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Where ever whores go


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I could have sworn it was 15 and not 14; however, given that Robb is 14 at the start of the books, I'll say that you may be closer to the truth here than I am.

Cat thinks in her first chapter of AGoT that it's been 15 years since she married Ned, which was shortly after Brandon and Rickard were killed. So it's been 15 years since the war started but closer to 14 years (which is how old both Robb and Jon are) since it all ended and Jaime killed Aerys.

This means that Tyrion was at least 23 at the start of the books. The mare could have been a gift a year or even two years ago. It depends on how young an eight Jaime was when Tyrion was born and how old a 17 he was when he killed Aerys.

If Jaime is now 31 and Tyrion is 8 or 9 years younger than him, that makes Tyrion 22 or 23, but the mare clues us in to the fact that he is in fac 23. You could possibly stretch the months to their limit and say that Jaime was almost 18 when he killed Aerys and that it's been, say, 14 years and 3 months since the war ended, and Tyrion recently turned 24, but that still only leaves 11 years maximum since he and Tysha met. Just shy of a year would have to pass between their meeting and a baby being born.

Besides, even if you can manipulate the numbers, I still don't believe that Tysha would be pining after Tyrion, which is the main reason I reject the 'Tysha is the Sailor's Wife' theory!

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Maybe not quite on the subject but is it ever mentioned that Tywin had the Tyrion/Tysha marriage dissolved? And how he would have made that possible.. pots of gold maybe?

If that was never done and was forgotten then Tyrion's marriage to Sansa would be a sham since he is already married. LF seems to know about that former marriage maybe that's why he is so sure of his plan?

I can't remember if there's an exact quote anywhere but I'm pretty sure he had it annulled.

In fact, I'm not sure how legal the marriage would have been in the first place - Tyrion tells Bronn, "you'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon", implying that he got the septon to perform the ceremony under false pretenses. He also tells Sansa that their only witnesses were a pair of pigs! I don't know what the laws are in Westeros about that sort of thing, but it all sounds pretty dodgy to me!

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I can't remember if there's an exact quote anywhere but I'm pretty sure he had it annulled.

In fact, I'm not sure how legal the marriage would have been in the first place - Tyrion tells Bronn, "you'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon", implying that he got the septon to perform the ceremony under false pretenses. He also tells Sansa that their only witnesses were a pair of pigs! I don't know what the laws are in Westeros about that sort of thing, but it all sounds pretty dodgy to me!

The marriage ceremony was a little dodgy but what Tywin does is worse. He declares Tysha a whore, treats her as one and then pretends like it never happened. Tywin never gets the faith/septons involved in this. He tries to rewrite history and no one has the guts to say nay to him.

If anyone brought this up they would have a serious chance of annuling Tyrion's marriage to Sansa (assuming Tysha's is still alive.)

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If anyone brought this up they would have a serious chance of annuling Tyrion's marriage to Sansa (assuming Tysha's is still alive.)

Not if his marriage to Tysha had already been annulled (which I'm pretty sure Tywin would have made sure about) and/or had never been that legal to begin with!

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Besides, even if you can manipulate the numbers, I still don't believe that Tysha would be pining after Tyrion, which is the main reason I reject the 'Tysha is the Sailor's Wife' theory!

Oh, I quite agree. The fact that Tyrion isn't a sailor, isn't dead, and isn't someone Tysha is likely to be pining for should be enough to make Tysha = Sailor's Wife very unlikely. Unless we want to theorize that after Tyrion, Tysha married someone else who was a sailor who went off and died, and he's the one she's pining for.

I just wanted to point out that it's not beyond the realm of mathematics that Tyrion could be Lanna's father.

For a long time, my pet theory was that Lanna = Tyrion's daughter, but Sailor's Wife != Tysha. Alas, then I read the appendix and had to give up on that one...

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If anyone brought this up they would have a serious chance of annuling Tyrion's marriage to Sansa (assuming Tysha's is still alive.)

The wedding could also be set aside since Tyrion never consummated and Sansa Stark was probably tainted by Tommen after she killed Joffrey.

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And why exactley would anyone believe what the sailor's wife say's about her previous life? Do you think she is actually telling the truth? :bang:

She could be lying about having been married to a sailor.

Seems unlikely that she's been acting for more than a decade about pining for him.

The information that her love is dead came from Yna's blood magic, not the Sailor's Wife herself.

So my guess is that 2 out the 3 things that we know about the Sailor's Wife's past are probably true.

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The information that her love is dead came from Yna's blood magic, not the Sailor's Wife herself.

What makes you think that Yna is telling the truth? :cheers::smoking:

The only thing you can trust from a "whore" is that you are going to get off! :smileysex:

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What makes you think that Yna is telling the truth? :cheers::smoking:

Because I don't see any reason she would lie to Arya about that. There are reasons the Sailor's Wife would want to lie about her past, but I don't see any reason Yna would make up random prophesies about a random whore and tell them to the little girl who sold seafood.

