He says: Tyrion gave her to his family's guards when he got tired of her. This would probably be the story Tysha told him since she didn't know it was his father (Tywin) and not Tyrion who ordered the guards to rape especially since he joined in himself when they tired of her.


That's conjecture and I don't agree with it.

Tywin made Tyrion sit and watch while all the guards raped her so it's fair to assume that Tywin was also there watching, to make sure Tyrion obeyed him and to see the results of his horrific handiwork. And it's also therefore fair to assume that Tysha saw that it was Tywin who was behind the whole thing, Tywin who had told Tyrion she was a whore, and Tywin who gave him the money and ordered him to take her. Nothing Tyrion has ever said or thought about Tysha leads me to believe he taunted her or called her a whore or indeed did anything which would have made her believe that he was behind the gang rape.

I also reject the idea that Tysha is the Sailor's Wife. For one thing Lanna, at 14, is a couple of years too old to be Tyrion and Tysha's child - he met Tysha when he was 13 and is 23 at the start of a AGoT, so any child of theirs would be 11 or 12 by the time we meet the Sailor's Wife. For another - Tyrion/Tysha shipper though I am - I highly doubt Tysha has spent the past decade pining over Tyrion after what happened!

I'm sure we're going to meet Tysha again, or at the very least find out what happened to her. She's been too much a part of the series to not get any closure. I hope her story will have a happy ending but I don't think we've met her yet.

Edited by Tysha, 24 May 2007 - 11:07 AM.


#10 redcandle17

redcandle17

    Keeper of Sandor's white cloak

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 952 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 11:57 AM

I got to thinking, where do whores go? Tysha is irredimeably soiled when Tyrion abandon her and would not have been able to restart her life as a decent woman in Westeros. The only option for her is the brothels and their ilk.


Really? Perhaps if Tysha had nothing in the world she would have no choice but to work as a whore. But she had the countless silver coins the guards "paid" her and the gold coin Tyrion "paid" her. What's to stop her from travelling to another part of Westeros and marrying some farmer who doesn't know who she is?

#11 L'Sana

L'Sana

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 943 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:00 PM

I also reject the idea that Tysha is the Sailor's Wife. For one thing Lanna, at 14, is a couple of years too old to be Tyrion and Tysha's child - he met Tysha when he was 13 and is 23 at the start of a AGoT, so any child of theirs would be 11 or 12 by the time we meet the Sailor's Wife.


My math says differently. Jaime was "eight or nine" when Tyrion was born. Let's say 8, and in fact, make it just barely 8.

Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys to end the war. Say it was an old 17, just a couple months shy of 18. This would make Tyrion almost 10 at the end of Robert's Rebellion.

He meets and marries Tysha when he is 13, so 3 years later. Any child of theirs would have to be born 9 months later, let's round up and say a year.

At the start of GoT, it was 15 years since Robert's Rebellion, meaning 11 years since Tyrion's hypothetical daughter was born.

At least 2 years passes over the course of the series, meaning our girl would be at least 13.

A bit more time passes in Braavos, giving her a chance to turn 14.

It's very tight, no question, and this isn't by any means a conclusive argument. I'm just saying it's possible.

#12 The hairy bear

The hairy bear

    Honey in the summer air!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,166 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:05 PM

Although certainly Tysha had many options besides prostitution, if we assume that "wherever whores go" was an answer to Tyrinos's question rather that a rebuffal, we should be looking for her in some brothel.

It could be justified that Tywin didn't want Tysha around the Westerlands. He wanted to keep his son's marriage a secret for not shaming the family, and Tysha could always spread the story. Tywin did not believe in half measures, so she had to be sent away to some brothel on King's Landing, Oldtown, or the Free Cities.

If she was sent to the Free Cities, Lys is famed for its sexual slaves. A shame the only Lysene girl we know is Doreah, who is too young.

I don't understand why a daughter named Lanna supports the idea that she is Tysha. Perhaps I missed something?

Lanna for Lannister. As when that whore named her daughter Barra for Robert Baratheon.

#13 The_BlauerDragon

The_BlauerDragon

    Sworn Sword of Dischord and Minister of Malcontent

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,640 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:09 PM

Really? Perhaps if Tysha had nothing in the world she would have no choice but to work as a whore. But she had the countless silver coins the guards "paid" her and the gold coin Tyrion "paid" her. What's to stop her from travelling to another part of Westeros and marrying some farmer who doesn't know who she is?


Put yourself in her shoes... Do you honestly think that she'd have wanted anything to do with any of that coin? I buy the theory of her throwing it in the nearest river... and running in fear. That being said, I don't think that she's the sailor's wife. I think that she lives somewhere in Meereen, and that we will see her again. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a happy reunion.

#14 redcandle17

redcandle17

    Keeper of Sandor's white cloak

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 952 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:12 PM

Put yourself in her shoes... Do you honestly think that she'd have wanted anything to do with any of that coin? I buy the theory of her throwing it in the nearest river... and running in fear. That being said, I don't think that she's the sailor's wife. I think that she lives somewhere in Meereen, and that we will see her again. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a happy reunion.


I am putting myself in her shoes and that's why I don't think it's likely she would willingly become a whore if she had other options. She was a crofter's daughter; I think she would appreciate the value of money and not waste it on gestures.

