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[Book Spoilers] The Whitewashing of Tyrion


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#21 Ser Giant

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

I think the pig shit is just a reference to the wildfire...


Yeah, it's in reference to a line/joke someone(Tyrion or Bronn I think) said while talking to the Pyromancer Hyllane.

#22 mcb

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:18 PM

Yeah, it's in reference to a line/joke someone(Tyrion or Bronn I think) said while talking to the Pyromancer Hyllane.


Pyromancer himself: "Our order does not deal in pig shit!"

#23 Blue Sun

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

People, seriously, we can't have them putting all that in. I mean, if they did, there'd be a serious chance of people actually disliking some of the things Tyrion does, and they just couldn't risk that happening. Could you just imagine what would happen then?

I hear next season they're going to have him kill Tywin just for murdering Robb, because obviously, that would gain him all the fans that were let down by Robb's demise. Next they'll have him join the Starks in earnest with a goal of bringing a measure of justice back to the seven kingdoms.

Edited by ManyFacedOne, 21 May 2012 - 08:32 PM.


#24 SerMixalot

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:38 PM

Yeah, it's in reference to a line/joke someone(Tyrion or Bronn I think) said while talking to the Pyromancer Hyllane.


ahh yes replayed the scene and definitely refer to pig shit. the necromancers were making wildfire for cersei and tyrion coopted it. Kind of makes tyrions claim as savior of KL somewhat slightly questionable, but I suppose it will work for tv

#25 Rickon is FIERCE

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:08 PM

My thoughts on this from another thread:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. A lot of Tyrion's depth has been lost, from brains to balls. The ONLY sign of his superior intellect has been the Pycelle trap. There have been NO sex scenes with Shae, which are purposefully all over the books....unfortunate b/c I think the contrast of how he'd be with Shae, whom he loves, vs. his interlude with Ros last season would've been good for character development. As it is they've whitewashed him quite a bit- no participation in Tysha's rape, no sex this season, no threats to Tommen after the Alayaya/Ros beating, no Cersei poisoning (why show him getting the drug from Pycelle in the first place???), over the top Prince Charming setup of the forthcoming Sansa marriage....very little substance, conflict, darkness, or depth, all of which make him such a fantastic character.



#26 Sphinx The Riddle

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

next yall gonna call out Hodors character for not pronouncing H-O-D-A-R right

#27 Hear Us Roar

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

They are doing that to all the lannisters

They are making Joffrey more psychotic than he was in the books and pinning things on him that were not his doing ie killing robert's bastards

Jaime randomly killing his cousin, making him more psychotic than he was in the books.

They are making Cersei and Tywin more sympathetic. Tywin opening up to this girl he made for a noble born and smiling. Cersei being less vicious and more "Its all Joffrey i am so helpless etc"

Tyrion is being portrayed as the Ned Stark for the Lannisters... which he is not

#28 Rickon is FIERCE

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:11 PM

Tyrion is being portrayed as the Ned Stark for the Lannisters... which he is not


An apologetic Ned Stark, but yes.

#29 Darth Pipes

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:28 PM

As pointed out, you couldn't include all those things for Tyrion. There isn't enough time. But they've definitely white-wash some of his behavior. For Clash, I don't mind. Clash is Tyrion at the height of his standing in Westeros. It's a personal highpoint despite some of his less-than-honorable moments, like threatening Shae and threatening Tommen.

If they white-wash his behavior in Season 3, I wil be very annoyed. Tyrion declines in every way in that book and that should be reflected on the show. It's important to his story arc throught the rest of the books. That being said, I'd be surprised if they have TV Tyrion murder Shae.

#30 Bourne

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:56 PM

Tyrion is being portrayed as the Ned Stark for the Lannisters... which he is not


And thank god for that.

#31 Eddard Sand

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:13 AM

Since the chain is seemingly cut from the show I think I have an idea as to how Tyrion will be saving the day during the blackwater. Now since Tyrion went through the trouble of describing his previous appointment as head plumber of Lannisport/the Rock (don't remember which). I think we are going to see him using this old bit of knowledge to save the day. I can see him somehow using the drainage systems of Kings Landing to flood the Blackwater with pigshit/wildfire, now if this substance is buoyant (which I think it is from what I remember from the text) then we will hopefully see Tyrions genius at work! Imagine the entire Blackwater set ablaze in an emerald inferno of epic proportions. They wouldn't even need the chain to catch every ship aflame. I hope this happens, or something similarly revealing of Tyrions brilliance.

Sincerely,


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#32 wolverine

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:32 AM

FWIW I think they are going to replace the chain with some trick with pig shit as evident by tyrions expression when mentining pig shit to Bronn and Varys



How about a slippery steamy slope of slimy saturated swine secretions in front of the mud gate bogging down any soldiers who make landfall so they are simply slaughtered soaked in a sloppy cesspit.



