First post so apologies if this has already been covered or if ive posted in the wrong place but......
Who do you think the "dragon has three heads" refers to? My theory is as follows
Dany.
We all know that she is a true targ and mother if dragons. We also know her mother died giving birth to her.....random comment but there is a point to the last comment
Jon.
I'm going to assume everyone knows of the L+A=J theory and thats why he is the second head....and to back this up his mother Lyanna also died...can you see where I'm going with this?
Finally....Tyrion.
ADWD pops up with the story of how Aerys took liberties with Tywins wife....now imagine this happend a few times and a child was conceived who killed his mother when born and we have Tyrion....another poss targ child killing his mother when born.
Now I know this is a bit of a jump and with very little to back it up but to me we have three of the main characters in the book who have a poss targ parent ( one confirmed) and each killed their mother as they came into the world...GRRM doesn't do coincidence so.......
What do you think?
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The Dragon Has Three heads.....(ADWD spoiler)
Started by
a bastard named snow
, May 15 2012 05:58 AM
148 replies to this topic
#2
Jayce
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:06 AM
a bastard named snow, on 15 May 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:
Jon.
I'm going to assume everyone knows of the L+A=J theory
I'm going to assume everyone knows of the L+A=J theory
First off I realise this was likely a typo (well, I think) so I am sorry but I can't help myself.
L+A=J ? Lyanna + Aerys?
#3
Jayce
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:07 AM
With regards to your question I have thought it would be those 3 as they appear to be the main characters to me, so why not them?
Having said that after so long I'm starting to hope I'm wrong and Jon never rides a dragon.
Having said that after so long I'm starting to hope I'm wrong and Jon never rides a dragon.
#4
a bastard named snow
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:26 AM
Whoops, major typo there....thats what I get for posting on a smart phone while at work
L+R=J
L+R=J
#5
DragonSpawn
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:27 AM
I think Dany will lose Drogon sadly... and Drogon will have to be killed 
Arya will fly Viseryion and Tyrion will fly Rhaegal to Sansa...
But i think Drogon will make a comeback... as the 'White Dread' ... as will Jon Snow... The Ice Dragon...
Arya will fly Viseryion and Tyrion will fly Rhaegal to Sansa...
But i think Drogon will make a comeback... as the 'White Dread' ... as will Jon Snow... The Ice Dragon...
#6
Stark@heart
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:31 AM
There seem to be lots of Targs or half Targs around but only 3 with the Blood of Dragon. I've always looked at it that way.
Dany, Jon and Tyrion because of the mothers dying. We're told again and again that only death can pay for life and to bring magic into the world requires a blood sacrifice.
Dany, Jon and Tyrion because of the mothers dying. We're told again and again that only death can pay for life and to bring magic into the world requires a blood sacrifice.
#7
mcb
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:54 AM
a bastard named snow, on 15 May 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:
Finally....Tyrion.
ADWD pops up with the story of how Aerys took liberties with Tywins wife...
ADWD pops up with the story of how Aerys took liberties with Tywins wife...
...during their wedding night. If any of Joanna's children were fathered by Aerys, it had to be the twins, not the youngest one.
#8
Stark@heart
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:33 PM
I think that's the false trail, highlighted by Cersei and Jamie being incestious (like Targs) and Joffery's cruelty now Cersei going mad ( like King Areys)
A lot of people like Jamie and Cersei and like to think it's not their fault they are the way they are, or more so, they try to get Jamie off the hook.
Tyrion is one of GRRMs favs and I believe he's always had an ace or dragon up his sleeve.
A lot of people like Jamie and Cersei and like to think it's not their fault they are the way they are, or more so, they try to get Jamie off the hook.
Tyrion is one of GRRMs favs and I believe he's always had an ace or dragon up his sleeve.
#9
a bastard named snow
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:42 PM
mcb, on 15 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:
...during their wedding night. If any of Joanna's children were fathered by Aerys, it had to be the twins, not the youngest one.
#10
a bastard named snow
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:47 PM
mcb, on 15 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:
...during their wedding night. If any of Joanna's children were fathered by Aerys, it had to be the twins, not the youngest one.
Yes but theres nothing to say he wasn't dallying away with her behind Tywins back. He was mad so what would he care if they got caught?