#15 L'Sana

L'Sana

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 943 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:22 PM

To those who doubt it, we have a proof in a SoS Sansa chapter. LF tells Sansa about Tyrion's first marriage to make him more repelent to her. He says: Tyrion gave her to his family's guards when he got tired of her. This would probably be the story Tysha told him since she didn't know it was his father (Tywin) and not Tyrion who ordered the guards to rape especially since he joined in himself when they tired of her.


BTW, do you have an exact reference for this incident? I don't remember it, but I'd be interested in re-reading it.

I'm not sure if even Varys knows about Tyrion's marriage with Tysha but LF does.


Not true. I don't think Tyrion's first marriage was exactly a secret, though it wasn't something talked about all that much. He mentioned it during an council session with both Varys and Littlefinger in attendance:

"He's thirteen, Cersei. The same age I was when I married."
"You shamed us all with that sorry incident..."


If they didn't know about it before, either LF or Varys could have asked around about the details afterwards.

#16 Jon Targaryen

Jon Targaryen

    Crouching Direwolf, Hidden Dragon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,399 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:35 PM

It's on p. 928 of the US mass-market paperback of ASOS. The Sansa chapter where she is at Petyr's home.

#17 Worthy Dane

Worthy Dane

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 270 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:44 PM

If she was sent to the Free Cities, Lys is famed for its sexual slaves. A shame the only Lysene girl we know is Doreah, who is too young.


Doreah was sweet. I only wish she had lived until Dany entered her "experimental" phase.

Lanna for Lannister. As when that whore named her daughter Barra for Robert Baratheon.


Indeed, I did miss that. That's the best piece of evidence I have heard for this theory.

#18 Tysha

Tysha

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 631 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:55 PM

My math says differently. Jaime was "eight or nine" when Tyrion was born. Let's say 8, and in fact, make it just barely 8.

Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys to end the war. Say it was an old 17, just a couple months shy of 18. This would make Tyrion almost 10 at the end of Robert's Rebellion.

He meets and marries Tysha when he is 13, so 3 years later. Any child of theirs would have to be born 9 months later, let's round up and say a year.

At the start of GoT, it was 15 years since Robert's Rebellion, meaning 11 years since Tyrion's hypothetical daughter was born.

At least 2 years passes over the course of the series, meaning our girl would be at least 13.

A bit more time passes in Braavos, giving her a chance to turn 14.

It's very tight, no question, and this isn't by any means a conclusive argument. I'm just saying it's possible.


Maths isn't my strongest subject but the way I work it out, Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys, that's canon. It's been 14 years since the end of the war at the start of AGoT, making Jaime 31. Tyrion being '8 or 9' years younger would be either 22 or 23; however as he says the mare that gets killed after he's taken captive was a present from Jaime for his 23rd name day, we know he was 23. He was 13 when he met Tysha, which means ten years have passed since then at the start of AGoT. Depending on when this hypothetical child would have been born, s/he would be 9 or 10, more likely 9 given that the better part of a year would have to pass between Tyrion and Tysha meeting and the baby being born. By the time we meet the Sailor's Wife therefore, the child is probably 11, 12 at the most.

Anyway, I still don't buy that Tysha would be pining after Tyrion!

Put yourself in her shoes... Do you honestly think that she'd have wanted anything to do with any of that coin? I buy the theory of her throwing it in the nearest river... and running in fear. That being said, I don't think that she's the sailor's wife. I think that she lives somewhere in Meereen, and that we will see her again. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a happy reunion.


Like I said in my first post, I'm sure getting rid of that money would have been very tempting on an emotional level, given how she came about it, but it would also have been very stupid. Without that money she has absolutely nothing. With it she has a chance - she can feed herself, pay for a room in an inn for a few nights, buy passage on a boat out of Westeros and away from the clutches of Tywin. If I was in her situation, I'd keep the money.

Edited by Tysha, 24 May 2007 - 01:11 PM.


#19 L'Sana

L'Sana

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 943 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 01:14 PM

Maths isn't my strongest subject but the way I work it out, Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys, that's canon. It's been 14 years since the end of the war at the start of AGoT, making Jaime 31.


I could have sworn it was 15 and not 14; however, given that Robb is 14 at the start of the books, I'll say that you may be closer to the truth here than I am.

Tyrion being '8 or 9' years younger would be either 22 or 23; however as he says the mare that gets killed after he's taken captive was a present from Jaime for his 23rd name day, we know he was 23.


This means that Tyrion was at least 23 at the start of the books. The mare could have been a gift a year or even two years ago. It depends on how young an eight Jaime was when Tyrion was born and how old a 17 he was when he killed Aerys.

So between these two, we have about two years of wiggle room, which is why I get 14 and not 12 as the oldest possible age for Tyrion's daughter. IF the end of the rebellion was closer to 15 years than 14, and IF Tyrion was about 10 by the end of it, then it's possible for his daughter to be close to 14.

It's also possible that Lanna could be exaggerating her age by a bit, though I don't know why she would. Just because I can't come up with a reason, though, doesn't mean she can't.

#20 random5435

random5435

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 01:25 PM

Maybe not quite on the subject but is it ever mentioned that Tywin had the Tyrion/Tysha marriage dissolved? And how he would have made that possible.. pots of gold maybe?

If that was never done and was forgotten then Tyrion's marriage to Sansa would be a sham since he is already married. LF seems to know about that former marriage maybe that's why he is so sure of his plan?