Arya's Destiny?

[Whitering]

The original FM were former slaves of Valyria, working in those terrible mines. Certainly reason for the FM to want to destroy the Dragon lords, but they've existed side-by-side with the dragons since, why kill them now?

It doesn't seem as if they ever sent agents to Westeros to kill the Targayrens, nor even known Blackfyres, so the theory that Arya might be sent to kill Dany or Aegon, doesn't make sense, because why now?

But if "Aegon" himself is a true Blackfyre, then sending Arya to kill Dany only would be very telling.

Ahh, but the Dragons of Westeros banned slavery, adopted a different faith and while a little bit of a wonky family generally didn't butcher the common folk more than any other noble family during times of war.

Arya is more in her apprenticeship phase where before I suppose she was just like an intern. She can still bail on becoming a full fledged FM, but it will require some piece of news that moves her from her present life. She didn't think about Winterfell at all in ADWD.

Maybe hearing that Jon was stabbed would do it, but I don't know.

[Dark Heart]

Let us talk about the "Alchemist" now.

Which was passing strange, because that was what the stranger had said the night Rosey brought the two of them together. “Who are you?” Pate had demanded of him, and the man had replied, “An alchemist. I can change iron into gold.” And then the coin was in his hand, dancing across his knuckles, the soft yellow gold shining in the candlelight. On one side was a three-headed dragon, on the other the head of some dead king. Gold for iron, Pate remembered, you won’t do better. Do you want her? Do you love her? “I am no thief,” he had told the man who called himself the alchemist, “I am a novice of the Citadel.” The alchemist had bowed his head, and said, “If you should reconsider, I shall return here three days hence, with my dragon.”

“The tales are not the same,” insisted Armen. “Dragons in Asshai, dragons in Qarth, dragons in Meereen, Dothraki dragons, dragons freeing slaves . . . each telling differs from the last.”

“Only in details.” Mollander grew more stubborn when he drank, and even when sober he was bullheaded. “All speak of dragons, and a beautiful young queen.”

The only dragon Pate cared about was made of yellow gold. He wondered what had happened to the alchemist. The third day. He said he’d be here.

He can change things, dragons and number 3 are mentioned often.

The whole chapter is full with dragons and number 3.

Alleras would make a maester. He had only been at the Citadel for a year, yet already he had forged three links of his maester’s chain.

“The dragon has three heads,” he announced in his soft Dornish drawl.

“Leo. My lord. I had understood that you were still confined to the Citadel for . . .”

“. . . three more days.” Lazy Leo shrugged. “Perestan says the world is forty thousand years old. Mollos says five hundred thousand. What are three days, I ask you?”

“The mongrel has the right of it. The Mad King’s daughter is alive, and she’s hatched herself three dragons.”

“Three?” said Roone, astonished.

Leo patted his hand. “More than two and less than four. I would not try for my golden link just yet if I were you.”

Also, isn't it interesting that the alchemist kills in the same way as Arya will make her first kill?

“I want my dragon.”

“To be sure.” The coin appeared. The alchemist made it walk across his knuckles, the way he had when Rosey brought the two of them together. In the morning light the dragon glittered as it moved, and gave the alchemist’s fingers a golden glow.

Pate grabbed it from his hand. The gold felt warm against his palm. He brought it to his mouth and bit down on it the way he’d seen men do. If truth be told, he wasn’t sure what gold should taste like, but he did not want to look a fool.

The same deadly coin.

Also, the coin Arya took was a gold dragon too.

The kindly man was waiting for her at the House of Black and White, seated on the edge of the temple pool. The ugly girl sat next to him and put a coin on the lip of the pool between them. It was gold, with a dragon on one face and a king on the other.

“The golden dragon of Westeros,” said the kindly man. “And how did you come by this? We are no thieves.”

“It wasn’t stealing. I took one of his, but I left him one of ours.”

The kindly man understood. “And with that coin and the others in his purse, he paid a certain man. Soon after that man’s heart gave out. Is that the way of it? Very sad.” The priest picked up the coin and tossed it into the pool. “You have much and more to learn, but it may be you are not hopeless.”

