The Wiseman´s Fear VI (Spoilers and discussion)

[Contrarius]

8. I assumed the Doors of Stone was referring to the locked door in the archives. Possibly information on the Chandrian.

I think "Doors of Stone" is a multiple reference. The door in the archives, but also the waystones (doors to the Fae); and also that door in the Lackless estate that I can't remember clearly right now.

[jumbles]

4. Abenthy was left in a city in the Common Wealth (I cannot remember the name of it) after he acquires a romantic interest with one of the innkeepers, if I remember correctly. I don't know if you're suggesting that Kvothe will find Ben in Yll, but that seems unlikely.

7. Why would the name of copper be locked up?

First off, thanks for taking the time to reply, Windmill.

4. I was not suggesting that Abenthy was in Yll, just that he might know Yllish and teach it to Kvothe.

7. There's no real evidence for it. Just pure speculation in an effort to explain why copper may be difficult for namers to work with.

8. I assumed the Doors of Stone was referring to the locked door in the archives. Possibly information on the Chandrian.

I think "Doors of Stone" is a multiple reference. The door in the archives, but also the waystones (doors to the Fae); and also that door in the Lackless estate that I can't remember clearly right now.

I don't think either of you are wrong.

[Windmill]

First off, thanks for taking the time to reply, Windmill.

4. I was not suggesting that Abenthy was in Yll, just that he might know Yllish and teach it to Kvothe.

7. There's no real evidence for it. Just pure speculation in an effort to explain why copper may be difficult for namers to work with.

Of course. Quality posts are hard to come by!

I see. I still don't think Abenthy will make a return; although, I really liked him and wish he would. I say this because in an interview, Rothfuss was talking about how some of the characters in The Kingkiller Chronicles only make cameo appearances. That said, I believe Abenthy will appear in other novels that have no relation to Kvothe. I bet Ben will be much younger in said novels.

I don't remember reading about copper or that it's hard to work with to be honest.

I think "Doors of Stone" is a multiple reference. The door in the archives, but also the waystones (doors to the Fae); and also that door in the Lackless estate that I can't remember clearly right now.

those are interesting thoughts. For some reason I can't even remember who the Lackless are. I've only just read the books like a week ago, haha.

[AverageGuy]

I don't remember reading about copper or that it's hard to work with to be honest.

Copper comes up a few times. When Elodin breaks the wall in his old cell, you see what looks to be oxidized copper had been built into the wall. Taborlin's sword was made of copper, which, as Kvothe pointed out, would be a stupid thing to make a sword out of for no reason. Same deal for the Amyr's copper shields. Kvothe's thrice-locked chest has an iron key (for fairies) which goes into a copper lock and a copper key which goes into an iron lock. I think the four-paneled door had copper plates, but I might be wrong.

Reigning theory is that copper is Nameless.

[Windmill]

Copper comes up a few times. When Elodin breaks the wall in his old cell, you see what looks to be oxidized copper had been built into the wall. Taborlin's sword was made of copper, which, as Kvothe pointed out, would be a stupid thing to make a sword out of for no reason. Same deal for the Amyr's copper shields. Kvothe's thrice-locked chest has an iron key (for fairies) which goes into a copper lock and a copper key which goes into an iron lock. I think the four-paneled door had copper plates, but I might be wrong.

Reigning theory is that copper is Nameless.

Ah, now i remember. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

That's a very interesting theory.

On an unrelated note: I'm curious to see what role Auri will play in book 3. I thought she would have had a larger role after Kvothe discovered the secret entrance into the Archives. Only a handful of chapters later, however, he regains admittance into the archives so it seems rather unnecessary, in the end. That is assuming that that entrance won't be used later.

On another unrelated note: Does anyone else feel like there can be no happy ending to the series? I mean, we pretty much know the ending. Unless Rothfuss decides to continue where our modern Kovthe leaves off (which he has already said he will not be doing) it seems times will be dark by the ending of the series and everyone reading it will feel a little emptier inside (with a single tear dripping from the corner of an eye).