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That's one hell of a leap!

Whatever Tywin may have thought of her, Tysha was not a whore. When she was sent on her way, she had a fair bit of money. Provided she didn't toss the whole lot into the nearest river (which I'm sure would have been very tempting but not very sensible), she had the means to survive for a little while and get very, very far away. No, she'd probably never make a nice, respectable marriage but that doesn't necessarily mean her only other option is a life of prostitution!

She has some money (assuming no one stole it from her on her way out of Castlery Rock) She's probably in shock and wants to get away. In her place I wouldn't go to Lannisport. The soldiers that raped her would likely visit the ale-houses in the town or be there on guard duty and could spread the tale about her in town. So she would flee by land out of the Lannister territories. What will she do? The money can support her for a few months but she would need to find work sooner or later. She has no special skills, a work as a tavern maid would be a natural position. Going by ship to the free cities is iffy in my opinion. She doesn't know their language, she would have no better chance to find work there then in Westeros and she would lose a lot of her money getting there and acclimatizing to the new culture. Tell me what you think she'll do.

Tywin made Tyrion sit and watch while all the guards raped her so it's fair to assume that Tywin was also there watching, to make sure Tyrion obeyed him and to see the results of his horrific handiwork. And it's also therefore fair to assume that Tysha saw that it was Tywin who was behind the whole thing, Tywin who had told Tyrion she was a whore, and Tywin who gave him the money and ordered him to take her. Nothing Tyrion has ever said or thought about Tysha leads me to believe he taunted her or called her a whore or indeed did anything which would have made her believe that he was behind the gang rape.

This is really hiding from the ugly truth. What does Tysha see from her POV? She goes to Castlery Rock with Tyrion. All of a sudden she is taken by Lannister soldiers and presented to her husband and his father in some hall. Tywin may give the orders but Tyrion doesn't cry out against any of it. He even takes part in it himself! The obvious conclusion is that Tyrion cared more for his family's blue blood than for her. His father must have scolded him for what he did and he admitted that she was worth less than a whore. Even a staunch loving heart would freeze after what she experienced and she has no reason to believe better of him. He may have been warm to her for the couple of days they were together but once he got back to her family the warmth dried up. Even if she figured the rape was Tywin's idea, Tyrion obviously approved of it from what she saw of him.

I'm sure we're going to meet Tysha again, or at the very least find out what happened to her. She's been too much a part of the series to not get any closure. I hope her story will have a happy ending but I don't think we've met her yet.

I've never said we met her. Only that she had contact with LF at some point. The where do whores go question means to me that she didn't have a happy ending. Whores don't usually have such endings. It's difficult for them to leave their trade (even if, like Tysha they were just raped or something) and once they get a little older their lives get a lot harder (unless they're savvy, which I don't think Tysha was, and manage establishments they were a part of.)

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What will she do? The money can support her for a few months but she would need to find work sooner or later. She has no special skills

And you know this how? She's a crofter's daughter - maybe she could work on a croft or a farm. Maybe she could get work as a scullery maid or a seamstress. She could do any number of things before becoming a prostitute, which would probably be the absolute last thing someone in her position would want to do.

This is really hiding from the ugly truth. What does Tysha see from her POV? She goes to Castlery Rock with Tyrion.

No she doesn't. Tyrion specifically tells Bronn he was too afraid to take Tysha back to Casterly Rock. Tywin found out about the marriage via the Septon. Tyrion had nothing to do with it.

All of a sudden she is taken by Lannister soldiers and presented to her husband and his father in some hall. Tywin may give the orders but Tyrion doesn't cry out against any of it.

Again, you know this how? This is pure conjecture and I think it's unlikely that it happened like this.

As far as Tysha knew, one day she was happy, living in her cottage by the sea, spending hours in bed with Tyrion kissing her nose, the next she's being taken to the guards' barracks. What happened in between time we don't know but it's fair to assume that Tyrion didn't see her between Jaime's 'confession' and the rape because a) he probably would have thought about that at some point, B) she may have been able to persuade him that Jaime was lying, and c) Tywin would probably have ensured they didn't meet again precisely to avoid her trying to persuade him that Jaime was lying.

Whatever happened between the cottage and the barracks, and whatever she was told, when she gets there Tywin is handing out the money to his guards, Tywin is there making sure Tyrion sees the whole thing, and Tywin is telling Tyrion what to do. It wouldn't take a genius to work out that Tyrion had been lied to or that Tywin was the one who had done the lying. And Tysha would have known that if Tywin found out about the marriage it would have meant bad news because Tyrion specifically didn't take her back to Casterly Rock because he was afraid of his father's reaction.

From Tysha's point of view, Tyrion believed his father's word before he believed in his love for her. That would hurt a lot but it's a far cry from her believing he sold her to his father's guards!