Coincidence? I think not. :lol:

[evita mgfs]

In reading an Arya POV chapter in ACoK, I noticed once again references to the senses, only in this POV, the dominant sensory perception is the auditory represented by people speaking, people’s ears, people hearing what another says, people making vows, people or situations silenced or quieted, and so on.What follows are examples from this Arya POV chapter.

1. Arya suggests that she and Hot Pie spit in Ser Amory’s food. Hot Pie protests, but Arya justifies the act by saying Amory cannot taste “spit” (676). [spit comes from the mouth; one of our methods of communicating is through our mouths, and saliva moisturizes our mouths].
   
2. Arya filches a tart and “ate it on her way out. It was stuffed with chopped nuts, fruit, and cheese, the crust flaky and still warm” (676). Eating one of Ser Amory’s tarts makes Arya feel bold. This instance fits the taste component of the five senses.]
   
3. When Arya prowls the halls of Harrenhal, she makes “no more noise than a mouse” (676). [Arya’s no noise is the antithesis of noise. In the HoB&W, even a whisper can be heard. It also references the HoB&W].
   
4. Syrio had told her once that darkness could be her friend” (676). [This references what Bloodraven tells Bran].
   
5. Arya echoes her dancing master when she says to Hit Pie: “Listen with your ears, not with your mouth” (676). [it is ironic that Arya schools Hot Pie with Syrio’s lesson; Arya becomes the teacher and the alpha of their pack.]
   
6. “Barefoot surefoot lightfoot, she sang under her breath. I am the ghost in Harrenhal” (676). [The skills of sneaking around and listening to whispers are traits Arya is already developing, for in the future, she will be an acolyte for Him of Many-Faces.]
   
7. Arya hears the war horns’ blast that announces the return of the Bloody Mummers. [Arya hates the Bloody Mummers of HarrenHell, but she loves them in Braavos. Therefore, I see her working with an acting troupe as part of her independent study with the Faceless men.]
   
8. A line of carts were rumbling. [Yet another auditory reference of many in this POV.]
   
9. “The riders escorting the carts spoke in a babble of queer tongues” (677). [This is a nod the the CoF who sing in a language called the old tongue – which the First Men knew now forgotten in Winterfell.
   
10. “Ayra withdrew a little deeper into the shadows, and watched . . .” (667). [With all the watching Arya does, she again reminds me of the Night’s Watch. Her shrinking into shadows intimates her service to Him of Many faces. Arya is the dark shadow that gifts men their passage to the shadowlands. Also, in Greek mythology, a “shade” or “shadow” is the term Homer employs to depict the dead in the Halls of Hades. So Arya shirking in the shadows literally and figuratively suggests death].
    
11. Arya wants to be out of sight before someone notices her (679). [she is okay becoming invisible, a no one, just as in the HoB&W.]
    
12. “The noise dwindled behind her” (679)
    
13. “In the commotion, it was not hard for Arya to slip off unseen.
    
14. A swirling wind gusted, drawing a high shivery scream from the cracks in the Wailing Tower” (679). [While Arya is in residence at HarrenHell, she resides in the Wailing Tower, which is apt considering the ordeals she must endure while there].
    
15. “Leaves had begun to fall from the trees in the godswood, and she could hear them moving through the deserted courtyards and between the empty buildings, making a faint skittering sound as the wind drove them across the stones” (679). [The leaves make me think of Bran who communicates with Jon through the heart tree and to Theon who thinks the leaves are talking to him].
    
16. “Sometimes the stones seemed to drink up noise, shrouding the yards in a blanket of silence” (679). [This is a neat example of personification of the stones, for they drink up the “noise”, or absorb the noise like what a modern day sound-proofed room does. The personified stones bring to mind two characters who are associated with stone:
    

1. Lady Stonehart, the late Catelyn Stark whose heart has turned to stone after suffering through the ill fates of her children, even watching her eldest son, her first baby boy, stabbed to death by traitors. On as symbolic level, UnCat drinks of the river instead of drinking up the noise. UnCat is also silent, her throat having been slit, so it works with “blanket of silence.”
   