EDIT: I assumed the reference to pig shit was referencing something else, but I didn't remember what until you guys mentioned it above in this thread.

Edited by wolverine, 22 May 2012 - 12:39 AM.


#33 Evamitchelle

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:58 AM

They've also removed him kidnapping his 8-year-old nephew and threatening to have him beaten and raped if Alayaya suffers the same. Also him poisoning Cersei and threatening to break her arm for slapping him. Burning all the hovels on the riverside with less than a hour's notice. Taking all the greyness out of the character is doing him a great disservice in my opinion. Next season it will really look like everyone turned against him because he's a dwarf, while the truth is that most people just don't like him because he makes fun of everybody and because he's done a couple of things the population doesn't like (burning their houses, imposing a curfew, killing prominent citizens without a trial, the clansmen general behaviour etc.).

I don't think Tywin's been whitewashed though. He's more sympathetic, certainly, but he's still doing all the terrible things he did in the books : ordering the gang-rape of a 13-year-old girl, ordering Clegane to go around burning and pillaging the Riverlands, hiring men like the Tickler etc. I don't mind making a character more sympathetic as long as it's done by adding backstory and not removing canonical actions. So while I can get behind Tywin teaching his dyslexic son to read, having Cersei play second fiddle to Joffrey doesn't sit well with me.

#34 MoonCoffee

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:02 AM

They soften a lot of people. Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Shae, Sandor, Arya. The Mountain doesn't have that gangrape story either. HBO may be ready to show gratuitous female nudity and call the show 'adult', but they don't seem ready with humans' ugly side, unless they're "pure evil" like Joffrey.

I like how Tyrion threatens to harm Tommen in the book. He didn't mean it, he genuinely likes the boy and doesn't have the heart to do it, but he has to bluff because otherwise he has no leverage against Cersei. That is political drama.

Edited by MoonCoffee, 22 May 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#35 Evamitchelle

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:12 AM

I like how Tyrion threatens to harm Tommen in the book. He didn't mean it, he genuinely likes the boy and doesn't have the heart to do it, but he has to bluff because otherwise he has no leverage against Cersei. That is political drama.


I'm pretty sure he would have gone through with it if Cersei hadn't managed to get Tommen back while Tyrion was recuperating from the Blackwater. It seems to me that all the Lannisters follow the rule that Jaime enunciates in Feast, basically that a threat is worthless unless you can actually go through with it if need be.

"I promised my sister I would treat Tommen as she treated Alayaya," he remembered aloud. He felt as though he might retch. "How can I scourge an eight-year-old boy ?" But if I don't, Cersei wins. "You don't have Tommen," Bronn said bluntly. [...] Another blow; yet a relief as well, he must admit it. He was fond of Tommen."

This passage only makes sense in the context of Tyrion considering having Tommen whipped. The idea makes him sick, but he would still have done it if Tommen had still been in his possession.

#36 Marjie Eilie Myatt

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:14 AM

I like TV Tyrion better. I have a hard time getting behind him in the books and I want to get behind him.

I'm not sure how this characterization is going to pull off the crossbow-on-the-privy incident, since the person on the receiving end of that hasn't been portrayed (on-screen anyway) as evil enough.

#37 MoonCoffee

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:20 AM

"I promised my sister I would treat Tommen as she treated Alayaya," he remembered aloud. He felt as though he might retch. "How can I scourge an eight-year-old boy ?" But if I don't, Cersei wins. "You don't have Tommen," Bronn said bluntly. [...] Another blow; yet a relief as well, he must admit it. He was fond of Tommen."

This passage only makes sense in the context of Tyrion considering having Tommen whipped. The idea makes him sick, but he would still have done it if Tommen had still been in his possession.

I stand corrected then, on the "doesn't have the heart to do it" part. I still like him though, he only got annoying in Essos. :x

#38 Pellaeon

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:50 AM

I think they want Tyrion to be the new main character of the series, in the books he is a grey character, that may work with the bookreaders but not with the average TV audience, so they have to make him more morally otherwise the viewers would dislike him

#39 Jolene Brown

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:54 AM

On HBO though? With Al Swearingen, Tony Soprano, and Stringer Bell as beloved characters in the past? I definitely feel they are softening things up, and as I read the books, I wondered how they would get away with some of it, but jesus, this is the channel that broadcast oz and deadwood and the sopranoes! It's weird that they seem to be struggling with some of the darker aspects of these books.

#40 Ghost714

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:09 AM

Sorry if someone else mentioned this, but in this episode, when Tyrion was talking to Shae, he said he would kill for her, and that he imagined he will have to before it is all said and done. So I think that the show is setting him up to do something "bad", as far as protecting Shae goes, similarly to how he kills Simon Silver Tongue in the books, or something like that, I imagine.