#11
JJtheCrow
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:00 PM
[bastard named snow' =Yes but theres nothing to say he wasn't dallying away with her behind Tywins back. He was mad so what would he care if they got caught?
If that is your reasoning behind Tyrion being a Targ, I'd say that's pretty flimsy. Jon and Dany are the most obvious choices for two out of the three riders but their is no telling what GRRM will do with our "obvious" choices. Anyone's guess is as good as any at this point. Maybe Griff could be one???
If that is your reasoning behind Tyrion being a Targ, I'd say that's pretty flimsy. Jon and Dany are the most obvious choices for two out of the three riders but their is no telling what GRRM will do with our "obvious" choices. Anyone's guess is as good as any at this point. Maybe Griff could be one???
#12
a bastard named snow
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:38 PM
JJtheCrow, on 15 May 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:
[bastard named snow' =Yes but theres nothing to say he wasn't dallying away with her behind Tywins back. He was mad so what would he care if they got caught?
True
If that is your reasoning behind Tyrion being a Targ, I'd say that's pretty flimsy. Jon and Dany are the most obvious choices for two out of the three riders but their is no telling what GRRM will do with our "obvious" choices. Anyone's guess is as good as any at this point. Maybe Griff could be one???
True
If that is your reasoning behind Tyrion being a Targ, I'd say that's pretty flimsy. Jon and Dany are the most obvious choices for two out of the three riders but their is no telling what GRRM will do with our "obvious" choices. Anyone's guess is as good as any at this point. Maybe Griff could be one???
Flimsy it is, just to me the dragon has three heads is a big part of the story and for a character that was just introduced in the 5th book and doesnt even has his own POV to be one of those seems to be a little bit of a cop out and unlikely. Like you say, it could be anyone, this was just my idea......not sure about griff.....old griff is infected and young griff/Aegon seems about as authentic as a mummers show though it wouldnt be the first time ive been totally wrong
#13
DragonsHungry
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:05 PM
a bastard named snow, on 15 May 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:
First post so apologies if this has already been covered or if ive posted in the wrong place but......
Who do you think the "dragon has three heads" refers to? My theory is as follows
Dany.
We all know that she is a true targ and mother if dragons. We also know her mother died giving birth to her.....random comment but there is a point to the last comment
Jon.
I'm going to assume everyone knows of the L+A=J theory and thats why he is the second head....and to back this up his mother Lyanna also died...can you see where I'm going with this?
Finally....Tyrion.
ADWD pops up with the story of how Aerys took liberties with Tywins wife....now imagine this happend a few times and a child was conceived who killed his mother when born and we have Tyrion....another poss targ child killing his mother when born.
Now I know this is a bit of a jump and with very little to back it up but to me we have three of the main characters in the book who have a poss targ parent ( one confirmed) and each killed their mother as they came into the world...GRRM doesn't do coincidence so.......
What do you think?
Who do you think the "dragon has three heads" refers to? My theory is as follows
Dany.
We all know that she is a true targ and mother if dragons. We also know her mother died giving birth to her.....random comment but there is a point to the last comment
Jon.
I'm going to assume everyone knows of the L+A=J theory and thats why he is the second head....and to back this up his mother Lyanna also died...can you see where I'm going with this?
Finally....Tyrion.
ADWD pops up with the story of how Aerys took liberties with Tywins wife....now imagine this happend a few times and a child was conceived who killed his mother when born and we have Tyrion....another poss targ child killing his mother when born.
Now I know this is a bit of a jump and with very little to back it up but to me we have three of the main characters in the book who have a poss targ parent ( one confirmed) and each killed their mother as they came into the world...GRRM doesn't do coincidence so.......
What do you think?
Jon and Dany, yes, totally see that happening.
Tyrion, I hope not, it would suck and completely ruin his character. Tyrion should stay a Lannister, not somehow be Aerys' son. The whole point of his feud with Tywin would seem cheap and lame. I will quit reading if that happens.
Why not dress him a Ninja Outfit, give him a power sword, so when he rides his dragon he can call out to Jon and Dany, "Its Morphin Time".
That would freaking be awful if he was the third dragon rider.
#14
Apple Martini
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:46 PM
I like the idea that it's three different aspects ("heads") of one person. The dragon in question is symbolic, not literal.