2. Stones are one of the inanimate, representatives of the basic elements, which are associated with Howland Reed.
   

1. “Sounds did queer things here [the godswood]” (679). [We learn later in DwD the significance of the godhood that resides in the heart tree.]
   
2. “The echoes had a life of their own, so every footfall became the tread of a ghostly army, and every distant voice a ghostly feast (679). [iMO, Arya may be foreshadowing the rising of the dead from the Winterfell crypts. Moreover, the ghostly feast reminds me of Jon’s dream where he sees his father Ned and feasting at the table of the dead (679].
   
3. All of a sudden, Arya knew why her feet had brought her there (680). [Arya’s feet are significant, for the priest serving Him of Many Faces says that he will take Arya’s feet, her hands, etc.]
   
4. Gendry cautions Arya not to try to escape because if she is caught, Vargo Hoat will cut off her hands and feet (680). [This brings to mind the kindly man who tells Arya she will have to give up all of herself, among the list of sacrifices are her hands and feet].
   

I am posting this now – but I have more of the auditory and fives senses from thre same Arya POV.

[ARYa_Nym]

Good posts Dark Heart and evita. Arya's story definitely has the rule of 3 in it.

Evita you found more evidence to what I was saying about Arya and the kings of winter.

More on her future but Illyrio said that Varys used to prowl the rooftops like a cat. Arya did that while warging so there's another thing she has in common with him. Dany also mentioned Illyrio having cats on his property.

I've theorized before that it was significant that Arya saw the convo b/w Varys and Illyrio in AGoT. She also is learning the language of Pentos and Dany may need to get it for the Tattered Prince.

[evita mgfs]

I am adding to my list of sensory details in Arya’s POV. Harrenhal is a place filled with SOUNDS: shouting, screaming, pleading, ringing, hissing, silenth, whispering, etc. And verbs like hear, listen, say, speak, and so on. PLUS all the references to mouths, lips, teeth, ears, and so on – all nouns that associate themselves with the AUDITORY senses.

1. “Quiet as a shadow” – (679).
   
2. Arya hears “the ring of a hammer” (679).
   
3. “Gendry was beating out a breast plate” (679).
   
4. Vargo Hoat says, “Silenth!” (678).
   
5. The breast plate hissed like a snake (678).
   
6. Arya slithered through a window (678).
   
7. Gendry asks Arya, “What was all that noise?” (680).
   
8. “Arya chewed her lip” (680).
   
9. Gendry asks Arya, “Why should I wager my feet for the chance to sweat in Winterfell in place of Harrenhal” (681).
   
10. Gendry says, “A sword’s a sword” (681). [Gendry is a pragmatic thinker: Arya states that if you reach into the fire, you get burned (681).
    
11. Arya observes the first of the prisoners “By his bearing, he must have been a lord” (676). [Arya connects the “lord look” with both Tywin Lannister and her father].
    
12. “The noise brought Ser Amory Lorch out onto the covered gallery above the ward” (676).
    
13. “Arya never actually knew him [Pinkeye] to hit. Still, it would be easier if he never saw her” (678).
    
14. “Wanting to be out of sight” (678).
    
15. Arya tells Gendry, “You are somebody”” (681). [Which opposes being NO ONE]?
    
16. “She liked the sharp smell of the pines and sentinels, the feel of grass and between her toes, and the sound the wind made in the leaves” (681).
    
17. “The squeak of bats as they hunted” (683).
    
18. “She prayed silently” (683).
    
19. Maybe she should pray aloud if she wanted the old gods to hear (683).
    
20. “Jaqen H’ghar stood still in the darkness that he seemed one of the trees. “A man comes to hear a name” (684).
    
21. “A man sees. A man hears. A man knows” (684).
    
