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[Book Spoilers] Jaqen


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#1 The Smiling Eye

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:07 AM

Besides the WW, best part of the episode IMO.

He's so damn creepy. His face-switch was excellent, it sent chills down my spine.

I just love the faceless men. They are so mysterious, eerie, and a bit frightening to even the viewer.

#2 boojam

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:37 AM

Besides the WW, best part of the episode IMO.

He's so damn creepy. His face-switch was excellent, it sent chills down my spine.

I just love the faceless men. They are so mysterious, eerie, and a bit frightening to even the viewer.


I wonder what contract Tom Wlaschiha signed? One season?

Even with the changes in the kills at Harrenhal were maybe better than George's. They keep Arya's interaction with Jaqen just about as it was in the book.
I love that they kept Arya's trick.
Notice that finally!, Jaqen told her he knew she was Arya Stark?

(To me one of the damned mysteries in the books, not that Jaqen knows she is Arya Stark, but why is he following her?)

And he say's straight out that he is a Faceless Man , I can't remember that in the book, but it's probably there.


#3 Septon Meribald

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:40 AM

And he say's straight out that he is a Faceless Man , I can't remember that in the book, but it's probably there.


He never claims to be a faceless man outright in the books, but the implication is laid on very heavily. I don't know of anyone that doubts this.

#4 Drunken Bard

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:41 AM

The face switch was cool.

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.

#5 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.


agreed, seemed weird. it's one thing for arya, a child, to want to be a faceless man so she can get revenge, its another thing for an actual faceless man to tell her she can get her revenge by becoming a faceless man. it'd be like talking to a police man and the police man tells you that YOU should become a police man so you can get back at all the people who bullied you.

#6 the_jusme

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:58 AM

I've been a little confused regarding the tie between the FM and the Red God on the shows. I know in the book when Jaqen and Arya first talk about the three deaths that are owed he mentions the Red God, but in context that makes sense because the three lives saved were about to die by fire. What's with this latest mention of the Red God in this episode? Is the show telling us that the FM worship the Red God? In the books it seems as if they worship all the gods equally, because it is said that they are all really the same god or something like that. Not a big deal, just wanted to see if anyone else noticed the same tie they are trying to make on the show between the FM and Red God and if that tie is implied in the books (I don't think so).

#7 Lady Octarina

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:02 AM

The face switch was cool.

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.


I didn't understand it that way. To me it seemed he was persuading her to go to Braavos first and see what the FM were all about, and get the opportunity to ask for their deaths. And only later join them. He never says she would be the one to kill the people on her list with FM training.

#8 Septon Meribald

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:17 AM

I've been a little confused regarding the tie between the FM and the Red God on the shows. I know in the book when Jaqen and Arya first talk about the three deaths that are owed he mentions the Red God, but in context that makes sense because the three lives saved were about to die by fire. What's with this latest mention of the Red God in this episode? Is the show telling us that the FM worship the Red God? In the books it seems as if they worship all the gods equally, because it is said that they are all really the same god or something like that. Not a big deal, just wanted to see if anyone else noticed the same tie they are trying to make on the show between the FM and Red God and if that tie is implied in the books (I don't think so).


In the books the Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God, but he is known by many names. It seems to be that any one is as good as another. Jaqen H'gar is a man from Lorath who apparently follows the Red God. To me it was about not not breaking character, because obviously in reality he is no-one.

#9 saryan

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

Maybe this is Jaqen engaging in a little FM practical joke in retaliation for her giving him his own name…he’s tricking her into going all the way to Braavos on the pretext of being able to take out all of her enemies, only for her to get there and discover the FM are not about personal revenge! /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />

Seriously, though, I agree that him telling her that is weird. Although…there are also weird things about Jaqen in the book that don’t always seem to match precisely with the FM, as has been discussed in other threads….most notably that he tells her he will kill his own father if she orders him too. He is also killing people he obviously does know at least in passing at her command.

There may be a simple explanation for this (ie, paying back the God trumps knowing or not knowing your target), but we don’t yet have enough information about either the FM or Jaqen himself to know for sure. It could be his statement about revenge is an extension of this (potential) contradiction in how he operates.

#10 Drunken Bard

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

I didn't understand it that way. To me it seemed he was persuading her to go to Braavos first and see what the FM were all about, and get the opportunity to ask for their deaths. And only later join them. He never says she would be the one to kill the people on her list with FM training.


Yes but even though at this point in the books we didn't know this, the faceless men don't get to ask for anyone's death, especially deaths of those they despise. That would kind of defeat the purpose of throwing away your old life.