#15
tyrion84
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:57 PM
What about Victarion and his dragon-horn? I think he will be the first to be able to control the dragons even though that will be short lived....
#16
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:45 PM
There is another hint that most people miss during Khal Drogo's funeral.
The black egg is set next to Drogo's heart.
The white egg is set next to Drogo's loins
The green egg is set next to Drogo's head
Is the positioning important? I can't imagine GRRM chose those locations by accident. Since the white dragon seems aimed at Jon (his last name is Snow, his wolf is white, etc.), is there significance to the placement on Drogo's body? It seems a hint that Dany and Jon will become lovers.
If so, what does the placement of the green egg signify? What character in the book seems most closely associated with the head, and also has an association with the color green (one green eye, creative use of wildfire - which is an odd green color)? Tyrion.
The black egg is set next to Drogo's heart.
The white egg is set next to Drogo's loins
The green egg is set next to Drogo's head
Is the positioning important? I can't imagine GRRM chose those locations by accident. Since the white dragon seems aimed at Jon (his last name is Snow, his wolf is white, etc.), is there significance to the placement on Drogo's body? It seems a hint that Dany and Jon will become lovers.
If so, what does the placement of the green egg signify? What character in the book seems most closely associated with the head, and also has an association with the color green (one green eye, creative use of wildfire - which is an odd green color)? Tyrion.
#17
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:20 PM
Mugwump, on 15 May 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:
If so, what does the placement of the green egg signify? What character in the book seems most closely associated with the head, and also has an association with the color green (one green eye, creative use of wildfire - which is an odd green color)? Tyrion.
Bran. Greenseer. Thoughts -> head.
I like the theory that there will be only 1 dragon and he will have three heads, those being:
1. The physical head of the dragon, obviously
2. The head of the rider riding the dragon
3. The head of the warg warging the dragon
Edited by dreamcatcher, 15 May 2012 - 06:22 PM.
#18
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:00 AM
tyrion84, on 15 May 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:
What about Victarion and his dragon-horn? I think he will be the first to be able to control the dragons even though that will be short lived....
The red priest tells Victarion that he must claim the horn with blood in order to become its master. Who blows the horn doesn't matter, the dragon will be bound to the horn's master. Probably true because blowing the horn kills you. But that same priest has been preaching about Dany and is seeking her out to help her. How interested this priest is in making Victarion the horn's master is uncertain. There's also something about Targ blood. Tyrion mentions how he knew the Targ ancestory would make the dragons like Brown Ben Plumm. Not sure if that applies to the horn at all.
#19
tsunad
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:37 AM
I don't know who all three heads of the dragons will be, but if they are dragon-riders, the following thought comes to mind:
The dragons are powerful weapons. Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros with what is presumably a handful of men (those at Dragonstone) and three dragons. He defeated six of the seven kingdoms without losing a dragon, and the seventh kingdom only survived by avoiding direct confrontation with the dragons. That was three centuries ago. I do not think any of the claimants to the throne in Westeros could hope to do better against Dany's three dragons.
But Dany with three dragons crossing the narrow sea and wiping everyone else off the map is going to be poor storytelling. It's worthy of a fan-fic, but I don't see GRRM going down that route.
Which means Dany needs something to challenger her and Drogon. Perhaps the Others can fill this role. It's possible, but I haven't seen any hints that the Others are worthy dragon-slayers, unless you take Valyria's apparent lack of interest in conquering Westeros before the Doom as a sign that they feared the Others. If that's the case, I expect a dragon (and probably it's rider) will die to prove that the Others are a threat.
So possibility #1 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then someone is going to die. That's going to be someone who isn't necessary for the book's resolution. (Being GRRM, guessing who is disposable is going to be hard - after all, Ned and Viserys looked destined to finish the series as protagonist and antagonist in AGoT.)
But what if the Other's aren't worthy dragon-slayers? What if the necessary conflict is that the dragon-riders aren't allied? What if they are enemies?
Possibility #2 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then they will not be allied to each other. The dragon horn could come into play to make this happen.
The dragons are powerful weapons. Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros with what is presumably a handful of men (those at Dragonstone) and three dragons. He defeated six of the seven kingdoms without losing a dragon, and the seventh kingdom only survived by avoiding direct confrontation with the dragons. That was three centuries ago. I do not think any of the claimants to the throne in Westeros could hope to do better against Dany's three dragons.