22. “Had the old gods sent him? ‘How’d you make the dog kill Weese? Did you call Rorge and Biter up from hell? Is Jaqen H’ghar your true name?’”
    
23. “Some men have many names. Weasel. Arry. Arya” (684).
    
24. “Maybe the old gods had sent him in answer to her prayers” (684).
    
25. “His voice was silk and steel” (684).
    
26. “Can I name anyone? And you’d kill him?” (684).
    
27. “Speak the name and death will come” (685).
    
28. “A girl whispers, if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now . . .” (685).
    
29. Arya put her lips to Jaqen’s ear, “It’s Jaqen H’ghar” (685).
    
30. “A girl . . . she makes a jest” (685).
    
31. “You swore. The gods heard you swear.”
    

Jaqen responds, “The gods did hear” (685).

“A girl might. . . name another name then, if a friend did help” (685).

1. “Across the ward, light spilled through the door of the Barracks Hall, accompanied by the clatter of tankards and men calling for more wine” (686).
   
2. “A dozen voices took up in a guttural tongue strange to Arya’s ears” (686).
   
3. “The noise they were making would be a good distraction” (686).
   
4. “Sweet girl, kind and gentle. Unsay one name and say another and ease this mad dream aside” (686).
   
5. Jaqen says, “A man has no time for talk” (686).
   
6. “A girl must run back to the kitchens and tell her pie boy” (686).
   
7. “Broth,” she repeated (686).
   
8. “Pia was awake in the loft, moaning under one of the Mummers, but she slipped back into her clothes quick enough when she heard Arya shout” (687).
   
9. “Then she heard the ugly sound of Rorge’s voice. “Cook,” he shouted. “We’ll take your bloody broth” (687)
   

More will come in my next post . . .

[Quiet Isle]

I believe Arya will NOT become a faceless man, she will never give up "Arya", Winterfell, or Needle. With that being said I do believe he training will be of use in the north, perhaps to take back Winterfell? The Ghost of Harennhal was Jaquin, perhaps that was foreshadowing for Arya becoming the Ghost of Winterfell.

Elio and Linda (creators of westeros.org) have indicated that the Ghost of Harrenhall is the Woods Witch that came to Court with Jenny of Oldstones. She even calls for her "Jenny". and it is speculated that the Woods Witch may be the daughter of Bloodraven and a COTF. she is dwarfen, twisted, and ALBINO.Jenny, better known as Jenny of Oldstones is a character from a song. She wove flowers in her hair and her lover was the Prince of Dragonflies. Prince Duncan fell in love with a woman known as Jenny of Oldstones and loved her so much he gave up his crown for her and married her against his father's wishes. It was possible that after this he became known as the Prince of Dragonflies. He died in the Tragedy at Summerhall Prince Duncan Targaryen loved her so much he gave up his crown for her. She was friends with a woods witch who prophesied that the Prince That Was Promised would be born from the line of Prince Aerys and Princess Rhaella. When Aegon V heard the prophecy he arranged the marriage between the two. So if the WW is the ghost of Harrenhall, and the daughter of Bloodraven and a female COTF, then she is probably communicating with him and also potentially assisting him in maneuvers above the ground.

[Alia of the knife]

Elio and Linda (creators of westeros.org) have indicated that the Ghost of Harrenhall is the Woods Witch that came to Court with Jenny of Oldstones. She even calls for her "Jenny". and it is speculated that the Woods Witch may be the daughter of Bloodraven and a COTF. she is dwarfen, twisted, and ALBINO.Jenny, better known as Jenny of Oldstones is a character from a song. She wove flowers in her hair and her lover was the Prince of Dragonflies. Prince Duncan fell in love with a woman known as Jenny of Oldstones and loved her so much he gave up his crown for her and married her against his father's wishes. It was possible that after this he became known as the Prince of Dragonflies. He died in the Tragedy at Summerhall Prince Duncan Targaryen loved her so much he gave up his crown for her. She was friends with a woods witch who prophesied that the Prince That Was Promised would be born from the line of Prince Aerys and Princess Rhaella. When Aegon V heard the prophecy he arranged the marriage between the two. So if the WW is the ghost of Harrenhall, and the daughter of Bloodraven and a female COTF, then she is probably communicating with him and also potentially assisting him in maneuvers above the ground.

