The history and origins of the Maesters

[Ser Leftwich]

The maesters are ubiquitous in Westeros. What do we know about the history and origins of the maesters and the Citadel? Frankly, very little. They are based in Oldtown and House Hightower has been a long time patron.

Besides being the keepers of the ravens, maesters serve as general scholars. History books referred to by different characters, Sam and Rodrik “The Reader” Harlaw, which lead to possible discrepancies in the timeline of events with the when of the Andal invasion being a major hinge in Heresy.

The writing down of history after the Andal invasion is of vital importance in that the First Men did not have writing, as such, and left only runes on rocks and presumably oral histories. Sam mentions that the earliest histories were written by Septons, the priests of the Faith of the Seven which shows a relationship between the written language of the Andals and the Faith. This is not to say they were all eminent scholars or even all literate, as is the case in current times as we learn from Septon Meribald, but that literacy and scholarship was part of the Faith.

At some point the Stary Sept, the ‘Vatican City’ of Faith of the Seven is built in Oldtown. What made the Faith use Oldtown? Oldtown is one of the oldest and largest cites in Westeros, well established before the Andal invasion. A large city is a good place to have a psychological impact on the collective culture of Westeros. Oldtown is also the site of the Citadel, the school of the Maesters. We do not know how old the Citadel is or how long maesters have operated in Westeros. All we have is in the AFfC appendix a description that the Hightower family has been a longtime patron of the Citadel. Also, the description given of the Citadel in AFfC, prominent features an ancient weirwood on the Isle of Ravens which has been there a long time and possibly pre-dates the Andal invasion of Westeros.

A major duty of the maesters is to act as postmen, writing and reading correspondence, via ravens. From the ADwD Bran chapters, we have evidence of the ravens being used as messengers by the CotF and that practice being passed on to the First Men from the CotF. We do not know how old the Citadel is or how long maesters have operated in Westeros, but it is hard to discount some relationship between the maesters use of ravens and the CotF use of ravens. I propose that the origins of the maesters lie in kind of ‘priesthood’ of the religion that the First Men adopted/developed from the CotF and the maesters learned ravenry as well as other practices from the CotF.

The Faith of the Seven establishes itself in Oldtown and, along with Andal culture in general, forces the maesters into a secondary and sub-servient role of importance, but did not completely obliterate maesterdom as communication by raven was, and still is, far too valuable to lose. The skills and knowledge of the maesters, even as far back as the Andal invasion likely extended beyond raven communication; there was much to learn from the maesters and no real reason to wipe them out. This holds with the theme of co-opting religious and cultural practices of conquered peoples. Maesters pick up writing from the Faith, along with the rest of Westeros. At some point maesters start writing books and histories along with septons.

There are all kinds of add-on extensions with assumptions, theories, and what-ifs that are possible along this line of thought, including but in no way limited to the following:

Why are there discrepancies in the timeline according to different books/authors? Deliberate action taken by some maesters to distance the entire organization of the Citadel from the CotF, with other maesters trying to accurate history.

Marwyn leads readers to believe the current leaders of the Citadel as being skeptical of magic and possibly actively trying to limit/destroy knowledge of magic in the general world of Westeros or even more. (See the maesters-killed-the-dragons conspiracy) Which may be an extension of the Citadel distancing itself from the CotF and magic.

Why are godswoods in castles so prevalent? That is were the ravens used to roost at castles.

Why do maesters drop the family name and take celibacy/service vows? Similar to the NW celibacy/loyalty vow, but we do not know which is older or if there is any relationship between the two organizations.

There seems to be a lot of mistrust of the maesters in the Iron Islands, why?

Thoughts?

(This is a modified version of a post from the Heresy thread, but I wanted to expose it the whole community to prompt a larger discussion about the Maesters.)

[Black Crow]

I'm not sure about this dislike of magic business. The CoTF so far as we can see practice natural magic, through the weirwoods, the warging or skinchanging of animals and so on. All very shamanistic. What they appear to be against is scienticic magic - pyromancy and some of the other "mancies" as well, which is why they're agin Qyburn's necromancy - and the dragons, who are of course fire.

[Ser Leftwich]

Another example of politicised maesters are the various history writers that Hoster tells us of maesters for the Blackwood and Bracken familes writing skewed histories in favor of one family or the other.

BC. I agree about the aversion to active/scientific magic.

Also, there are the glass candles that Marwyn is using. While we know that obsidian is naturally occurring rock, I wonder if there are any special properties imbued to obsian that was made from dragonfire, which should be hoy enough to make some obsidian.