[allenczhang]

This is a summary of most of the “good catches”/interesting speculation on this forum. Nearly all of this is NOT MY WORK but the genius of others. I’m glad you guys took the time to comb through this book! It made me love this series even more.

This'll also make the lives of people who are just entering this forum easier. I just read through ALL 5 or so threads, and it took me about 3 days. XD

The Chandrain

Cyphus: blue flame

Stercus: loves iron? or hates it? Slave of iron?

Ferule: Goat-eyed, cold

Usnea: Decays junk.

Grey Delcanti: Lame description is lame.

Pale Alenta: Sickness? Decay again wouldn't make sense.

Alaxel: I saw some controversy over whether his true name was alaxel or haliax. I think it's alaxel. Haliax is merely a calling name.

Kvothe and the Amyr

Kvothe is compared to the Amyr a lot. Simmon compares him to the Amyr. Auri calls him a Ciridae. Blood runs down his arms when he’s killing the bandits. When he kills the troupe, blood runs down his arms too (I think…?). Something about blood covering his hands like hot grease. When he allows his hand to be cut by the sword tree, blood runs down the back of his hand.

Just a random thought. In Sceop’s tale, the adem licks blood of the back of her hand. Probably totally off-topic/inconsequential, but just throwing that out there.

Lockless Poems

Seven things stand before//“Seven things has Lady Lackless

The entrance to the Lackless door.// Keeps them underneath her black dress

One of them a ring unworn// One a ring that’s not for wearing (nameless ring? Meluan’s ring?)

One a word that is forsworn// One a sharp word, not for swearing (a name? Always call a whore a lady? Ravel?)

One a time that must be right (something about the moon… full/new moon)

One a candle without light// Right beside her husband’s candle (haliax’s candle? … not likely but…, some people suggested wax for sympathy. Auri’s candle?)

One a son who brings the blood (nobility? Kingkiller? Simmon/ambrose)

One a door that holds the flood (doors of stone? No idea)

One a thing tight-held in keeping// There’s a secret she’s been keeping (a secret)

Then comes that which comes with sleeping.// She’s been dreaming and not sleeping (I think “she’s been dreaming and not sleeping” makes it clear that it’s dreaming. But what’s significant about dreaming…? Kvothes dreams after his troupe were killed were unique.)

There’s a door without a handle (obviously, the box)

In a box, no lid or locks

Lackless keeps her husband’s rocks (husbands rocks… no idea)

On a road, that’s not for traveling (Kvothe’s traveled roads by night, blahblahblah? Fae world?)

Lackless likes her riddle raveling. (ravel? Maybe saying only the edema ruh can open it?)

Denna’s Patron

Cinder

I once thought that it was very unlikely Cinder was Denna’s patron… now, I’m not so sure. The master “ash” part of his name might point to Cinder. Kvothe almost saying ferule again, points toward cinder. But Denna said that Kvothe might have met him among the nobility. And she’d have noticed something weird about Cinder. She danced with him. But Denna is an extremely good liar. I’m not completely sure about this, but I think Denna’s lied to Kvothe several times, including running into a “tree”.

Bredon

Denna said her patron danced with her. The Cteah said her patron beat her with a stick. Bredon has/has done both. Bredon also wears ash-grey clothing. Bredon just seems like a textbook villain. He seems innocent, and enjoys playing a “beautiful game”. Ash and Bredon have white hair. Bredon does pagan rituals in the woods, which could explain him being with Denna when the massacre happened.

It’s more likely that Bredon is connected to the Chandrain. I feel like Denna would not scoff at the Chandrain if she knew they existed; of course, she could be putting up a show. We know Denna’s an awesome actor. Which brings up another point… Denna agrees with Kvothe about the Chandrain in NOTW. But in wise man’s fear, she laughs at him… wtf? That’s always bugged me.

List of questions/possible answers/topics of discussion.

Kvothe’s Hands.