I had wondered if BR himself left any offspring.

[evita mgfs]

1. “I [Arya] never told him [Jaqen} to bring them [biter and Rorge]” (687).

2. “Shut your hole . . . I said broth and I said now” (688).

3. “Hissing, Biter grabbed a handful of half-charred rabbit . . . and tore into it with his pointed teeth” (688).

4. “Biter licked the grease and honey off his fingers” (688).

5. “Biter grabbed two more [pots of soup], hissing in pain when the handles burned his hands” (688).

6. A guard says, “No one said anything about that [weasel soup]’ Arya cut him off” (688).

7. “Arya counted eight guards” (688).

8. “The rest were screaming in agony, praying, or trying to crawl off” (689).

9. “They went swiftly, and with scarcely a word” (689).

10. “Biter sat on top of one of the dead men, holding a limp hand as he gnawed at the fingers. Bones cracked beneath his teeth” (690)

11. “She did not want her name said here, where Rorge and Biter may hear . . .” (690).

12. “The door at the Barracks Hall burst open and a wounded man staggered out screaming” (690).

13. Three others ran after him and silenced him with a spear and a sword” (690).

14. Jaqen says, “But first a man would have a certain name unsaid” (690).

15. “I’ll take back the name” (690).

16. “A strange smile touched the lips of Jaqen H’ghar” (690).

17. “But I unsaid the name” (690).

18. “Arya’s mouth hung opened. ‘Who are you?’ she whispered, too astonished to be afraid” (690).

19. “He grinned, revealing a shiny gold tooth. ‘No harder than taking a new name, if you know the way’” (691).

20. Arya bit it [the coin]” (691).

21. “As well ask what good is life, what good is death? If the day comes when you would find me again, give this coin to any man in Braavos, and say these words to him – Valar Morgholus” (691).

22. “Valar Morgholus,” Arya repeated (691).

23. Across the yard, she could hear men dying” (692).

24. “Jaqen is as dead as Arry,” he said softly, “and I have promises to keep. Valar Morghulis, Arya Stark. Say it again” (692).

25. “Valar Morghulis,” she said once more” (692).

26. “She whispered her names to her pillow, and when she was done, she added, “Valar Morghulis” in a small voice, wondering what it meant” (692).

27. Pinkeye complaining (692).

28. “He looked at Arya when he said that, but never said another word to her about where she had been that night” (692).

29. “Shagwell the Fool hacked the heads off two dead knights and pranced around the castle swinging hem by the hair and making them talk. ‘What did you die of?’ One head asked. ‘Hot weasel soup,’ replied the second” (692).

30. “No one said a word to her beyond usual, but every so often she would notice people looking at her” (692).

One more post on the auditory coming to complete this POV . . .

[evita mgfs]

1. “Robert Glover and the other men they’d freed must have talked about what happened down in the dungeon, and Shagwell and his stupid talking heads started in about the stupid weasel soup. She should have told him to shut up, but she was too scared to” (693).
   
2. “The fool was half mad, and she’d heard that once killed a man for not laughing at one of his japes. He better keep his mouth shut or I’ll put him on my list with the rest . . .” (693).
   
3. “On your knees for the Lord of the Dreadfort!” shouted his squire, a boy no older than Arya and Harrenhal knelt” (693).
   
4. “The lord gave answer but too softly Arya did not hear” (693).
   
5. “Arya heard the harsh sound of Rorge’s voice, bit not what he was saying” (693).
   
6. “My lord, my lord,” he sang, tugging at her wrist, “here’s the weasel who made the soup!” (693).
   
7. “A thin smile twitched across his lips. “But not lions, it would seem. Nor manticores” (694).
   
8. “She did not know what to say to that, so she said nothing” (694).
   