Why to the maesters have glass candles? Novelties to study or more.

[Ghost of Groat]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/71410-the-long-term-game-of-the-citadel/

[Ser Leftwich]

http://asoiaf.wester...of-the-citadel/

I agree the build-up/abuse of magic by Valyria is almost definitely related to its destruction. But by almost any and every proposed timeline I have seen/read, the first appearence of the White Walkers/Others comes before the rise of Valyria.

[Ghost of Groat]

I agree the build-up/abuse of magic by Valyria is almost definitely related to its destruction. But by almost any and every proposed timeline I have seen/read, the first appearence of the White Walkers/Others comes before the rise of Valyria.

True. But the bottling up of the WW via the Wall is what caused the magical plumbing to pop in my theory.

[blackwing]

The maesters are the force of enlightenment in the world of ASoIaF. Their political agenda is that the wise and learned should rule, not the superstitious, not the wielders of magic and not the solely powerful. To achieve this goal, they first made themselves indispensable as communication clerks and chronists (and used those positions for their aims), then as teachers for the children of the powerful. By education they try to advance their agenda over generations. Maester Luwin teaching Bran, downsizing his dreams and throwing all the weight of his authority against the existence of magic is the prime example. That's also why they destroyed the dragons, which were the foundation of the Targaryens' power. I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some hand in the eventual schism between the men of the north and the CotF. If there is some grand conspiracy theory linking all that's going on in Westeros and some of what's been going on beyond, it should have the maesters in its center imo. These guys seem to think really large. But what really puzzles me is, why the heck did they leave someone like Pycelle in charge in KL after the rebellion? Why not someone a little younger and less burdened with links to the past regime (which the maesters helped to destroy or at least undermined); someone who might have exercised a little more influence on things?

[red fork]

I think the maesters and their agenda is one of the most subtle plots of all... they're up tp *something* but we don't know what... can't wait to find out!

[jons nissa]

i hadn't thought of the comparison to the vatican (i really must read those heresy threads but there are so darn many of them) but i can see this being a logical assumption. this makes sense as an explanation of the what but are there theories to the why? can we assume that like the vatican, they are extremely influential politcally and commercially?

i do believe the maesters are anti magic. this is logical since magic can be considered the antithesis of knowledge. is ridding westeros of magic what they are after? were they somehow involved with the death of the old dragons? is this all they are interested in or do they have other political ambitions? the vatican could be downright machiavellian!

sadly we're not told much about their political dealings, are we? in light of this, i think the fact that there are maesters in each of the major houses of westeros is intereting. conspiracy theory, anyone? they are also present in lesser homes, i imagine so it is feasible that they are connected to virtually everything that is happening in westeros.

with the exception of the wall. at one of the most critical moments in the history of the nightwatch - a rising of the others - there is no maester at the wall. does this mean they are getting no information? what might that mean?

[Ser Leftwich]

The analogy to the Vatican was that the Faith of the Seven is based in Oldtown, not that the Citadel/Maesters are based there. To further the analogy, the Catholic Church set up in the city of Rome, which used to be the center of power for the biggest oppresser, the Roman Empire.

The Faith of the Seven set up in Oldtown to oppress the Maesters, but the Maesters have survived.

[Ser Leftwich]

snip

But what really puzzles me is, why the heck did they leave someone like Pycelle in charge in KL after the rebellion? Why not someone a little younger and less burdened with links to the past regime (which the maesters helped to destroy or at least undermined); someone who might have exercised a little more influence on things?

There have been a number of threads about why Pycelle is/was loyal to the Lannisters. Was/is Pycelle really being loyal to the Lannisters or looking for an option that got the Targaryen's out of power?

Have we ever had any information about Pycelle's opinion of Rhaegar? That is something that I would really like to learn about.

[Son of the Smiling Knight]

The maesters are the force of enlightenment in the world of ASoIaF. Their political agenda is that the wise and learned should rule, not the superstitious, not the wielders of magic and not the solely powerful. To achieve this goal, they first made themselves indispensable as communication clerks and chronists (and used those positions for their aims), then as teachers for the children of the powerful. By education they try to advance their agenda over generations. Maester Luwin teaching Bran, downsizing his dreams and throwing all the weight of his authority against the existence of magic is the prime example. That's also why they destroyed the dragons, which were the foundation of the Targaryens' power. I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some hand in the eventual schism between the men of the north and the CotF. If there is some grand conspiracy theory linking all that's going on in Westeros and some of what's been going on beyond, it should have the maesters in its center imo. These guys seem to think really large. But what really puzzles me is, why the heck did they leave someone like Pycelle in charge in KL after the rebellion? Why not someone a little younger and less burdened with links to the past regime (which the maesters helped to destroy or at least undermined); someone who might have exercised a little more influence on things?