If you really think Tyrion sat there and taunted her or called her a whore, or even that he made no protest upon seeing her there, then clearly we have completely different views of the character. Until or unless GRRM gives us a more detailed flashback, we have no way of knowing for sure the exact details of that day. However, given Tyrion's continuing trauma about the incident, I'd say it's far more likely that the pain he felt throughout the whole thing was very obvious while it was happening. He gets tears in his eyes as he tells Bronn the story ten years later; I don't think it's a huge leap to guess he may have even cried at the time.

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Isnt there just the possibility that after the barracks incident, she could have just lead a "normal" life? Or at least, as normal as could be. She probably won't even play a role later on in a book or maybe will just be mentioned by someone.

I could be wrong in saying this but I thought Tysha was a whore that Jaime found and not a crofter's daughter as Tyrion thought? If she was a whore she would have probably gone back to a whorehouse. If not she probably just found another job somewhere far away enough from the Lannisters.

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Isnt there just the possibility that after the barracks incident, she could have just lead a "normal" life? Or at least, as normal as could be. She probably won't even play a role later on in a book or maybe will just be mentioned by someone.

I think we will see her again, or at least find out what actually happened to her (even if that's just finding out she's dead), simply because she's been such a huge part of Tyrion's story that it would be a bit crap to never get closure on that.

I could be wrong in saying this but I thought Tysha was a whore that Jaime found and not a crofter's daughter as Tyrion thought? If she was a whore she would have probably gone back to a whorehouse. If not she probably just found another job somewhere far away enough from the Lannisters.

That was the lie that Tywin ordered Jaime to tell because he wanted to break up the marriage, and that was what Tyrion believed for many years. However, at the end of ASOS, when he sets Tyrion free, Jaime admits that it was a lie and that Tysha was actually just a crofter's daughter who fell in love with Tyrion. That's why Tyrion went to see Tywin before he left and why he shot Tywin when he called Tysha a whore that last time!

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That was the lie that Tywin ordered Jaime to tell because he wanted to break up the marriage, and that was what Tyrion believed for many years. However, at the end of ASOS, when he sets Tyrion free, Jaime admits that it was a lie and that Tysha was actually just a crofter's daughter who fell in love with Tyrion. That's why Tyrion went to see Tywin before he left and why he shot Tywin when he called Tysha a whore that last time!

Is it certain that Tywin ordered Jaime to tell that lie? Or did Jaime make it up on his own?

The distinction could be important, because why Tywin broke up Tyrions marriage is still a mystery.

Its not because of an intense hatred of whores, because Tywin never did this to any other whores Tyrion has been with. And Tysha was not a whore in the first place, she was a crofters daughter. The idea that she was after his inheritance wont wash either, since Tywin was never going to let Tyrion inherit.

Best I can do at this point, is conjecture that Tywin didn't want Tyrion to have children in wedlock. This makes sense because he has doubts that Tyrion is his own. If Tyrion were to have a child that looked say very Targaryen, everyone would know.

The reason Tywin actually didn't care if Tyrion had a child with real whore, is because that child's parentage could be denied, since a whore obviously has other customers.

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Is it certain that Tywin ordered Jaime to tell that lie? Or did Jaime make it up on his own?

The distinction could be important, because why Tywin broke up Tyrions marriage is still a mystery.

Its not because of an intense hatred of whores, because Tywin never did this to any other whores Tyrion has been with. And Tysha was not a whore in the first place, she was a crofters daughter. The idea that she was after his inheritance wont wash either, since Tywin was never going to let Tyrion inherit.

Best I can do at this point, is conjecture that Tywin didn't want Tyrion to have children in wedlock. This makes sense because he has doubts that Tyrion is his own. If Tyrion were to have a child that looked say very Targaryen, everyone would know.

The reason Tywin actually didn't care if Tyrion had a child with real whore, is because that child's parentage could be denied, since a whore obviously has other customers.

Um, I thought it was because a Lord's son shouldn't be marrying a crofter's daughter. That sort of snobbery amongst Lords is hardly a secret - see Sam when Gilly says she'll be his wife, or Sansa, or Catelyn with Petyr. It's a shame for someone that highborn to be married to a lowly peasant, and Tywin didn't want his house to be shamed..

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Its not because of an intense hatred of whores, because Tywin never did this to any other whores Tyrion has been with. And Tysha was not a whore in the first place, she was a crofters daughter. The idea that she was after his inheritance wont wash either, since Tywin was never going to let Tyrion inherit.

Tywin would likly still have given Tyrion a good sum of gold on his death. Anyways teh Reason the marriage was broken up with that Pround Twyin could NEVR stand to be a Grandfather to Crofters grandson look at how the Westerlings are look down because of the marriage to a trader think about what the banner houses would say!! They would be a huge amount of talk about how low Castly Rock has gone and how Lord Tywin had to marry his son to such a low born woman because he could not make a marriage for to a powerful or old house. Think about what Lord Tully said when Tyrion was offern in marriage to 2nd Child.

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