#11 Drunken Bard

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:25 AM

Maybe this is Jaqen engaging in a little FM practical joke in retaliation for her giving him his own name…he’s tricking her into going all the way to Braavos on the pretext of being able to take out all of her enemies, only for her to get there and discover the FM are not about personal revenge! /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />

Seriously, though, I agree that him telling her that is weird. Although…there are also weird things about Jaqen in the book that don’t always seem to match precisely with the FM, as has been discussed in other threads….most notably that he tells her he will kill his own father if she orders him too. He is also killing people he obviously does know at least in passing at her command.

There may be a simple explanation for this (ie, paying back the God trumps knowing or not knowing your target), but we don’t yet have enough information about either the FM or Jaqen himself to know for sure. It could be his statement about revenge is an extension of this (potential) contradiction in how he operates.


Id have to agree with you there about Jaqen, i don't think hes your average faceless man, if he even is one, especially with the Jaqen/Alchemist stuff.

Edited by Drunken Bard, 04 June 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#12 boojam

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:30 AM

The face switch was cool.

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.


You are right, tho it's a little oblique, so I don't know how D and D are going to handle this later.
I wish they would drop the Red God stuff!


#13 boojam

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:04 PM

I've been a little confused regarding the tie between the FM and the Red God on the shows. I know in the book when Jaqen and Arya first talk about the three deaths that are owed he mentions the Red God, but in context that makes sense because the three lives saved were about to die by fire. What's with this latest mention of the Red God in this episode? Is the show telling us that the FM worship the Red God? In the books it seems as if they worship all the gods equally, because it is said that they are all really the same god or something like that. Not a big deal, just wanted to see if anyone else noticed the same tie they are trying to make on the show between the FM and Red God and if that tie is implied in the books (I don't think so).


My feeling is that , writing time wise, George when he got to writing about the details of FM , he kinda forgot about some of the things Jaqen had said in CoK. The horse was out of the barn , he was not going to go back and rewrite Jaqen's dialog.


#14 Lady Octarina

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:16 PM

Yes but even though at this point in the books we didn't know this, the faceless men don't get to ask for anyone's death, especially deaths of those they despise. That would kind of defeat the purpose of throwing away your old life.


I agree, but I meant that she could ask before joining the FM. Maybe going to Braavos and learning about the local culture before being trained to become a FM, who knows?

But anyway, what I do think more likely is that he simply said that to attract her to the FM after seeing that she could be useful for his "order", or whatever they are. Not to mention all the theories claiming they have a secret agenda concerning Arya, so... who knows?

#15 Dontos the Slim

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:10 PM

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.


We (two book readers) last night took this as almost a kind of recruiting pitch for the Faceless Men, you know, not entirely accurate and enough to pique the interest of the recruiting target. Kinda like the U.S. military.

Of course, there is still no real guidance on why Arya Stark would be that high-value of a recruiting target.

#16 Reposado

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:14 PM

agreed, seemed weird. it's one thing for arya, a child, to want to be a faceless man so she can get revenge, its another thing for an actual faceless man to tell her she can get her revenge by becoming a faceless man. it'd be like talking to a police man and the police man tells you that YOU should become a police man so you can get back at all the people who bullied you.

This probably happens all the time, but maybe not so overtly. why do you think people become cops?

I don't like how Jaqen told Arya that she can get revenge for all people she wants dead, not really what the Faceless Men are all about.


it's not what book faceless men are about. show faceless men may be all about it

#17 Drunken Bard

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:22 PM

This probably happens all the time, but maybe not so overtly. why do you think people become cops?



it's not what book faceless men are about. show faceless men may be all about it


True that

#18 boojam

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

We (two book readers) last night took this as almost a kind of recruiting pitch for the Faceless Men, you know, not entirely accurate and enough to pique the interest of the recruiting target. Kinda like the U.S. military.

Of course, there is still no real guidance on why Arya Stark would be that high-value of a recruiting target.


A long running mystery.
I don't think a FM would be 'shadowing' Arya Stark (and he does know who she is)without some reason.
... and remember Jaqen's wish that she come to Braavos , does come true.


#19 Gerdan_Redsnow

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

We (two book readers) last night took this as almost a kind of recruiting pitch for the Faceless Men, you know, not entirely accurate and enough to pique the interest of the recruiting target. Kinda like the U.S. military.

Of course, there is still no real guidance on why Arya Stark would be that high-value of a recruiting target.


High Born Lady - having the ears of many Northern Lords which could give them a route into intelligence they would not have got otherwise?

#20 StarkWard

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:40 PM

Do we even know if the Faceless men think of themselves as a "we', or simply as individuals with missions? They don't exactly bond over there, at least not enough to think of the good of the institution, or be concerned on how their organization can get more information. I thought of them as a "we work alone and don't care about the other of us" type.