Mental Illness in ASoIaF

[Woman of War]

Here we have Tyrion and his state at the beginning of ADWD:

The term reactive depression is a category of clinical depression. It refers to an inappropriate state of depression that is precipitated by events in the person's life (to be distinguished from normal grief) arising as a consequence of severe life events, for example the loss of home in a fire. It should be distinguished from PTSD which has more pronounced anxiety features and characteristic patterns of flashbacks etc. Reactive depression must be considered in relationship to the events that caused it, severe traumatic events would be expected to produce reactive depression. Such depression becomes a clinical concern if the depression lasts too long without signs of recovery, or if the depression becomes too deep, for example, leading to suicidal feelings. In many cases, reactive depressions resolve themselves as the individual copes and recovers from the event. If the depression becomes a clinical concern then treatment may be necessary. Reactive depression may be complicated by a history of poor coping, use of alcohol or other drugs or by an extremely poor support system.

, from psychology wikia

So at which moment a reactive depression is no longer considered appropriate to the severity of the situation and can be seen as clinical, i.e. as disease, is a very fine line. In Tyrion's case we had alcohol abuse already before his killings of his father and Shae, he certainly has an extremely poor support system - but does he cope poorly ? What is the adequate degree of "coping" if you have just murdered your father and your lover?

Tyrion's whole adult life was a reaction on the despise by others for the cripple, that trauma of sexual abuse when he was thirteen, his father's devious method of having him participate in the guilt. Would he not be a less normal person if he had superficially "coped" with all that? Isn't the one that "copes" the dead one inside, the disturbed one? Is a certain degree of non-healthy reactions not the normal answer of a not yet destroyed, still emphatic mind?

Or take Arya. In our world children with comparable traumata like child soldiers are seen as in need of intensive therapeutic help. But out there somewhere in Africa are thousands of kids who somehow have to go on living without help. They eat, they work and may even have families - and may still be dead inside forever. And some manage to stay human, to transform their experiences into productive work for a community.

And then you have the victims of belated PTSD who seem to have "coped" all their life after having survived concentration camps as victims or war scenarios as the guilty ones. And in old age the they simply break, their defense mechanisms are down and PTSD and depression get them.

Only in between they may have "coped", survived as heroes or denied their crimes. But there are countless stories about inability to maintain relationships, emotionlessness towards children and being less functional in day to day tasks, everything covered up because a manly man has to "cope" and a woman only suffered what her fate as woman is anyway. And one generation later their children turned out to be traumatized.

Countless rapes around WW II happened, a hundred thousand times as many as got known. For various reasons and in different political systems it was not politically correct to mention them. The women never got any recognition of their sufferings. Their men returned from war, many did not, the women brought up their kids, all of them, they were expected to shut up about those rapes as part of war guilt (I may write about this, this is no belittling of German crimes but an analysis of what war does to people . I myself am half Jewish and my mother survived in exile). Or more recent the use of rape as weapon in Bosnia against the Muslim population.

I described all that to illustrate that Westeros must be a totally destructive society full of broken people. But wasn't the European Medieval ages as well ? How will you draw here the line betwween mentally disturbed and normal? There are those few where you can diagnose schizophrenia or borderline if a reader is a psychologist. And if those are in power the kingdom is in deep sh.t. But the whole society is a deeply broken one.

So I wonder who in Westeros is not suffering from some kind of mental disorder, maybe those privileged kids of nobility who are allowed to grow up in protected circumstances and who knew nothing about reality when it hit them.

Were people numbed and did simply not grieve anymore because everyone would have gone mad otherwise?

E. g. the attachment of mothers towards their newborn was far weaker, medieval mothers would be seen as dysfunctional today - they had to protect themselves from breakdown, every third or second child did not survive the first years, a reactive depression might have led the rest of the family into starvation, read E. Badinter about maternity.

And what does that alleged emotional disaster of Westeros tell us about Martin's story? Can we see parent-child relationships the way we are used to today? How much love did Fathers have for daughters they sold like cattle? Was there ANY love relationship not dysfunctional?

This si a little away from topic and very long, sorry. But what is mental health here?

Hard to tell for me as non pschologist.

[Gandalf the Grey]

Various psychoses can manifest themselves through the belief that one is a prophet, and has had direct contact with their God. Damphair and Melisandre, and the High Sparrow (to a lesser extent) are examples of this. I guess you could say that this is more of a symptom than a disorder.

Edit: Most of this depends on nature v nurture.

People's environments were far more traumatic, so I'm sure many many disorders have been developed by people in Westeros, yet that is different to being born with a genetic predisposition. Targaryen madness is genetic, yet most of Sandor's problems are probably because he was almost burned alive at a very young age.

[Lady Storm]

This is a little away from topic and very long, sorry. But what is mental health here?

Hard to tell for me as non pscholgist.

That is a good question, and I like your post a lot - the line between sick and is generally a thin and unnatural one.

One can still be functional and have an illness, depending on both the requests of the society and the degree and type of illness.

This is why I can be quite certain that there's something severely wrong with Joffrey, whether we call it conduct disorder or psychopathy, and the decision is more of a practical one is he still a child?) than it is based on content.

However, Robert sound like he might also be suffering from an illness, an my fist guess would be atypical depression. I cannot know this, but he's showing a whole bunch of symptoms: weight gain and increased appetite, he's moody, his attitude towards perceived rejection and humiliation and the results this has in his social life, self-medication with alcohol (typical for men with depression in general) etc. However, this and some more could also be a sign of adult ADHD. And yet, it could all just be a bunch of character traits and consequences of the war, Lyanna, dynamics with Cersei and Arryn etc. and have no significant diagnostic value.