9. “They tell me you are called Weasel. That will not serve. What name did your mother give you?” (694).
   
10. “She bit her lip, groping for another name. Lommy had called her Lumpyhead, Sansa used Horseface, and her father’s men once dubbed her Arya Underfoot, but she did not think any of those were the sort of name he wanted” (694).
    
11. “You will call me my lord when you speak to me, Nan,” the lord said mildly.
    
12. “This time she knew better than to say that she’d sooner work in the stables, ‘Yes, your lord. I mean, my lord’” (694).
    
13. “The lord waved a hand, “Make her presentable,” he said to NO ONE in particular, “and make certain she knows how to pour wine without spilling it” (694).
    
14. “Ser Amory pleaded and sobbed and clung to the kegs if his captors . . .” (695).
    

[Quiet Isle]

I had wondered if BR himself left any offspring.

not too many albinos in this game. BR and WW. and COTF are not human. so the joining of BR AND A COTF might result in a misshapen child - with a mission.

[Dark Heart]

I had wondered if BR himself left any offspring.

Wow, that's a interesting idea.

Just think what kind of powers would his and Shiera Seastar (love of his life) kid have.

[Quiet Isle]

Wow, that's a interesting idea.

Just think what kind of powers would his and Shiera Seastar (love of his life) kid have.

you did not read the post i posted before. it was bloodraven and a COTF union that resulted in the Woods Witch, who made the targ king change his mind about who to marry his children to. see above. it's speculation, but one that Linda and Elio have really thought about.

[Dark Heart]

you did not read the post i posted before. it was bloodraven and a COTF union that resulted in the Woods Witch, who made the targ king change his mind about who to marry his children to. see above. it's speculation, but one that Linda and Elio have really thought about.

Oh,I did. I'm just not sure I'd buy that theory.

First she's the Ghost of the High Heart not Harrenhall.

I'm not sure CotF and humans hybrids are possible.

And Barristan thinks of Woods Witch as "old" even when she made the prophecy.

That's why I think timeline doesn't work.

In "The Mystery Knight" BR is older then the last time Egg have seen them but not descried as old.

So, why would his daughter be seen as old once she meets King Egg?

Yeah, year would have passed but would it be enough?

And BR loved Shiera Seastar and asked her to be his wife. So, I just don't see him . .. experimenting with CofF.

[evita mgfs]

Elio and Linda (creators of westeros.org) have indicated that the Ghost of Harrenhall is the Woods Witch that came to Court with Jenny of Oldstones. She even calls for her "Jenny". and it is speculated that the Woods Witch may be the daughter of Bloodraven and a COTF. she is dwarfen, twisted, and ALBINO.Jenny, better known as Jenny of Oldstones is a character from a song. She wove flowers in her hair and her lover was the Prince of Dragonflies. Prince Duncan fell in love with a woman known as Jenny of Oldstones and loved her so much he gave up his crown for her and married her against his father's wishes. It was possible that after this he became known as the Prince of Dragonflies. He died in the Tragedy at Summerhall Prince Duncan Targaryen loved her so much he gave up his crown for her. She was friends with a woods witch who prophesied that the Prince That Was Promised would be born from the line of Prince Aerys and Princess Rhaella. When Aegon V heard the prophecy he arranged the marriage between the two. So if the WW is the ghost of Harrenhall, and the daughter of Bloodraven and a female COTF, then she is probably communicating with him and also potentially assisting him in maneuvers above the ground.

:bowdown: :bowdown: RAGNORAK: Thank you so much for that great and informative post. I learned a lot. I was not familiar with the link between the Woodswitch, Jenny, Duncan, and so on. I learn so much from the posters here.

Do you believe the direwolves are all agents of the old gods? or earth, roots of trees, etc?

[Alia of the knife]

not too many albinos in this game. BR and WW. and COTF are not human. so the joining of BR AND A COTF might result in a misshapen child - with a mission.

Which also leads me back to my own suspicion about the Targs. and the Starks, and if there was a forbidden element to any union between them due to the type of powerful offspring they would produce.