But Dany with three dragons crossing the narrow sea and wiping everyone else off the map is going to be poor storytelling. It's worthy of a fan-fic, but I don't see GRRM going down that route.
Which means Dany needs something to challenger her and Drogon. Perhaps the Others can fill this role. It's possible, but I haven't seen any hints that the Others are worthy dragon-slayers, unless you take Valyria's apparent lack of interest in conquering Westeros before the Doom as a sign that they feared the Others. If that's the case, I expect a dragon (and probably it's rider) will die to prove that the Others are a threat.
So possibility #1 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then someone is going to die. That's going to be someone who isn't necessary for the book's resolution. (Being GRRM, guessing who is disposable is going to be hard - after all, Ned and Viserys looked destined to finish the series as protagonist and antagonist in AGoT.)
But what if the Other's aren't worthy dragon-slayers? What if the necessary conflict is that the dragon-riders aren't allied? What if they are enemies?
Possibility #2 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then they will not be allied to each other. The dragon horn could come into play to make this happen.
#20
a bastard named snow
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:57 AM
tsunad, on 18 May 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:
I don't know who all three heads of the dragons will be, but if they are dragon-riders, the following thought comes to mind:
The dragons are powerful weapons. Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros with what is presumably a handful of men (those at Dragonstone) and three dragons. He defeated six of the seven kingdoms without losing a dragon, and the seventh kingdom only survived by avoiding direct confrontation with the dragons. That was three centuries ago. I do not think any of the claimants to the throne in Westeros could hope to do better against Dany's three dragons.
But Dany with three dragons crossing the narrow sea and wiping everyone else off the map is going to be poor storytelling. It's worthy of a fan-fic, but I don't see GRRM going down that route.
Which means Dany needs something to challenger her and Drogon. Perhaps the Others can fill this role. It's possible, but I haven't seen any hints that the Others are worthy dragon-slayers, unless you take Valyria's apparent lack of interest in conquering Westeros before the Doom as a sign that they feared the Others. If that's the case, I expect a dragon (and probably it's rider) will die to prove that the Others are a threat.
So possibility #1 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then someone is going to die. That's going to be someone who isn't necessary for the book's resolution. (Being GRRM, guessing who is disposable is going to be hard - after all, Ned and Viserys looked destined to finish the series as protagonist and antagonist in AGoT.)
But what if the Other's aren't worthy dragon-slayers? What if the necessary conflict is that the dragon-riders aren't allied? What if they are enemies?
Possibility #2 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then they will not be allied to each other. The dragon horn could come into play to make this happen.
The dragons are powerful weapons. Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros with what is presumably a handful of men (those at Dragonstone) and three dragons. He defeated six of the seven kingdoms without losing a dragon, and the seventh kingdom only survived by avoiding direct confrontation with the dragons. That was three centuries ago. I do not think any of the claimants to the throne in Westeros could hope to do better against Dany's three dragons.
But Dany with three dragons crossing the narrow sea and wiping everyone else off the map is going to be poor storytelling. It's worthy of a fan-fic, but I don't see GRRM going down that route.
Which means Dany needs something to challenger her and Drogon. Perhaps the Others can fill this role. It's possible, but I haven't seen any hints that the Others are worthy dragon-slayers, unless you take Valyria's apparent lack of interest in conquering Westeros before the Doom as a sign that they feared the Others. If that's the case, I expect a dragon (and probably it's rider) will die to prove that the Others are a threat.
So possibility #1 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then someone is going to die. That's going to be someone who isn't necessary for the book's resolution. (Being GRRM, guessing who is disposable is going to be hard - after all, Ned and Viserys looked destined to finish the series as protagonist and antagonist in AGoT.)
But what if the Other's aren't worthy dragon-slayers? What if the necessary conflict is that the dragon-riders aren't allied? What if they are enemies?
Possibility #2 is that if the heads of the dragon are the riders, then they will not be allied to each other. The dragon horn could come into play to make this happen.
Just a thought, if the others managed to kill a dragon would they be able to turn it into a wight/dragon? Theres mention that wolves, bears etc are turned into undead steads so why not a dragon? Could put a new meaning to "ice and fire"
Edited by a bastard named snow, 18 May 2012 - 02:58 AM.
