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Theon/Asha question (Spoilers)


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#1 StannisisaBAMF

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

so I read the WoW Theon chapter, what i'm trying to figure out is, whats Ashas motivation to have Stannis execute theon in front of a heart tree. Whats her reasoning?

Is it purely out of sympathy for her bro? like a mercy killing and being beheaded is better than burning to death? IDK if theres more there or not.

#2 Imjustababydirewolf

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

I think it is as simple as she does not want her brother given to the Red God and really nothing more (but it is Martin so who knows). Asha has repeatedly commented on the burning deaths, and specifically how she would not want such a death for herself (so I would think she would feel the same about her brother). While the Old Gods are not her God, she probably thinks that she has the best shot of having a quick, clean death for Theon by approaching Stannis from the POV of appeasing the northernmen (plus, they are nowhere near the sea).

#3 Quint

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:31 AM

During the chapter the Crows in the room are talking more than usual. Some theories suggest it could be Bran/Bloodraven influencing Asha to bring Theon to the Heart tree for some pretext. It could be to communicate a message to Stannis or Asha or even some last words for Theon.

Edited by Quint, 12 December 2012 - 02:31 AM.


#4 ab aeterno

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

Yeah, supernatural reasons aside, I think Asha's biggest issue is burning vs beheading.

#5 Runaway Penguin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

Beheading beats burning as long as the sword is sharp and the beheader doesn't botch it... (Theon seemed to botch it in the series).

#6 StannisisaBAMF

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

I think it is as simple as she does not want her brother given to the Red God and really nothing more (but it is Martin so who knows). Asha has repeatedly commented on the burning deaths, and specifically how she would not want such a death for herself (so I would think she would feel the same about her brother). While the Old Gods are not her God, she probably thinks that she has the best shot of having a quick, clean death for Theon by approaching Stannis from the POV of appeasing the northernmen (plus, they are nowhere near the sea).


Ah yea, I was leaning this way, I'm always super suspicious now for everything thats seems a little off.

#7 The Red Hand

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

Ashas stubborn. I think she still has a plan to somehow use Theon in a new kingsmoot. Maybe she has some kind of plan to rescue him, though if she does it's probably doomed. And whatever plan Bran/BR have I doubt Asha is a part of it.

#8 Lion of Judah

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

When I first read this I thought there was something Bran wanted to say to Stannis or Theon. It maybe that its a coincidence with Asha insisting that Theon be taken to the weirwood, but Bran may have found some way to communicate with her.

#9 Suzymofo

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

Perhaps there are reasons for it that we can't yet see. Maybe Martin needs to create an out for Theon, and Asha's request for a beheading plays into it somehow. We shall see.
As far as her personal motivations go, however, I do think it's as simple as her being a true, ironborn woman and not wanting to see her brother sacrificed to what she sees as a false idol.
But that girl is cunning occasionally, maybe she's got something up her sleeve.

#10 addicted to snow

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

I agree with other posters that Asha doesn't want to see Theon burn. She has already seen three men sacrificed to the Red God & would rather Theon have a cleaner death.
--
I think that Bran wants to tell Theon about the secret passage into Winterfell that Bran describes in his 2nd or 3rd chapter in A Game of Thrones... Theon will Then be able to guide a group of Stannis' men into Winterfell to open the gates...

#11 sumant30

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

When I first read this I thought there was something Bran wanted to say to Stannis or Theon. It maybe that its a coincidence with Asha insisting that Theon be taken to the weirwood, but Bran may have found some way to communicate with her.


How can bran communicate with asha?

#12 The Mountain That Flies

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:25 AM

It's also sound strategic advice to give Theon to the Old Gods to secure the loyalty of the Northerners. At this point Asha is Stannis' captive, and she's smart enough to try and be helpful to make her existence easier.

How can bran communicate with asha?


The crows? Asha's not the most superstitious person, but even she couldn't ignore a bunch of birds talking to her.

#13 ab aeterno

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:50 AM

How can bran communicate with asha?


The crows and the weirwoods are the usually speculated solutions.

#14 ross1983

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

Maybe BR/bran can communicate with her through her dreams. Like BR did with bran when he was in winterfell. I know it's not the clearest way to get ur point across but maybe it could have influenced asha in some way. Triggered something in her subconscious.?

#15 ross1983

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:22 AM

I posted this in another topic but never got a response. It's prob a little crackpot but just an idea.

At the end of brans last adwd chapter he saw into the past. He saw the man sacrificed and could taste the blood. Could it be possible, that when the roots of the weirwood absorb the blood, they also absorb the persons spirit/ knowledge? Similar to how the cotf

#16 ross1983

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:26 AM

Go into the weirwood when they die?

Maybe that could be the reason BR and bran possibly want theon sacrificed at the weirwood. They can learn what he knows and has seen. And bran being kind like he is, knows a part of theon will live on with the trees.

#17 ab aeterno

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

I posted this in another topic but never got a response. It's prob a little crackpot but just an idea.

At the end of brans last adwd chapter he saw into the past. He saw the man sacrificed and could taste the blood. Could it be possible, that when the roots of the weirwood absorb the blood, they also absorb the persons spirit/ knowledge? Similar to how the cotf

Go into the weirwood when they die?

Maybe that could be the reason BR and bran possibly want theon sacrificed at the weirwood. They can learn what he knows and has seen. And bran being kind like he is, knows a part of theon will live on with the trees.


It's not so crackpot that I haven't seen it before. This sort of thing has been speculated but I'm not sure how likely it is or what direction to point you in. Just check threads about the Gift Chapter. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#18 bemused

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:56 AM

I don't think the ravens have been near Asha , and I doubt she's made a second trip out to the weirwood ( which she found unsettling ) ... not in the hours that Stannis has had Theon in the watchtower. So Bran probably hasn't had a chance to try reaching her. What she could easily have done though , is talk to Alysanne Mormont, or even /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> the gentlemanly Wull , e.g. ..They could tell her the form for trials and / or executions in the North. ( And we know , from Ned's example with the deserter, that the condemned are given a chance to speak ...unlike the victims of the burnings we've seen.)

I agree that the foremost thing on her mind would be to win Theon a beheading over burning. And though she may have had some ideas about a new Kingsmoot , she probably thinks those have flown out the window , now.

As for Stannis , he assumes the northmen want Theon's head ( but he hasn't actually spoken to them yet. ) He knows they wouldn't want Theon given as a burnt offering to R'Hllor , though.

But the wild card is probably the Northmen themselves.I believe there's a good chance that their leaders , at least , know that Bran and Rickon survived WF, as they possibly know that Ramsay was the one who sacked it. So , even if they don't want Theon's death in payment for the boys', they might want to get Theon in front of the tree to try to get some truth out of him.They wouldn't have told Asha , but might have encouraged her to think that going to the tree was the best she could hope for.

Of course, this all depends on how much communication there has been between the mountain clans , and how much between them and the other northern lords. We don't know yet, but I think there's enough to be found in up to and including ADWD , to suspect there's been more communication than has been apparent on the surface.

Edited by bemused, 29 December 2012 - 03:02 AM.


#19 redriver

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:13 AM

The most likely candidate to know about the boy's survival is Morgan Liddle.He is leading the Liddle forces in the Stannis army and is the son of the Liddle Bran and the Reeds met heading north.

Morgan also captured Asha at Deepwood Motte,but later apologized for calling her rude names.

Perhaps they've had more dialogue off page?

#20 bemused

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:54 AM

oops! So it's a gentlemanly Liddle../biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

..and I forgot where I was and didn't need those spoiler tags.. think I'll go back and remove them ..still a bit of residual holiday fog , here./wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />