The Official Appreciation Thread for Sansa, Queen in the North v. 2

[1234567]

Continuing on from before.

VooDoo Queen

Ooh here is something that sums up Tyrions interactions with Sansa perfectly:

" That, Senators, is what a favour from gangs amounts to. They refrain from murdering someone; then they boast that they have spared him!"

From Cicero's Second Philippic Against Antony"

@Voodoo Queen

That is an excellent quote and does sum up the situation between them. Not committing an act of cruelty when one can because they are in a position of power, is not a kindness, it's just normal behaviour.

There was a very good BBC documentary on Stolen Brides in Chechnya (can still find the details online) about young women abducted by a man and his family and then forced to marry. It was very sad and did make your blood boil. What was equally sad was that one of the girl's reactions was the same as Sansa's: meekly going along with it and feeling she had no choice. In the follow up bit a month or two later, she had accepted her fate but was utterly miserable. Interestingly the guy couldn't find a wife as he was not sociably desirable. He was also a vile individual who basically said his wife's feelings didn't matter.

However Sansa's character would work very well as a Queen. She has courtly training and is begining to learn the politics, but she also has one trump card that LF and Cersei bever really did, and that is the Stark ability to get people to love them. She could not only be politically savee, but actually have a loyal following around her.

[Raksha the Demon]

Sansa definitely has charisma; and the ability to inspire; Ser Dontos didn't help her only for Littlefinger's coin. Also, Sansa's early education in heraldry seems to have laid the groundwork for a political education; she can learn more easily how people are allied and what their motives are because she knows not only their names but their Houses, rank and deeds. Sansa will, I think; become a great lady; and could become a queen.

[1234567]

Indeed. Sansa may hate that people only want her for her claim, but she must also realize at somepoint that she is of value because of that claim. She must then realize that she is of value as a person and that people will be loyal to her of who she is as a person, not just because of her claim.

Her stint in KL has stripped her of a belief in her self worth and confidence to some extent. This could be rectified by being Alayne, as she will learn through people willing to care about a bastard that who she is as a person is every bit as important in inspiring loyalty as the political schemes and machinations LF is teaching her.

[headtrip_honey]

Indeed. Sansa may hate that people only want her for her claim, but she must also realize at somepoint that she is of value because of that claim. She must then realize that she is of value as a person and that people will be loyal to her of who she is as a person, not just because of her claim.

.

What was it Tyrion said? That over-used quote that I'm sick of?

"Wear it like armor, and no one can ever use it against you."

Sansa needs to OWN her claim to Winterfell, and use it to her advantage, instead of being used.

[Lemon Cake]

Sansa definitely has charisma;

She really does. Sansa may be very polarizing to readers, but she actually seems to be quite well-liked by the majority of the characters in the books. The only people who seem to blatantly dislike her are Cersei and Joffrey (not the best judge of character, either of them), and at times Arya (which I think most of us can agree is a special situation, and more about sibling rivalry than anything else). Everyone else, including Tyrion (I have my reasons for believing this, but I won't go into them here), seems to like her, or at the very least to find her pleasant enough. Even Jon Snow, who actually has a valid reason to resent her, seems fond of her. He does think ruefully at one point about how she only ever referred to him as her "half-brother," but he does so without any apparent malice, and in the context of thinking that he misses her in spite of it.

I think a large part of her appeal is that she's very good at making people feel good about themselves. Tyrion in particular noticed it when they were mingling with the guests before Joffrey's wedding. She even had Kevan and Lancel, two men from a hardened and cynical family, "beaming" with pleasure when she spoke with them. Granted, Kevan and Lancel are two of the gentler Lannisters -- but they're still Lannisters. From what Tyrion tells us, I had the impression that Sansa charmed almost everyone she spoke to at the wedding.

The fact that Sansa was able to do this with people she inwardly despised, at a time when she'd been in a frightened, desperate state of depression for nearly two years, is remarkable imo. I think it speaks volumes about just how good she is, both with people and with playing a part she needs to play when it's necessary.

[Woman of War]

VooDoo Queen

Ooh here is something that sums up Tyrions interactions with Sansa perfectly:

" That, Senators, is what a favour from gangs amounts to. They refrain from murdering someone; then they boast that they have spared him!"

From Cicero's Second Philippic Against Antony"

@Voodoo Queen

That is an excellent quote and does sum up the situation between them. Not committing an act of cruelty when one can because they are in a position of power, is not a kindness, it's just normal behaviour.

There was a very good BBC documentary on Stolen Brides in Chechnya (can still find the details online) about young women abducted by a man and his family and then forced to marry. It was very sad and did make your blood boil. What was equally sad was that one of the girl's reactions was the same as Sansa's: meekly going along with it and feeling she had no choice. In the follow up bit a month or two later, she had accepted her fate but was utterly miserable. Interestingly the guy couldn't find a wife as he was not sociably desirable. He was also a vile individual who basically said his wife's feelings didn't matter.

actually it was me who made the last post:

"Tyrion never boasted of it "

I see that you are willing to take up the debate about the Sansa/Tyrion marriage again. Well, I believe this has been chewed to death. So I could easily repeat my old posts here, as so many other posters who don't share your opinion and we would not proceed one step further. "also a vile Individual" is certainly a statement where a controversial debate could start at zero and no one will move, so it is pointless. And a discussion that only turns backwards doesn't do justice to any of the literary characters concerned.

[littlespider]

What was it Tyrion said? That over-used quote that I'm sick of?

"Wear it like armor, and no one can ever use it against you."

Sansa needs to OWN her claim to Winterfell, and use it to her advantage, instead of being used.

And.... "Courtesy is a lady's armor."

Sansa's certainly got armor (besides just plot armor, of course).

And it will be a beautiful day when she starts to seize more agency for herself, and use that claim to WF.

We also know she's a full warg, yes? I am curious as to how or whether this will come into play in her eventual political maneuverings.

[headtrip_honey]

And.... "Courtesy is a lady's armor."

Sansa's certainly got armor (besides just plot armor, of course).

And it will be a beautiful day when she starts to seize more agency for herself, and use that claim to WF.

We also know she's a full warg, yes? I am curious as to how or whether this will come into play in her eventual political maneuverings.

GRRM has said that all the Stark children are wargs. I, too, will be interested to see if it is used in Sansa's story. I almost hope it isn't, because I like her "grounded in reality" plot line. She doesn't have anything to fall back on but what she was born with. She doesn't have a direwolf to protect her, she doesn't have swords, she isn't a greenseer. What she has is courtesy, wits, and beauty. If she can use them all to her advantage, she can be what Cersei wanted to be. I see Cersei and Sansa as being very interesting parallels to one another. One of the reasons I loved their interactions in ACOK and ASOS.

[1234567]

We also know she's a full warg, yes? I am curious as to how or whether this will come into play in her eventual political maneuverings.

Her Warg ability may indeed make her quite formidable. If she does ever become Queen, I can suddenly see KL having a very large Aviary! I wonder if the phrase "little birds" started with Varys or Blood Raven. If it is Blood Raven, then she would be following in his footsteps as it were. Although that amount of knowledge without an obvious source may indeed fuel the socery rumours!

@Woman of War

One comment about another post does not entail recovering old ground. The marriage happened in the books and will be mentioned from time to time. We are allowed free speech. In fact all the other posts in this thread (including my own have not mentioned the Wedding)

Most of that post related to Sansa's behaviour and comparing it to similar real life situations, which I personally find deplorable. In the documentary a man who (along with his cousin) physically abduct a girl waiting for her grandfather to pick her up from Uni, get his family to hold her hostage for the night and then force her to marry him (because culturally she is now tainted). I referred to his behaviour as vile. If you don't think that is vile and take umbrage with me saying so, then I really don't know what to say.

Edit: I am guessing you have misunderstood or not read both posts you quoted as your responses don't really make sense.

[1234567]

@ Headtrip Honey

That is another good argument for her being the younger Queen, because she will also have the one thing Cersei wanted most as a Queen, which was to be respected.

