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[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 1


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#21 Dragon Skin Tongue

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:18 PM

There is something that confused me and I can't figure it out. As the chapter starts and Jon is having a wolf dream he senses Shaggy Dog, Summer and Nymeria. He said they were once six pups and now they were four....and the one he could no longer sense. Should I be confused? Who is he talking about?

#22 Aganerral

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:26 PM

There is something that confused me and I can't figure it out. As the chapter starts and Jon is having a wolf dream he senses Shaggy Dog, Summer and Nymeria. He said they were once six pups and now they were four....and the one he could no longer sense. Should I be confused? Who is he talking about?


I would guess it's Summer that he can no longer sense, and have 2 theories:
1) Bran's warging makes Summer feel/sense different
2) Summer crossed to the North side of the wall, and Ghost is usually on the south side of hte wall. The magic that's part of the wall blocks the connection.

#23 Dragon Skin Tongue

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:40 PM

I would guess it's Summer that he can no longer sense, and have 2 theories:
1) Bran's warging makes Summer feel/sense different
2) Summer crossed to the North side of the wall, and Ghost is usually on the south side of hte wall. The magic that's part of the wall blocks the connection.



I thought that meant Summer at first too, but right after the mention of one he could no longer sense Jon/Ghost thinks about the how cold the wind is when it blows off the Wall and how it's colder on the other side where is grey brother who smelled of summer is. So that tells me he can sense Summer. In the chapter Jon still thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, but knows their wolves somehow survived.

Looking at the sentence it says, "four remained.....and one the white wolf could no longer sense." If the four are Ghost, Shaggy, Summer and Nymeria then who can't he sense? Maybe I just need to keep reading or maybe we will have something to debate the next few years while we wait on the next book.

#24 malarky1231

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:04 PM

It's summer. He can't sense him since the wolf is north of the wall, but he knows Summer is still alive. The wall blocks the connection. The one he could no longer sense is referring to one of the four, which is Summer. Ghost already knows Lady and Grey Wind is dead.

#25 Dragon Skin Tongue

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:08 PM

Ii probably is summer I may be over thinking it

#26 Dragon Skin Tongue

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:08 PM

Ii probably is summer I may be over thinking it

#27 Jaimelan

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:49 PM

Ii probably is summer I may be over thinking it

Could it be Lady? I dont remember anyone tell Jon about her death.

#28 KyleLitke

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:20 PM

It's Summer. They know Lady is dead, and anyway, he specifically thinks of Nymeria, and of his "black brother" or something like that...Shaggy is the black one, I believe Summer is more grey, although I may be mistaken. Plus there's a clear reason why Summer might not be sensed but no good reason we know of why it would be Shaggy.

#29 I love Cersei

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:57 AM

Plus there's a clear reason why Summer might not be sensed but no good reason we know of why it would be Shaggy.


He senses Summer though. It's Shaggy he can sense no longer, because Shaggy is near to Greywater Watch now and as the castle can't be traced, he can't be traced whilst there, too.

#30 Windchaser

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:12 PM

I'm pretty sure it's Summer he can't sense, for reasons already given (a warged wolf is different/the other side of the magic wall). He could sense Shaggydog just fine, chewing on a goat.

Ah, I never heard about this Mormont-warg theory before. It seems I must dig into old discussions for that.

#31 blasted_saber

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 04:22 PM

Who are the Queens' men at the wall? Were they sent by Cersei?

#32 MyDogIsNamedDanerys

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 05:59 PM

LOL yeah, I got the feeeling that Stannis was ragging on Jon slightly, because he is starting to like him, as Melisandre points out latter.

Oh and "Better than whores milk aye" /lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

It's good to see that Stannis can maintain a sense of humor even in such a bleak place. I hope we see much and more of Stannis AND Mel throughout the book.


<3 <3 <3 I LOVE YOU STANNIS!!! <3 <3 <3

OMG.
So much.

I am also seeing a lot of similarities between the new LC Jon (who is suddenly way smarter than previously) and Stannis. They are both so damn stubborn. And they both have the realm's best interests in mind... but they are at odds anyway. Love their interactions. Melisandre should just leave them alone. Or, how about a threeway?!?! /bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />

Who are the Queens' men at the wall? Were they sent by Cersei?