He stabbed himself with holly, looks down at his hands when the panacea is mentioned, and messes up his grip on the King’s men. He rubs his left hand with his right hand.

Theory: His promise to Denna “I swear it by my good left hand” ruined it.

Kvothe’s hands being damaged would explain why he couldn’t play his lute, or fight, etc.

What is behind the 4-plate door?

A dead king, according to Fela. It can’t be anything dangerous, because the Puppet/Masters know what’s behind it. If it was dangerous, they’d guard it.

What’s the significance of copper?

Maybe copper is nameless. The copper veins in the walls of the crockery can’t be named by Elodin, or he’s too lazy. Taborlin has a copper sword, so it can’t be broken with naming…? Maybe that’s the nameless ring Kvothe has.

Why was Kvothe’s father so famous… Lorren knew him?

What’s the Nameless ring? How can you name something that has no name?

Copper might be it. Maybe amber. Taborlin uses a copper sword. There’s a crapload of copper in the crockery.

What’s the difference between having rings on your right as opposed to your left?

Maybe Elodin’s just making a marriage joke. Maybe one hand has to do with shaping/politics.

Denna’s magic.

Is her Yllish braids a form of her “writedownanditbecomestrue” magic? Denna has shown interest in magic twice, once in her letter, the other when she’s discussing with Kvothe and co.

What’s the significance of changing one’s Name?

Presumably it was mentioned because Kvothe changed his.

What does Kvothe’s name mean? Specifically, the Broken Tree?

Broken Tree: The tree he smites with lightning, or… something to do with the Cteah?

Why Meluan looks so familiar.

Not a tally lot less (great catch btw)

Kvothe’s mother being from a noble family

Someone pointed out she might look like Denna, which raises even more questions. Is Denna a lackless? I personally don’t think so.

What is in the lackless box, how do you open it?

Apparently you open it buy putting pressure on the sides and saying edro…? That’s how Kvothe tried to open his box, no idea why it didn’t work. How do the story knots help open the box? Maybe the writedownanditbecomestrue magic applies here?

Who is Auri?

She knows something about the Amyr. She might be the princess Kvothe was talking about, but Rothfuss didn’t include her in previous drafts. This means she might just be for world building, character building, etc. That makes sense to me… when she comforted plum-bob-Kvothe, that was really touching. But Rothfuss might have included stealing princesses with the addition of Auri, so we don’t really know.

Which angel will Kvothe “kill”.

Amyr? Probably. And what does he most desire? Denna? Death of the Chandrain? The latter seems a bit counterproductive.

Who he kills in Imre.

Ambrose. Might explain the Kingkiller title. But Rothfuss didn’t include Ambrose in previous drafts. And kingkilling is a major part of this series. That leaves the Maer, and…?

Why his sword is named poet killer.

He kills simmon? Kinda fits Kingkiller, as simmon is nobility. But… eh. Kvothe was surprised when he heard his sword being called poetkiller.

Where he got his other sword from (folly).

It seems like it’s similar to caesura. Maybe he learns something from the fae… learns how to make awesome swords? Who knows. And why does he name his sword folly?

What’s in his thrice-locked box.

His rings. His cloak. His name. His power. Etc. Seems to correspond with what’s locked in Taborlin’s chest. His staff, sword, and cloak. Maybe for Kvothe, it’s his music, fighting ability, and… naming? Or felurians shaed?

What needs to be explained/what must happen in the last book.

How does Kvothe meet Bast/how does the visit with Felurian go?

How does Kvothe learn how to break bottles?

What is the scar that never healed?

Kvothe needs to visit both the Maer and the Fae.

Kvothe might need to meet Abenthy, and will need to meet Skarpi.

I never noticed a door in the Lackless House... but I've heard several people mention it. Anybody care to quote/explain it to me?

[Red Wedding]

allenczhang, thx so much for your summary. :)

I'm rereading the books in my native language right now and I have a few thoughts and questions which aren't mentioned in that little summary.