[Alexia]

Sansa needs to OWN her claim to Winterfell, and use it to her advantage, instead of being used.

We do see hints of this happening. In ASOS, Lysa called her a beggar and Sansa thought angrily that she was no beggar and she was NOT going to marry Sweetrobin.

We also know she's a full warg, yes? I am curious as to how or whether this will come into play in her eventual political maneuverings.

I saw some very interesting speculation about Sophie Turner's wardrobe as Sansa and what it meant. She wears a dragonfly necklace, and apparently her corset is embroidered with dragonflies. So the speculation was... does this mean she might ride a dragon? I have a lot of trouble visualizing how it would all come together, but nonetheless...

[1234567]

I saw some very interesting speculation about Sophie Turner's wardrobe as Sansa and what it meant. She wears a dragonfly necklace, and apparently her corset is embroidered with dragonflies. So the speculation was... does this mean she might ride a dragon? I have a lot of trouble visualizing how it would all come together, but nonetheless...

I wonder if it references her marrying a Dragon ie. Aegon. I am not certain Aegon will play a larger role in the series, however he has been part of Varys's arc since the first book (even though we didn't know it at the time).

[littlespider]

We do see hints of this happening. In ASOS, Lysa called her a beggar and Sansa thought angrily that she was no beggar and she was NOT going to marry Sweetrobin.

I saw some very interesting speculation about Sophie Turner's wardrobe as Sansa and what it meant. She wears a dragonfly necklace, and apparently her corset is embroidered with dragonflies. So the speculation was... does this mean she might ride a dragon? I have a lot of trouble visualizing how it would all come together, but nonetheless...

Interesting note with the dragonflies. Now this ties into my insane crackpot theory about warging a dragon. I would *love* for that to happen, though realistically I doubt Sansa will do it. However, this does not preclude her from riding one, yes?

She's consistently associated with flying thingies as well -- the dragonfly note is a pretty cool anticipation of this. She's a little bird, she's close to the falcons of House Arryn and it's planned in her future to become Lady of the Vale, and isn't there some rumor (exaggerated, but still interesting) that she sprouted bat wings and that's how she escaped after murdering Joff? Maybe this was Greg's men that reported this, don't have SoS in front of me.

Viserys was also called the Beggar King, and he at least thought he was a dragon. Perhaps that's nothing, though the connection is interesting.

Long live Sansa!

I wonder if it references her marrying a Dragon ie. Aegon. I am not certain Aegon will play a larger role in the series, however he has been part of Varys's arc since the first book (even though we didn't know it at the time).

Well in this case she may very well ride a dragon. :whip:

[brashcandy]

Sansa warging/riding a dragon is one of my fav crackpots on the board. I think she could manage it out of sheer terror or some other perilous situation where she has no other choice.

It may just end up being an ordinary dog at the Eyrie for now. Sorta like an easy test subject through which she can explore and control her warg powers.

[1234567]

If Sansa ends up Wargging or Ridding a Dragon it will have a big pretty pink bow on its neck within a week......and that includes the Dragon being Aegon. :leer:

[Alexia]

If Sansa ends up Wargging or Ridding a Dragon it will have a big pretty pink bow on its neck within a week......and that includes the Dragon being Aegon. :leer:

Aegon can put the pretty pink bow on himself, thank you very much!

[1234567]

Aegon can put the pretty pink bow on himself, thank you very much!

Nah....he might tie it to the wrong area......

Sorry guys....my mind has hit the gutter. :leaving:

[Alexia]

Nah....he might tie it to the wrong area......

Sorry guys....my mind has hit the gutter. :leaving:

The wrong area or the right area... so very right...

[littlespider]

One would hope that Aegon would want a bow that was at least a little manly, like, um, plaid or something.

What's that scotsman/kilt song that involves the bow and first prize? There should be a Targ adaptation to that.

[Alexia]

One assumes that Westeros doesn't have the pink/blue girls/boys distinction that we do... which, if I'm not mistaken, is actually a pretty recent phenomena...