Queens' men vs. King's men is first articulated by Davos. It's basically those of Stannis' bannermen that openly worship R'hllor (Queensmen) and those that don't (King's men)

Edited by MyDogIsNamedDanerys, 16 July 2011 - 06:00 PM.


#33 cklabyrinth

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

There is something that confused me and I can't figure it out. As the chapter starts and Jon is having a wolf dream he senses Shaggy Dog, Summer and Nymeria. He said they were once six pups and now they were four....and the one he could no longer sense. Should I be confused? Who is he talking about?


Made a thread about this in the main ADWD forum. Beware some spoilers from later in the book, though:

http://asoiaf.wester...-one-grey-wind/

Definitely reads to me like there are five Stark wolves still living. "Four remained... and one Ghost couldn't sense." Either that or it's just confusingly written.

My theory was that Grey Wind was still alive somehow. All my books are packed in boxes from moving so I can't go back right now and research mention of him after the Red Wedding, or even the prophecy of Dany's at the House of the Undying where she sees the man with a wolf's head. unRobb with Grey Wind's head?

#34 cklabyrinth

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 06:08 PM

<3 <3 <3 I LOVE YOU STANNIS!!! <3 <3 <3

OMG.
So much.



Stannis has had some great lines throughout the series. Would that I could remember them. Seem to remember one about Renly that was really good.

#35 Calibandar

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 05:21 AM

Jon comes across really strong in this first chaper, exhibiting wisdom as well as courage.
I wonder where Stannis' storyline will be going to in this book.

Interesting that he wants every single fort manned before the year is out.

Made a thread about this in the main ADWD forum. Beware some spoilers from later in the book, though:

http://asoiaf.wester...-one-grey-wind/

Definitely reads to me like there are five Stark wolves still living. "Four remained... and one Ghost couldn't sense." Either that or it's just confusingly written.

My theory was that Grey Wind was still alive somehow. All my books are packed in boxes from moving so I can't go back right now and research mention of him after the Red Wedding, or even the prophecy of Dany's at the House of the Undying where she sees the man with a wolf's head. unRobb with Grey Wind's head?


I think you guys are confused. First we hear that there are 4 left, of which Ghost is 1. Then we see Ghost seeing what Nymeria and Shaggydog are experiencing at that time. Then it is stated that Ghost cannot sense Summer anymore, and this is of course because Summer is beyond the Wall, whereas in this chapter, Ghost is south of the Wall. It is the power of the Wall that blocks them. 4 direwolves of the Starks still remain, not 5.

#36 I love Cersei

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 06:11 AM

I reread the passage, you're right, it's definitely Summer he can't sense at the time. It's very clear that he senses Shaggy and Nymeria.

Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. (...) A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, (...) In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins (...)



#37 Pegli

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:33 AM

has Lady's corpse ever clearly shown? What if Ned let her go instead of cutting her throat?

#38 malarky1231

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:18 AM

No, Ned cut her throat, then sent her bones back to Winterfell to be buried, because he did not want Cersei getting her hands on Lady's fur. That's how Bran and the others know, also I believe ravens were sent out to Castle Black/Winterfell telling of this incident. No way Lady is still alive, like Grey Wind, both are dead.

It's Summer without a doubt. The magic from the wall prevents Ghost from sensing him. Since the other two direwolves, Shaggy Dog and Nymeria are south of the wall, he has no trouble sensing what they're doing.

#39 moot

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:18 PM

Also, what is Melisandre talking about in reference to the "hinges of the world"? She states that the Wall is situated beneath on of the hinges of the world. It must have something to do with why the CoTF raised the Wall at that particular location, and perhaps more specifically, Castle Black.


Would like to hear more about this. I haven't reread the previous books in prep for this so I've forgotten all the finer points. Is this a throw-away line or does it mean something?

#40 Valar_Morghulis

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 10:53 PM

I believe it is a typo. Ran has mentioned elsewhere that there may be about half a dozen throughout the book.


Half a dozen? I've noticed at least twice that many and I've still got about 400 pages left until I finish the book. /read.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':read:' />
Unfortunately, this one doesn't seem to have gone through quite as thorough of a copy-editing process as the others.