1. I'm confused about Cinder and his name Ferule. Ferule means "to bind iron" so why is his sign the cold instead of corroding iron? Shouldn't Stercus be the one who is binded by iron?

2. Marten's prayers called the Amyr and Cinder disappeared. Who called the Amyr when the Chandrian killed Kvothe's parents? How did they know the Chandrian were there? How do they know in generel? Who calls them?

3. Devi. Any theories about why she wants access to the library so badly?

4. Who's trying to kill Kvothe? I doubt it's been Ambrose, Kvothe never truely found the wax doll during the fire in Ambrose's room or did I misread that part? In addition, Devi said someone offered 25 talents in exchange for Kvothe's blood. That's not much money for a person who recently bought a whole Inn just to annoy Kvothe a little bit. But he offers only 25 talents for his BLOOD? And I believe that Devi would tell Kvothe if that person was Ambrose.

I don't know who that might be though, a master seems unlikely to me. A student? Don't know but what about Puppet and his puppets?

5. In NOTW Kvothe sums up his story; a little boy who loses his parents and wants to take revenge. The Chronicler says as to what happens next, "He finds help. A clever talking squirrel. An old drunken swordsman. A mad hermit in the woods. That sort of thing." The squirrel seems to be Auri; Kvothe described her a few times as climbing trees like a squirrel. Did we already meet the drunken swordsman and the mad hermit (is he the hermit in the story about Jax?)?

6. In this same scene (NOTW ch. 45) I've noticed a difference between my German book and the English book. In the English one PR wrote "...because I did find something very near to the mad hermit in the woods." whereas the German one says, "...denn ich stieß tatsächlich auf jemanden, der diesem verrückten Einsiedler sehr nahe kam." So it's translated as "...because I did find someone who..." Do you think that's just a mistake made by the translator?

7. Denna. At the beginning, I really thought she could be one of the Chandrian (maybe the naked one Nina described?) because every time Kvothe touched her her skin felt cold. Furthermore, he says at least twice that her long black hair surrounded her face like a shadow. In WMF, however her skin doesn't feel cold anymore but warm. So now, I think that she is Lady Luna or at least connected to her somehow. Jax says, "She reached out to him, her hand smooth and strong. At first, it seemed cool, then marvelously warm. [..] Her breath was sweet, her lips firm as fruit." At one point Denna states sth like she doesn't want to be some stupid little girl that waits for a prince to rescue her. Kvothe looks at her hands and thinks that she has surprisingly strong hands.

8. Why does Kvothe not know the story of Jax stealing the moon? Neither did Marten, Tempi or Dendan. Only Hespe, how come? Apparently, her mother told her the story more than a hundred time until she knew the story by heart, as if it's been really important to her that her daughter knows the story but why? Who is Hespe? Where does she come from?

[jumbles]

1. I'm confused about Cinder and his name Ferule. Ferule means "to bind iron" so why is his sign the cold instead of corroding iron? Shouldn't Stercus be the one who is binded by iron?

It's been noticed before, but we don't know the answers to those questions.

4. Who's trying to kill Kvothe? I doubt it's been Ambrose, Kvothe never truely found the wax doll during the fire in Ambrose's room or did I misread that part? In addition, Devi said someone offered 25 talents in exchange for Kvothe's blood. That's not much money for a person who recently bought a whole Inn just to annoy Kvothe a little bit. But he offers only 25 talents for his BLOOD? And I believe that Devi would tell Kvothe if that person was Ambrose.

I believe the offer was 55 talents for his blood, but that is still a tiny amount compared to the cost of an inn and I applaud you for noticing that.

Don't know but what about Puppet and his puppets?

There is some speculation on Puppet and his puppets here.

6. In this same scene (NOTW ch. 45) I've noticed a difference between my German book and the English book. In the English one PR wrote "...because I did find something very near to the mad hermit in the woods." whereas the German one says, "...denn ich stieß tatsächlich auf jemanden, der diesem verrückten Einsiedler sehr nahe kam." So it's translated as "...because I did find someone who..." Do you think that's just a mistake made by the translator?