So he's a good example of not really being able to determine is he "ill" or a product of the society he lives in.

Both Tyrion and Cersei have been showing signs of having some psychological issues before the recent events, but IMO not enough to determine that hey have a psychological illness. And while they are both quite disturbed now, it's still early to tell whether or not this will leave permanent consequences in the form of an illness. I cannot predict how much time must pass for us to say "OK, that's enough, this is clearly too much" because every person grieves in their own way and time. But there is a certain, individual point in the grieving process when either a professional or the person itself can say - this is going beyond grief. Usually, it includes some of the following: the person is not getting better but worse, some of the more prominent reactions, like hallucinations and complete inability to function are lasting for a very long time, the person seems to be transferring her grief to every single aspect of functioning, no joy or moments of forgetting return in regards to any activity etc.

[RadLad]

Cersei has Penis envy from what I have seen,due to the fact she has actually referred,rather wistfully,to not being born with a penis.

This is not a mental illness at all,just a Fruedian theory.

"She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy. She sees the solution as obtaining her father's penis."

Sigmund you mad bastard,stay off the coke

[Batman]

Cersei - Antisocial personality disorder

Renly - Narcassitic personality disorder

Robert - Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

Sansa - Dependant personality disorder

Dany - Narcissistic personality disorder

Podrick - Avoidant personality disorder

[Mladen]

Is there any normal character, to be sure of? I don`t think so...

[Lord Toblerone]

Achondroplasia. (Take a guess)

???

Not a mental illness!

[Gandalf the Grey]

Cersei - Antisocial personality disorder

Renly - Narcassitic personality disorder

Robert - Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

Sansa - Dependant personality disorder

Dany - Narcissistic personality disorder

Podrick - Avoidant personality disorder

Cersei- penis envy, and being a ruthless meanie certainly. She twisted Tyrion's penis when he was just a little boy.

Renly- He's certainly arrogant, but does definitely not suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.

Robert- I would agree that he possibly has ADHD

Sansa- Is in a position where she's dependent on others, rather than being chronically dependent.

Dany- shows some of the criteria

Podrick- I'm hoping for a POV to see what's going through his mind.

[Lothar Imbel]

Stannis - Social anxiety/mild aspergers syndrome?

[Gandalf the Grey]

Stannis - Social anxiety/mild aspergers syndrome?

Yes! I really agree with slight Aspergers.

[Le.Chevalier.D'Eon]

Keep in mind that we're looking at it from our own modern perspective. And we are today guilty of not holding people accountable for their choices and instead using mental illness or mental incapacity as the reason. The ideal person would be well-centered, well-socialized, and well-adjusted, but that is not most people in even our society. Just because you're not perfectly centered does not mean you have an illness. Look around and you will see people who do not quite have it together, but are not mentally ill.

The following are people who are just jackasses, not mentally ill:

Joffrey (in the books, not the show)

Viserys

Mago

Cersei

Jaime (book Jaime)

Rob Arryn

The following suffer from mental illness:

Aerys

Ramsay (the kid that tortured little animals idea)

Arya Stark (Definitely a head case)

Lysa Arryn

Patchface

possibly the Hound (there's definite emotional disability there, but whether he has congenital illness is ?)

Normal, just dumb:

Sansa Stark

[Gandalf the Grey]

^That is so right, sort of what I was trying to say.

I would consider moving Joffrey to the list of mentally ill though, because of the whole business with the cat....

(And Robin is still probably epileptic)

I actually think Sansa is a pretty typical teenage girl.

[LuisDantas]

Aspergers in Stannis? Based on what? The guy is quite perceptive and quite articulated.

Now, severe megalomania, now we are talking business.

[Le.Chevalier.D'Eon]

Was Joff torturing a cat? If so, yeah, he would be pretty messed up.

[Sailing the sunset sea]

Why do people think that gutting a cat is the symptom of a mental illness? It hints at a lack of empathy and sadistic tendencies, but in itself those are not mental illnesses.

People are handing out diagnoses left and right and little of them are plausible. How about reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10-CM

[Lothar Imbel]

Aspergers in Stannis? Based on what? The guy is quite perceptive and quite articulated.

Now, severe megalomania, now we are talking business.

Social anxiety - particuarly around women, his lack of empathy and friendships, his interests basically being limited to justice and warfare, and arguably the order and structure justice creates would appeal to someone with aspergers.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Rhaegar, Jon- depression

Joff, Ramsay, Gregor, -Not sociopaths but paranoids

Sandor PTSD with melancholy and phobia

Arya- Borderline personality disorder and OCD

Cersei- sociopathy paranoia

Dany- Narcissistic personality disorder

Viserys - Schizoid personality disorder

[Lothar Imbel]

Arya having OCD - based on what?

[Sailing the sunset sea]

I don't think Arya has OCD, she is far to little obsessed with routines for that to be the case....

[Last of the Darklyns]

I don't think that Joffrey was mentally ill - he was a spoiled brat who felt that he had the right to power and that ruling a kingdom meant that everyone did what he wanted (or got punished), not that he had to do things for his people. He also wasn't very mature for his age and probably didn't understand exactly what death was, which could cause some to view him as mentally ill.