(The Targs. actually didn't practice as much incest as one thinks. Awhile back someone did a breakdown of the Targ. family tree, and they took not only Martells for wives, but the House that Aurane came from gave them three Queens, as well as a Hightower, so the idea that they may eventually look to the far North for a possible wife, especially a daughter of the Warden, would not be ouside the realm of possibility).

I don't know if the Targs., as Valryians, or the CotF with perhaps a connection to the Starks, would want such a union.

The Targaryens, by word of the original Sorcerers that came with them may have instilled something "unclean" about taking a Northerner for a spouse, man or woman, and dragons blood must NEVER mix with the First Men.

However, BR fell out of favor in KL and went North, he may have turned his back on his Targaryen side, especially since he had fought so hard for them, and embraced his Mothers religion, who prayed to the old gods.

The CotF, after having been pushed further out of their lands and environment may have wanted retribution, but since the Starks and other Northerners worshiped the same gods, they lived in an uneasy harmony, but I doubt they wanted their "human" children to mix with a people like the Valryians knowing their blood mixed with the Starks would make them more powerful, and perhaps to them, and abomination.

The BR/WW connection might have been trying to sabotage the Targaryens, but Jenny/Duncan, Summerhall, and Rhaegar/Lyanna happened.

After that, the "mission" may have been about salvage and control.

(Of course, going back to my "Dune" references, the same thing happened with Paul Muadib- on one hand, he was the fulfillment of prophesy, but on the other, to the ones trying manipulate the bloodlines of the Houses, he was an abomination).

The same might be said of Jon.

[evita mgfs]

Oh,I did. I'm just not sure I'd buy that theory.

First she's the Ghost of the High Heart not Harrenhall.

I'm not sure CotF and humans hybrids are possible.

And Barristan thinks of Woods Witch as "old" even when she made the prophecy.

That's why I think timeline doesn't work.

In "The Mystery Knight" BR is older then the last time Egg have seen them but not descried as old.

So, why would his daughter be seen as old once she meets King Egg?

Yeah, year would have passed but would it be enough?

And BR loved Shiera Seastar and asked her to be his wife. So, I just don't see him . .. experimenting with CofF.

:bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART: Another good post. Very informative. Now I am confused again about this wood witch. I guess I will have to wait to get the Mystery Knight, unless you know where I can find it for a reasonable price?

All the searches I have done has the book for sale used, but really over-priced. It must be a collector's item. :dunno:

I read the other Dunk and Egg stories

[Quiet Isle]

Oh,I did. I'm just not sure I'd buy that theory.

First she's the Ghost of the High Heart not Harrenhall.

I'm not sure CotF and humans hybrids are possible.

And Barristan thinks of Woods Witch as "old" even when she made the prophecy.

That's why I think timeline doesn't work.

In "The Mystery Knight" BR is older then the last time Egg have seen them but not descried as old.

So, why would his daughter be seen as old once she meets King Egg?

Yeah, year would have passed but would it be enough?

And BR loved Shiera Seastar and asked her to be his wife. So, I just don't see him . .. experimenting with CofF.

well, I didn't come up with the theory. the creators of this entire website did. and Sheira seastar: two theories - she may be quaithe. or septa lemore may be quaithe. and dragons apparently bred with humans - and i think it was the Fire others, the female counterpart of the male ice Others. and that's why they call themselves Dragons. because i think all of these thinking creatures are evolutionarily related and humanoid. there are no gods in this world. only "lesser" or "less knowledgeable" humans who deify things they cannot explain. Grrm is an atheist. no gods in this world. but MAGIC? oh yes. but if you are an atheist, RELIGION is magical thinking. we'll see.

[evita mgfs]

Which also leads me back to my own suspicion about the Targs. and the Starks, and if there was a forbidden element to any union between them due to the type of powerful offspring they would produce.