I don't think the distinction between something and someone is important in this case.

[Tears of Lys]

On the part of the Lackless poem "Lackless likes her riddle raveling," it could also refer to the story knots on the unopened box being unraveled.

[Nisheeth]

And I believe that Devi would tell Kvothe if that person was Ambrose.

I don't know who that might be though, a master seems unlikely to me.

5. In NOTW Kvothe sums up his story; a little boy who loses his parents and wants to take revenge. The Chronicler says as to what happens next, "He finds help. A clever talking squirrel. An old drunken swordsman. A mad hermit in the woods. That sort of thing." The squirrel seems to be Auri; Kvothe described her a few times as climbing trees like a squirrel. Did we already meet the drunken swordsman and the mad hermit (is he the hermit in the story about Jax?)?

Ambrose probably would not go to her personally. He would have sent some one else just like he did for the plum bob. As for why he would offer such a small amount, I can't say anything. Or, the one offering is a master, or specifically Hemme?

Can't say about the Drunken swordsman. But the mad hermit probably is Elodin.

[danro]

But the mad hermit probably is Elodin.

Or Felurian or Skarpi?

[unJon]

Or Felurian or Skarpi?

or Manet. ;)

[Nisheeth]

or Manet. ;)

I chose Elodin because just after he says it in the frame, the next chapter is regarding Elodin.

And we can call him Mad (which won't be suitable to Felrian, and we haven't seen enough of Skarpi to make any opinion).

Are there any other books similar to these, worth reading?

[unJon]

Elodin is Manet.

[TerraPrime]

Elodin is Manet.

Huh? I must've missed the fan theory on that.

[NewsToTom]

Huh? I must've missed the fan theory on that.

Early in WMF, at the Eolian, Manet talks about adding three spades to five spades and getting eight spades. At the admissions interview soon after that, Elodin asks a very similar question.

[unJon]

Yup, that scene was the springboard. It's a mostly tongue-in-cheek theory I proposed in one of the early threads. But there is so far no plainly contradicting textual evidence (e.g., Manet and Elodin have never appeared on screen together). For a couple of threads there was a growing meme of spotting Manet disguised as other characters also.

[Tears of Lys]

Don't know whether this has been proposed already, but when I was thinking about how depressed Kvothe is in current day (not during his story-telling), I remembered that Fela knows the Name of Stone. Well, to enter the Doors of Stone, perhaps Kvothe uses Fela's knowledge, with dire consequences.

Being responsible for the death of your best friend's wife would be quite enough to make you hate yourself.

/wild-ass guess

[Gaav]

Just my two cents, but I always assumed that, "He finds help. A clever talking squirrel. An old drunken swordsman. A mad hermit in the woods. That sort of thing." was just Chronicler's answer to Kvothe's question -- an answer befitting somebody as well-versed and jaded in stories as Chronicler is. What happens? This cliche happens. Since Chronicler said it and not Kvothe, I didn't read any particular significance to Kvothe's life into it.

Any evidence to the contrary? It'd be really interesting if so.

[Nisheeth]

Just my two cents, but I always assumed that, "He finds help. A clever talking squirrel. An old drunken swordsman. A mad hermit in the woods. That sort of thing." was just Chronicler's answer to Kvothe's question -- an answer befitting somebody as well-versed and jaded in stories as Chronicler is. What happens? This cliche happens. Since Chronicler said it and not Kvothe, I didn't read any particular significance to Kvothe's life into it.

Any evidence to the contrary? It'd be really interesting if so.

He gestured for Chronicler to pick up his pen. "But for all that, we still see that even the most fanciful of stories hold a shred of truth, because I did

find something very near to the mad hermit in the woods." Kvothe smiled.

"And I was determined to learn the name of the wind."

o we assume that he meets a mad hermit.May be he meets the squirrel and the swordsman as well?