So your saying the maesters are the Illuminati of the Westeros world.

[blackwing]

So your saying the maesters are the Illuminati of the Westeros world.

Well, they surely have their own ideas about how the world should be and how it should be ruled. And their activities span a very long time and seem to forward their ideology. Of course not everything that happened is their doing, but they surely meddle(d) with the fate of the world of ASoIaF. So yeah, them and the different religions (including the faceless men), like the noblity can be regarded as big players.

[Hempen Dan the Ropemaker]

I do think the maesters are anti magic, but that begs the question, are they anti magic for ideological reasons or pragmatic reasons? Meaning do they want to destroy magic because they honestly believe science and reason are the best path to human happiness and success, or do they just want to make themselves the most powerful people through their control of knowledge?

When Sam goes to the citadel, we see the sphinxes and glass cAndles and valyrian steel, are the maesters hoarding magic for themselves and destroying it elsewhere?

Also, if they are anti magic, does that make them more inclined to fight the others, or less inclined because they think it is bs? Maybe they have a secret backup plan to kill others?

[AdXRoss]

Although the Maesters are presented as the keepers of scientific learning and rationalism, their development seems quite different from that of the real scholars of the Renaissance and early modern period, in that the Maesters have that monastic tendency, which makes them in many ways parallels the church scholars of the high middle ages, with that one vital component, faith, being the missing link.

I think the balance of rationality and religion is again the one area where GRRM has moved Westeros away from the real middle ages, because the Maesters represent a secular intellectual authority without a true parallel. The origins of the modern scientific establishment lay largely with hobbyists and independent amateurs, before being more formalised in the emerging university system across Europe throughout the Renaissance, but culminating significantly as late as the 18th century. Considering how rapid European scientific progress was once the empirical method became commonplace, it does seem a little odd that the rationalist, empiricalist Maesters had done more in advancing Westerosi civilization, especially for an order with a long history and continuity.

Admittedly this says little about their apparent origins, but I'm unsure these appear to be entirely religious in basis.

[The Sound of Truth]

As boring as this sounds, I don't think that the Maesters as a whole have some remarkable backstory or grand scheme. Some of the individuals probably do, but I don't think that there is a wide-ranging Maeseter Conspiracy going on.

Civilizations need scholars/teachers/advisors. The Maesters fill this role nicely, but I think that is as far as it goes.

[Ser Leftwich]

The likelyhood of a Maester Conspiracy seems unlikely. However, the Archmaesters can pull some strings: the replacement Grand Maesters for Pycelle they choose is Mace Tyrell's uncle Gorman or the other two finalists being peasants.

It is yet to be seen as to the importance of the past maester of Winterfell, Maester Walys.

The telling importance of the maesters and Oldtown for me is that Samwell has gone there. That means there are important events to come.

Also, Jaqen H'ghar. He must be up to more than a Westeros vacation.

[Ghost of Groat]

Also, Jaqen H'ghar. He must be up to more than a Westeros vacation.

A man needs some downtime.

[Ser Leftwich]

*bump*

Recently another question came up, plainly put, why do maesters wear chains?

1) Advanced metalwork seems to have come to Westeros with the Andals.

2) Chains are usually associated with prisoners or captives.

3) The maesters wears chains and are servants to the realm.

What better way to metaphorically (and possibly literally, in some magical metal property way) make this priesthood of the First Men into a servant class.

Crackpot extension on the theory: the First Men from all over Westeros sent male children that exhibited any kind of magical ability to be trained at the Citadel (or whatever it was called). We have Bran having the dream of the chained wolf, perhaps the greenseers were more actively trained in the past.

[SherlockHodor]

*bump*

I agree with AdXRoss, the Maesters seem more rationalistic and less faith-based compared to actual monks and learned men in the Middle Ages. I've been thumbing through my copy of AGoT and I can't find any quotations that directly deal with scientific investigation either, which if they had you would expect would lead to more science and tech than they have.

For example, lenses are mentioned in the books and perhaps telescopes. Those were enough in the real world for astronomical observations to happen, which then led Newton to prove Kepler's 3 Laws within a few hundred years. Yet Westeros is thousands of years old at this point. And if they have science but haven't been able to get anything from it, it's not clear why the Maesters would be so gung-ho about it. There are still people in the 21st century who would openly question science if it wasn't so involved in our daily lives.