(The Targs. actually didn't practice as much incest as one thinks. Awhile back someone did a breakdown of the Targ. family tree, and they took not only Martells for wives, but the House that Aurane came from gave them three Queens, as well as a Hightower, so the idea that they may eventually look to the far North for a possible wife, especially a daughter of the Warden, would not be ouside the realm of possibility).

I don't know if the Targs., as Valryians, or the CotF with perhaps a connection to the Starks would want such a union.

The Targaryens, by word of the original Sorcerers that came with them may have instilled something "unclean" about taking a Northerner for a spouse, man or woman, and dragons blood must NEVER mix with the First Men.

However, BR fell out of favor in KL and went North, he may have turned his back on his Targaryen side, especially since he had fought so hard for them, and embraced his Mothers religion, who prayed to the old gods.

The CotF, after having been pushed further out of their lands and environment may have wanted retribution, but since the Starks and other Northerners worshiped the same gods, they lived in an uneasy harmony, but I doubt they wanted their "human" children to mix with a people like the Valryians knowing their blood mixed with the Starks would make them more powerful, and perhaps to them, and abomination.

The BR/WW connection might have been trying to sabotage the Targaryens, and then Jenny/Duncan, Summerhall and then Rhaegar/Lyanna happened. After that, the "mission" may have been about salvage and control.

(Of course, going back to my "Dune" references, the same thing happened with Paul Muadib- on one hand, he was the fulfillment of prophesy, but on the other, to the ones trying manipulate the bloodlines of the Houses, he was an abomination).

The same might be said of Jon.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART: I love this analysis. I am going toPM Kiss'dbyfire, because she would want to read your theory about the CotF, especially the ideas about the First Men and mingling of Targ blood. She is also a big BR fan

[Alia of the knife]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART: I love this analysis. I am going toPM Kiss'dbyfire, because she would want to read your theory about the CotF, especially the ideas about the First Men and mingling of Targ blood. She is also a big BR fan

Oh, Kiss'dbyfire knows my theory, lol, though it's been awhile since we discussed it, AND, she knows my "Dune" references and why my cat Duncan, sadly has his name. :laugh:

[Dark Heart]

snip

Could it be another "gray rats conspiracy"?

They hate and want to destroy magic. So, I doubt they would like a first man, blood of north / Targ, blood of dragons kids running around.

Barbrey Dustin rants about them arranging marriages so they could be responsible for lack of Stark/North brides.

Hm, it could also explain why there was no maester in the Tower of Joy.

I doubt that Rhaegar or Sword of Morning couldn't find one. If you are guarding a pregnant women it would be natural to find a maester to take care of her and the baby.

But if Rhaegar had reason to suspect that R+L kid would be killed by citadel?

Then it makes more sense.

:bowdown: :bowdown: DARK HEART: Another good post. Very informative. Now I am confused again about this wood witch. I guess I will have to wait to get the Mystery Knight, unless you know where I can find it for a reasonable price?

All the searches I have done has the book for sale used, but really over-priced. It must be a collector's item. :dunno:

I read the other Dunk and Egg stories

Sorry, I bought my "Warriors" book in Germany.

So, I'm no help at all.

well, I didn't come up with the theory. the creators of this entire website did. and Sheira seastar: two theories - she may be quaithe. or septa lemore may be quaithe. and dragons apparently bred with humans - and i think it was the Fire others, the female counterpart of the male ice Others. and that's why they call themselves Dragons. because i think all of these thinking creatures are evolutionarily related and humanoid. there are no gods in this world. only "lesser" or "less knowledgeable" humans who deify things they cannot explain. Grrm is an atheist. no gods in this world. but MAGIC? oh yes. but if you are an atheist, RELIGION is magical thinking. we'll see.

I'm just saying it's not working for me regardless of who came up with it. ;)

Read that theories about Shiera Seastar before. And they are interesting.

Uh, fire other and breeding with dragons? :stunned:

I haven't sen that.

The "dragon blood" thing is (IMO) the same as "wolf's blood".

Just because some Starks have it doesn't mean the Kings of Winter have breed with wolves